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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » economic micro
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Topic Subject:economic micro
Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 05-29-05 03:24 PM EDT (US)         
Obviously the economical micro has been reduced.
Not 4 but 3 resources in this new age series.
No more drop off points for resources.
Market trade is replaced by trading with natives. These are neutral units so no worries about trading carts being killed.
Some civs with supervillies or other economical bonusses, wich means a villiecap, wich means less economical micro.
Mill giving 10 farms, and not building each farm seperately.

What do u guys think of this? Is this a step to make the game easier for non-RTSers?
Because most of my shooterfriends like Warcraft 3 more, because of the easy to handle economy.

I personally really liked the economical intensive micro in AoK. "Dont forget about the farms!" "oh no, villie died to boar".

Because AoM wasnt a real "age" game, my comparison only relates to AoK and expansion.

(im not english so sorry for grammatical errors in english)

AuthorReplies:
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-29-05 04:17 PM EDT (US)     1 / 23       
I wont start a discussion about aom.


1. there are four resourses, battle xp as fourth resourse
2. Farms wont be used much (slow)
3. Traderoutes are probably more micro then trade carts. Protecting is military, but same for protecting tradecarts
4.

Quote:

Is this a step to make the game easier for non-RTSers?

i dont think so and i hope not
5. In the beginning nuggets, also economy
6.

Quote:

wich means a villiecap, wich means less economical micro

can someone tell me why thats logical?
7. in AOC you allready had auto farms
Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 02:29 AM EDT (US)     2 / 23       
villiecap = less villies = less micro

but in AoC u had the flush and it was really hard to keep your economy solid and lead ur forces well. In other RTS's like WC3 its like 90% military focussing.

In the screenshots and movies i havent seen any economy, except for maybe 2 mills.

But yeah, forgot about the nuggets, the're gonna give some micro aswell.

schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 03:52 AM EDT (US)     3 / 23       
i understand why there are in screenshots not many villies. Not much too show, a villie thats is mining. Military units are more interesting
Alexandergreat3
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 04:03 AM EDT (US)     4 / 23       
Boar hunting in AoK was one of the most enjoyable part of managing the econ. When I first started out playing AoK, I knew right then that I can fool the boar by running my vil in circle and let the others shoot it .

Hunting in AoM was so boring.

beekay
Skirmisher
(id: black_knight_101)
posted 05-30-05 04:08 AM EDT (US)     5 / 23       

Quote:

1. there are four resourses, battle xp as fourth resourse

WTH is that? I assure you, experience is not a resource.

Quote:

2. Farms wont be used much (slow)

Believe it or not, they are actually more well-protected than hunters! *gasp*

Quote:

3. Traderoutes are probably more micro then trade carts. Protecting is military, but same for protecting tradecarts

*builds walls along trade route*

Quote:

5. In the beginning nuggets, also economy

Meaning you don't need to micro intensively (not a fan of that anyway...) because of the nuggets.

Quote:

can someone tell me why thats logical?

Because you can't let someone have a turbocharged eco, for balance's sake. Think 80 Atlantean vills from AoM. ATM, the cap is 25, and just as well.


sig
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 04:34 AM EDT (US)     6 / 23       
You can c battle XP as resourse

More protected but slower.

Quote:

builds walls along trade route*


that is indeed very easy in aok, but impossible in AOE3

Quote:

Meaning you don't need to micro intensively (not a fan of that anyway...) because of the nuggets


meaning more intensive micro because of the nuggets, you have to search them. \i dont see with it would be less micro :S

still dont know why a villie cap is less micro. I understand that you have less villies to worry about, but selectign 3 or 10 villies to chop wood isnt much difference.

beekay
Skirmisher
(id: black_knight_101)
posted 05-30-05 04:55 AM EDT (US)     7 / 23       

Quote:

You can c battle XP as resourse

More protected but slower.

...Sorry, I really can't understand what you're trying to say.

Quote:

that is indeed very easy in aok, but impossible in AOE3

*raised eyebrow*

It'll be just as easy to do so. Why would it be harder?

Quote:

meaning more intensive micro because of the nuggets, you have to search them. \i dont see with it would be less micro :S

You don't have to micro your villies as quickly, because the income from nuggets balances out lost income from lax micro.

Quote:

still dont know why a villie cap is less micro. I understand that you have less villies to worry about, but selectign 3 or 10 villies to chop wood isnt much difference.

Is it, or is it not, harder to keep track of 80 villagers than 20?


sig
MoNo Ager
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 05:26 AM EDT (US)     8 / 23       
i believe nuggets add to the micro as you have to balance out between searching for them and starting up your own proper economy
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 05:30 AM EDT (US)     9 / 23       
so because there arre nuggets you dont have to watch your economy :S

do you think its very usefull to make a wall along a traderoute, from one side of the map to the other? It is impossible to protect

beekay
Skirmisher
(id: black_knight_101)
posted 05-30-05 06:02 AM EDT (US)     10 / 23       
By the time they break through the walls, the trading cart will be gone. And before the next cart comes along, you'll have taken out the enemy with your own army and rebuilt the wall.

sig
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 06:51 AM EDT (US)     11 / 23       
If you are able to build a wall that large and defend it you allready won. And an enemy will only attack your tradepost
Spacemonk
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 07:23 AM EDT (US)     12 / 23       
nuggets are just small bonuses and they're probably not that much of them that it'll last past the 2nd age. so they don't really count imo.

about trading, you can't kill the trading carts cause there are none -_- only the one that's walking/riding along the tradingroute and that one is walkthroughable and can't be destroyed. The thing you'll be fighting for is trading posts. Apart from that it's something totally different then trading in other age games cause there you'd get gold. With the trading posts you can choose what you want to earn: gold, food, wood, xp.

Making 10 farms or just one mill isn't that much of a difference cause once you placed the farms wich is easy with shift, you don't have to look at them anyway, just replace them at the mill once in a while.

For getting gold you can now make plantages, I think they work about the same as farms. I'm not such a big fan of this but you can't have all can you?

Quote:

Boar hunting in AoK was one of the most enjoyable part of managing the econ. When I first started out playing AoK, I knew right then that I can fool the boar by running my vil in circle and let the others shoot it .

Hunting in AoM was so boring.

not sure cause I only played aok offline, but what I can remember there were deer and boars. Well deer seem to be the same as the deer-like animals in aom and boar in aok are comparable to ele's or rhino's in aom I think, cause they're both strong and attack your villies. Especially if you're hunting with just a few villies, like 6 to 8 you need to micro with hunting rhino's and ele's otherwise a villie will get killed. So even in aom there is walking circles with villies...

I agree that I don't like there being no more drop off points... too bad I just hope other things that need micro make up for it.

As for there being less villies...
First it's not for all the civs.
Second, from my experience with playing the atties in aom I found it a bit harder to balance out my eco in the early game cause I can only place the villies in 'groups of 3' (cause 1 attie vil was about the same as 3 normal ones), but later in the game it didn't matter that much.


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RiderOfEternity
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 08:17 AM EDT (US)     13 / 23       
Someone tell me where it says they've taken away Market trading!

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Thanatos
Skirmisher
(id: deathmaster666)
posted 05-30-05 08:45 AM EDT (US)     14 / 23       
There are four resources, but there are various sources. Gold and Silver mines, plantations and banks, management of home city economy. I feel there is nothing to worry about.

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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 09:20 AM EDT (US)     15 / 23       
@riderofethernity, i have no idea, but there just isnt market trading
ES_DeathShrimp
VIP
posted 05-30-05 10:04 AM EDT (US)     16 / 23       
There is Market trading one resource for another (selling Food for Coin), but there are not AOK-style trade routes where 50 carts zip back and forth between Markets.

I find there is plenty to do managing my economy. Even if it's late in the game and I'm farming a lot, I'm still spitting out Settlers or replacing those fallen in battle. New economic options come on line in later Ages, and there are always new TCs to construct.

You aren't spamming out dropsites late in the game, but realistically nobody did that in AOK either -- they used TCs. You still need TCs in AOE3 because they produce Settlers, provide pop, help to control territory, and serve as HC arrival points.

You aren't spamming out dropsites early in the game, which is different from AOK. However, in AOE3 you have so much to do early on (dealing with HC shipments, building Trading Posts, finding treasures, changing formation) that you likely wouldn't have the bandwidth anyway.

tumblingwall
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 10:54 AM EDT (US)     17 / 23       
Good! I was worried about wether or not we would be able to trade one resource for another, like we could in AoE1.

it also is good to hear that it still will require some micro skills.



^ very original and thought provoking statement ^
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 11:11 AM EDT (US)     18 / 23       
Well .. There is coin, wood, food, EXP, and population for resources (that's 5)

And don't mills build 8 farms? Either way I am sure that mills will be more expensive due to the fact that they auto-build farms for you. I don't know if it will be totally easier, but maybe different. It's to hard to assume too much too early.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Ajs77311
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 12:54 PM EDT (US)     19 / 23       

Quote:

You still need TCs in AOE3 because they ... serve as HC arrival points.

How will that work?
Will we be abel to set a "master" TC that receives the shipments or does it automaticly go to your first?

I should hope it's the first.


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[This message has been edited by Ajs77311 (edited 05-30-2005 @ 12:54 PM).]

Alexandergreat3
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-05 01:11 PM EDT (US)     20 / 23       

Quote:

How will that work?
Will we be abel to set a "master" TC that receives the shipments or does it automaticly go to your first?

Actually, it doesn't have to be set to any particular TCs.

It can be made so that the player can choose which TC to recieve the shipment by having a little "recieve shipment" icon when the TC is selected.

ES_DeathShrimp
VIP
posted 05-31-05 08:07 PM EDT (US)     21 / 23       
It goes to your first by default, but you can change where they arrive (and most of us do). There are other buildings besides TCs that can receive HC shipments too. One of the skills you have to master in the game is deciding where you want those shipments to arrive. It gives you the ability to get troops to different parts of the map, but once the units arrive, they can't quickly get back and forth.

What I mean is that if your Musketeers show up at a forward base, and then your ally gets attacked, those troops have a long march ahead of them. If you had a base near your ally, then you could have had the Musketeers show up there instead. What to do? What to do?

Spacemonk
Skirmisher
posted 05-31-05 08:48 PM EDT (US)     22 / 23       

Quote:

What to do? What to do?

Run! (to the gameshop and preorder aoe3 )


"Give me Age of Empires, sir, and you may keep your Warcraft."
Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 05-31-05 10:52 PM EDT (US)     23 / 23       
personlly this part of aoe3 is what im most worried about... economy is what makes it for me in the age of series and even tho they are saying u have other things to do i still like the good old fashion aok eco... i really would hate to see it go....

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