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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » North American Mythology?
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Topic Subject:North American Mythology?
Macedonian234
Banned
posted 08-17-04 11:18 AM EDT (US)         
This would be a good idea if es introduced a native american mythology in the game.
ARCHAIC AGE

Civilian Unit: Workers- 50 food 65 hp- When hunting animals they do twice the amount of damage as a regular villager. Also structures buildings.

Temple: Can train spirit hawks in archaic. ( scouting birds with no attack)

Wampam: Supports 10 population.

I will shortly post up the other ages. I need to do some more research. Thank you!

AuthorReplies:
bobthedemon
Banned
posted 08-17-04 02:14 PM EDT (US)     1 / 13       
I thought of one. They can't advance out of archaic until someone takes over one of their town centres...
SilverOsirisAOM
Skirmisher
posted 08-17-04 03:51 PM EDT (US)     2 / 13       
I think their houses should only be 5 pop, that way theres more variety, its like the opposite of Attie. Also this should go in Future ES games forum.

I told you I'd be back.
Taredhel
Skirmisher
posted 08-18-04 06:56 PM EDT (US)     3 / 13       
"Wampam: Supports 10 population."

You mean 'wigwam'? iirc, 'wampum' was native american $$, made of colorful shells and whatnot.

crumpet05
Skirmisher
posted 08-18-04 10:43 PM EDT (US)     4 / 13       
bob's joke was midly humoring, this wouldnt actually be a bad idea really.
GoForGoldenJarls
Skirmisher
posted 08-18-04 11:28 PM EDT (US)     5 / 13       
Your gonna get flamed for posting a Native American civ, I guarantee it.

SilverOsirisAOM
Skirmisher
posted 08-19-04 00:29 AM EDT (US)     6 / 13       
Why?

I told you I'd be back.
GoForGoldenJarls
Skirmisher
posted 08-19-04 02:39 AM EDT (US)     7 / 13       
http://aom.heavengames.com/cgi-bin/forums/display.cgi?action=ct&f=17,19257,,all

I originally had a Sioux culture in there, and you can see what happened.


The mighty Quin
Skirmisher
posted 08-27-04 12:32 PM EDT (US)     8 / 13       
What about trying Aztecs? They could have very expensive very powerful myth units, like feathered serpents and whatnot.
Duskofdead
Skirmisher
posted 08-30-04 12:52 PM EDT (US)     9 / 13       
Argh! *Blood boils anew*

I remember posting in that ages ago, Golden Jarls. It was the 'previous discussion' I was referring to. You're right, Native Americans seem to be flamebait for some reason. And it's not just with AoM, someone proposed an American: Total War game that proposed all these Spanish/English/French/Native American units (colonial period) and it caused a similar backlash.

Don't you love all the double standards that get dredged up? A lot of people mentioned "no written history"... um... ok, that's a huge blanket statement. Many of them had written histories. All of them had histories, whether written or not, and why that should be a prerequisite for a new Age game is beyond me... Huns were illiterate. Goths were illiterate. Many others like Vikings and Celts were only semi-literate and not in the pendantic documentation way where you could really say that had "documented histories." We've seen both of them in Age games. Then people say "CIVILIZATIONS, please". Well, according to the academic definition of a civilization, even the smallest tribes fit. But apparently civilization takes on a subjective "civilizations as in cultures I think are worthy of the title" element in these discussions. Can't argue civilizations = empire because plenty of the Age of Kings/Conquerors civs never had real empires, or only did for short periods of time, or were borderline. You could argue many various NA societies did as well. (The South is obvious, but that is -only- because they still had intact "empires" as the west thought of them at the time Europeans arrived. Not having a huge empire at the moment you happened to step off the boat doesn't mean one was never there. Look up the Mississippi and Ohio River Valley mounds. They're not as visually impressive as Egypt's pyramids, but scholars agree it took massive, empire-size manpower to build. And also evidence around the sites indicate they were hubs of major cities. Similarly Anasazi ruins have the remains of roads running out from them in all directions... implying an empire or serious trading civilization.) The idea that "well, Europeans never fought any major unified Native American civ (except Aztec) so therefore any civ they had was unimportant" is just totally imperialist and arrogant. By that rationale China and Japan should never make it into any pre-WWII game, yet many games would be considerably poorer if they'd been left out.

And then there's that guy in the other thread who claimed to be Cherokee, but said that he felt NA stories aren't as complex, and that there was no written account until after the continent was discovered. Ok, sorry to be blunt here... the guy must be white with like 1/64th Cherokee blood to say something like "the continent wasn't discovered yet." You can't discover a continent that's already been inhabited for 20-60,000 years. (Well, you can discover it for "your people", but that's not the way it's ever stated. It's always implied the Americas didn't exist before Europeans deigned to grace them with their presence. And the way everyone acts like nothing of consequence ever happened in America until the colonial period backs up this observation.)

The fact that you run into this closed-mindedness about NA's implies two things to me,
1) Deep-rooted ignorance in most Westerners about NA's
2) An assumption that the ignorance is a fine basis for drawing blanket statements like "they were too simple", "they were primitive", blah blah, hinting at an assumption that NA's don't matter.

Personally I think the fact that they've been used so little has been to the detriment of strategy games. But I realize that's just opinion.

*rant off*

Zappos
Skirmisher
posted 08-30-04 01:01 PM EDT (US)     10 / 13       
Nice rant.

I agree though. There is a lot of richness in Native American culture to explore, and I don't think their effectiveness as warriors is really open to question...they did very well for themselves, despite being ravaged by disease, disorganized, and forced to deal with vastly superior technology.

Duskofdead
Skirmisher
posted 08-30-04 01:05 PM EDT (US)     11 / 13       
Exactly right. If I use the "Smallpox" god power on your civ and 90% of your units die, and then I come kill you, how much of a test of your military power was that? Heh

But people have a "what you see is what you get" attitude about NA's, in the sense that what European/American-written history shows is all there ever was.

Zappos
Skirmisher
posted 08-30-04 01:51 PM EDT (US)     12 / 13       
Indeed. And even with all their setbacks, it was still true for a very long time that the best way to fight Native Americans was to enlist the services of a rival tribe. I wonder if Europeon schools leave out these little facts. Like:

1. Cortez using the Aztec's enemies to help bring them down.

2. The extensive use(on both sides) of Native American tribes in the French/American and Revolutionary wars.

3. How long the Plain's Indians remained a very real threat, despite being badly hurt by the loss of their buffalo herds.

4. How quickly Native American tribes adapted to the use of both horses and guns in battle.

ect, ect..and that's not even delving into their history prior to the arrival of Europeans.

Duskofdead
Skirmisher
posted 08-30-04 01:56 PM EDT (US)     13 / 13       
Right again Zappos. Most people tend to view the hardy adaptability of NA peoples after the colonial period (guns, horses, loss of herds/land/food, disease) as BECAUSE of Western civilization (i.e., they saw and copied the benefits of the West like guns), but I see it as in SPITE of Western civilization (which was trying to wipe them out.)
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