You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.19 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » a new dimension to naval warfare
Bottom
Topic Subject:a new dimension to naval warfare
aomok_go
Skirmisher
posted 03-24-03 12:27 PM EDT (US)         
This might be a good idea to add some power to the naval warfare of AOM: garrisoning inside a ship. I'll explain it:

SIEGE SHIPS: Ballistae, Petroboloi', Catapults, Helepoli, and Siege Towers can garrison inside Siege Ships.
effect: the garrisoned units shoot their own weapons in addition to other units but with lesser affect then normal. for example: if you garrison a petrobolos the siege ship would shoot his own 3 Ballista arrows AND the 3 Petrobolos stone. you can only garrison 2 siege units in a boat and no myth units

ARROW SHIPS: Toxotes, Gastraphetes, Slingers Throwing Axemen can be garrisoned inside siege ships.
effect: the garrisoned units fire their own missiles at enemy units with the SAME effect as they normally would. so if you have Kebenit and garrison slingers inside it would shoot slinger stones and arrows. You can garrison 5 units in a arrow ship.

HAMMER SHIPS: Portable Rams can be garrisoned inside Hammer Ships.
effect: add great damage to the Hammer Ship. the ram is attached to the front of the boat or at the sides or at the back and attacks enemy ships. you can garrison 4 portable rams inside a Hammer Ship and no Myth units.

Special: THE ARGO: the Poseidon Argo can also garrison , but it garrisons only one unit: Hippolyta.
effect: increases attack vs Myth Units.

How does that sound?

AuthorReplies:
Diex_Aye
Skirmisher
posted 03-24-03 02:32 PM EDT (US)     1 / 19       
All the kinds of heroes can garrison in Argo. But Siege Weapons could not be boarded in ships. When the Achains landed in Troy they tried to climb the walls and batter the crenellations with piercing weapons like spears. But the result was to loose nearly the entire 1st wave of attackers(about 20 as Aristophanes sais in one of his comedies) and withdraw to the beach.

The horn of Hel Hammerhand shall sound in the deep. One last time... Great deeds awake!!! Now for wrath, now for ruin and the Red dawn!!! Forth Eolingas!!!
aomok_go
Skirmisher
posted 03-25-03 04:05 AM EDT (US)     2 / 19       
How would the other heroes then attack from the ship? um, perhaps the siede tower is a bit to big for garrisoning but it it more then normal to be garrisoning the other units. the ancient greeks used petroboloi in ships and ballista to.the Juggernaut unit is also a ship with a ballista on it, why not be able to garrison more?
Diex_Aye
Skirmisher
posted 03-25-03 06:44 AM EDT (US)     3 / 19       
Because of the heaviness.

The horn of Hel Hammerhand shall sound in the deep. One last time... Great deeds awake!!! Now for wrath, now for ruin and the Red dawn!!! Forth Eolingas!!!
aomok_go
Skirmisher
posted 03-25-03 10:26 AM EDT (US)     4 / 19       
ok Siege towers and Helepoli can't garrison and only 1 siege weapon can be garrisoned. this is possible because in ancient greece ships were developed that could carry up to 2 or more catapults and so + the crew. but do you think it would improve naval warfare?
DarkKnight_
Skirmisher
(id: PW_DarkKnight)
posted 03-25-03 11:05 AM EDT (US)     5 / 19       
Origninally you garrisoned units into ships, and then that ship became that type. Example, you could garrison archers into a ship and it would become an archer ship; or you could put siege units into a ship to make a siege ship.

But that was taken out a long time before release.


DK
AbaZaba
Skirmisher
posted 03-27-03 09:37 PM EDT (US)     6 / 19       
Yeah, I was just gonna say, wasn't that the original idea? But anyway there are a couple flaws to this that would have to smoothed over, but it would add some great depth to naval warfare. These flaws/complications/whatever are: it's pretty micromanagment intensive, as in one can't just make a ship, they have to load it too to stand a chance against an already organized navy; you have to sacrifice not only population spots for the ships, but also for the units on the ships; resources also would be strained from having to make the ship AND put more units on it which also cost resources; playing the rock-paper-scissors game is also a whole lot more complex now. If you have all arrow ships, for instance, who hypothetically lose to seige ships, which your enemy is now making, you'd have to completely shift your ENTIRE game plan to start making a different kind of ship to counter that. Again, an interesting idea at least to have a blank ship added to the tech tree, but defiantley has some issues to be delt with.
Jackothefinn
Skirmisher
posted 03-28-03 06:51 AM EDT (US)     7 / 19       
HEY! this was MY idea!!!! Read that aztec post (really long post, but interesting, please read it) and youll see i suggested this, but unique to the aztecs canoes >
aomok_go
Skirmisher
posted 03-28-03 10:12 AM EDT (US)     8 / 19       
OH, sorry about that. but my idea is a bit different: I guess noone really read or understood it correctly beacause what i was trying to say was NOT: take a blank ship, pu a ballista on it and it is a siege ship. what I meant was that you already have a trireme and if you garrison gastraphetes or toxotes or pelteats this would make them more powerful. NOT that a toxote is needed to make it an archer ship. if you garrison a toxote the ship will simply shoot more arrows and have an increased attack.

your post about the aztecs was GREAT btw. the first one I read that actually had some human soldiers in thm.

Diex_Aye
Skirmisher
posted 03-28-03 11:11 AM EDT (US)     9 / 19       
Ok you and your thread. Enough. We all know your glorious thread. I think that in hammer ships there should be infantry like boarding a ship (actually the Athenian way of boarding is quite different than the common one. See what i mean in the PS).

P.S.

The Athenian Boarding:
Note: The "boarding" or "hammer" Greek ships were different than the AOM ones. Instead of having a hammer to fall from a certain height, it was attached to the bilge of the ship.

Step1 - Anastrophe (maneuvre) to the enemy
Step2 - Oar speed increase to 50% (not that it could be that accurate)
Step3(optional) - firing flamming arrows at the enemy ship
Step4 - Embolee (strike) the enemy ship with the head of the ship
Step5 - Disambark to the enemy ship and start butchering
Step6 - Enflame the enemy ship and withdraw


The horn of Hel Hammerhand shall sound in the deep. One last time... Great deeds awake!!! Now for wrath, now for ruin and the Red dawn!!! Forth Eolingas!!!
aomok_go
Skirmisher
posted 03-28-03 11:48 AM EDT (US)     10 / 19       
did you mean my thread or his?
Jackothefinn
Skirmisher
posted 03-28-03 04:15 PM EDT (US)     11 / 19       
i just have to say sorry if i sounded a bit angry in my last post, i didnt mean too Thanks, i like ur idea too!

Diex; I know that the hammers (not really hammers, more pointy ends) on certain greek ships were just below the surface, so when they rammed a ship, it would begin to take in water and sink.
You, that know a lot about it, did they have certain ships that had those pointy things, or was it triremes?

Flames
Skirmisher
posted 03-28-03 04:46 PM EDT (US)     12 / 19       
aomok great idea!If their was a map in the x-pack that focused on naval battles this will be great!
DarkKnight_
Skirmisher
(id: PW_DarkKnight)
posted 03-28-03 05:21 PM EDT (US)     13 / 19       
I also like the idea very much. But I doubt it will go in, since it was already taken out

DK
Diex_Aye
Skirmisher
posted 03-29-03 07:15 AM EDT (US)     14 / 19       
Every military ship from Bronze age in Achaia and Ionia had submerge hammer. Triremes had hammers that were flatter at the point so the enemy ship will crash and not make a small hall like a drill. Pentekontes were smaller and couldn't carry such a hammer so the had wooden one. The wooden hammer used by the same way but still there was a problem: It was wooden!! So the oars in Pentekonters were increased to 25 each side (50 and so comes the name). The speed of a Pentekonters was terribly fast and finally became useful for boarding. Juggernauts (i don't think that's the name) were not actually in favor before the Romans. Achaia didn't had Juggernauts.

The horn of Hel Hammerhand shall sound in the deep. One last time... Great deeds awake!!! Now for wrath, now for ruin and the Red dawn!!! Forth Eolingas!!!
Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher
posted 03-30-03 10:17 AM EDT (US)     15 / 19       
Anyone else think the stats on the Argo are a bit weak? Plus, in its description it says it was the largest ship of its time... so why is it smaller than a Tri?
aomok_go
Skirmisher
posted 03-31-03 10:25 AM EDT (US)     16 / 19       
well I dont agree, but this topic, not that I want to sound angry, isnt about if the Argo is too small or not.
Diex_Aye
Skirmisher
posted 03-31-03 01:44 PM EDT (US)     17 / 19       
Argo wasn't the bigest ship of the time. It was the most powerful. It couldn't get fired or rot and it was faster than the common Triremes. That's from the "engineer" side of the ship.

Anyway i always hear words like: Possi, Villies, Eggys, Hipps, Eles or Phants and i am thinking: can't you write the names exactly as they are. You do this to the "Greek" names and you say "never mind" but you are insulting a language which survived 5000 years to present. And if you don't care at least respect the British language which is in the agony of death to your hands.


The horn of Hel Hammerhand shall sound in the deep. One last time... Great deeds awake!!! Now for wrath, now for ruin and the Red dawn!!! Forth Eolingas!!!
Mythos_Ruler
Skirmisher
posted 04-01-03 10:28 PM EDT (US)     18 / 19       
Well, why don't you agree? BTW - this topic has already been beaten to death. "Your" idea is too micro intensive, plus how are you going to manage the pop situation? Instead of 2 or 3 pop we'll have 5+ pop per ship (ship + catapult for example, or ship + 2 or more infantry units = very high pop).

The idea has been weighed, and it has been measured, and it has been found wanting -- even by ES.

Now if you really want to add another dimention to the navy, how about them merchant ships?

Yohan Hoogland
Skirmisher
posted 04-02-03 04:28 AM EDT (US)     19 / 19       
i think it`s a good idea, but thinking of ships with pop 5+ makes me feel sick. what will happen if your ship sinks? you lose all your units. i think you can use those units better in ground wars. than they have some purpose.
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames