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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Shooting through walls confirmed
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Topic Subject:Shooting through walls confirmed
Horia
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 07:55 AM EDT (US)         

Quote:

<HG_Zen> wow ... Thanks ... Last question from Tribal_Chieftain: will you be able to shoot through walls other than palisides, or will you be able to unrealistically shoot through stone walls, on a related topic, what about units on walls? will this be considered in the future? Done.
<Bigdog> Yes, you will be able to bend the laws of the universe and shoot through walls. It's just more fun, in our opinion, to do it this way. Managing true LOS or fire lines is hard. ... RTS games have enough difficult micro already, etc. ... Guys on walls is perpetually on the list of things we want to do; we just always find other things to do instead

Please please please, I BEG of you make it so that artillery or musketeers or anything as such can fire through walls, It takes away from the game so much and reduced both the realism and tactical posibilities.

AuthorReplies:
OutlandishTeacup
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 08:23 AM EDT (US)     1 / 21       
I was also angry about this, but after playing the demo, it really doesn't bother me.

    
Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 08:25 AM EDT (US)     2 / 21       
Shooting through walls can't be changed now, its too late.
Horia
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 08:39 AM EDT (US)     3 / 21       
I know, but then they should get working on a patch right now.
thecheatrox880
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 09:54 AM EDT (US)     4 / 21       
Whats the point of walls if they can be shot through?
gorbag orc
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 09:57 AM EDT (US)     5 / 21       
I almost never build walls in the demo, that's the solution: don't build walls :P
The_Assimilator
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 10:06 AM EDT (US)     6 / 21       
I build walls to TRY and stop the spanish lancers getting through. Does't work though, they spam an army of them once a minute, the only chance i have is to move my econ to the island, I can't seem to get hold of the factory, it won't let me buy it, it says i either already have it (which i don't) or i don't meet the prereqs.
Innovan
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 10:16 AM EDT (US)     7 / 21       
This thread should be locked.

This topic is already better covered in another thread in this same forum. In particular, all the previous Age games allowed shooting through walls, and there are multiple cheats (like being able to repair walls from the other side and ignore being fired at) that happen when walls can't be shot through. And the designers themselves have stated in that other thread that they have written the line-of-sighte code and everything else possible to make walls work more realisticly --but that it didn't test as "fun" with actual players.

Finally it's been pointed out there just frankly isn't the cpu power necessary calculate all these line-of-sight problems fast for this many units yet. As multiprocessor systems become more common this may change. But until multi-core cpus, 64 bits and a version of Microsoft Vista that enables all this comes out and the cost of such a system drops below the $1000 range, there's not the install base size software manufactorers need to be profitable selling their product at only $50 a copy.

[This message has been edited by Innovan (edited 09-18-2005 @ 10:20 AM).]

Horia
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 11:23 AM EDT (US)     8 / 21       
If your computer can't calculate that, then your computer can't play Age Of Empires 3 at all.
Byzantine2793
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 01:39 PM EDT (US)     9 / 21       
ifr you couldnt shoot through walls, youi would spamw als so that the enemy can never atatck you, which is GAY!!!!!
orgasmofthemind
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 01:52 PM EDT (US)     10 / 21       
There are still PLENTY of strategies left for using walls even though they can be shot through. Obviously you haven't been using them efficiently if you think there are no tactics.
Swellick
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 02:19 PM EDT (US)     11 / 21       
Well... think about it... the idea of shooting through a wall really doesn't exist. It's simply a poor interpretation of soldiers getting ON the walls and shooting at ppl beyond and them shooting back. It really doesn't bother me at all. Walls are extreemly useful for stopping melee units. Also, it still servers as a barier... just put the wall out farther ie... a musketeer can only shoot 13 (not sure on this) so just put the wall 15 from the buildings. (duh)

Saddam Who's Insane
GoldenShadow
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 02:50 PM EDT (US)     12 / 21       
All infantry have about 6 siege range, which is when they throw those little torches, so just make your walls over 6 units away from your buildings. The great advantage is that even if your workers get fired at from outside of the wall, they can retreat and the enemy can not follow without breaching the wall first. so your economy is much safer. Plus, repairing walls is really easy now and cheap. just click on each wall section and hit the repair button and they regain full HP in seconds. As long as you have to standing army to destroy incoming artillery, you can turtle for a long time. The biggest threat however to a turtle are the big naval ships which can mortar your base from miles away.

I built a dock in one of the pond in the new england map and they could hit everything on the map from that position. I think turtling on a water map is a very bad idea.

Anyway, upgraded walls backed up with field cannons and culverins are nearly impossible to take out without some heavy artillery of your own. since your artillery has to roll into range and the enemy artillery is already set up, they would get the first shot, and upgraded culverins can take out a field cannon in one hit. The field cannons will destroy any infantry or cavbalry which approached the wall, and the inability to close to melee range due to the wall will get them slaughtered by cannon fire.

[This message has been edited by GoldenShadow (edited 09-18-2005 @ 02:51 PM).]

Timeless_OmO
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 02:52 PM EDT (US)     13 / 21       
Very good points, Golden.
Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 02:53 PM EDT (US)     14 / 21       

Quote:

If your computer can't calculate that, then your computer can't play Age Of Empires 3 at all.

Lol, someone clearly needs to do some programming. You do know the reason why the game slows down with a large amount of units is due to calculating the unit pathing for so many units?

More LOS calculations will slow the game down even more. Unless you plan to break into Intel and AMD and steal their prototype CPU's due to be released in a few years.

dwight500
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 05:23 PM EDT (US)     15 / 21       
Shooting through the walls (I mean stone walls) is a big mistake of ES, thatīs my opinion. Walls are now useful only for stopping enemy, but to protecting buldings and units are useless. But another problem is, that cannons and etc. can fire through the towers (which is built right behind the walls) too!!!

Just bad, bad, bad.:-(really BAD!

Psycho_pigeon
Banned
posted 09-18-05 05:30 PM EDT (US)     16 / 21       
I know dwight, I hate that aswell.
Matei
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 05:37 PM EDT (US)     17 / 21       
Just wondering, how did you deal with archers shooting over walls in AoM/AoK? Why wasn't it a problem then?

The defensive value of walls is that they keep units from walking through them and getting into your town. Just build your wall more than 10 yards away from your villagers/farms/etc and even ranged units won't be able to bother them. Isn't that all you really need?


Programmer on 0 A.D., author of Norse Wars, co-author of Fort Wars.
dwight500
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 05:47 PM EDT (US)     18 / 21       
heh, when the walls will built up far away from defensive buildings like a towers or fort, so this defensive buldings are useless, isnīt it? when will far away from the walls, who will defend the walls? only units and defensive buildings are useless, this is really stupid!!!
dwight500
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 05:49 PM EDT (US)     19 / 21       
and shooting over and through the walls are little bit different, heh?
Alexandergreat3
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 05:54 PM EDT (US)     20 / 21       

Quoted from Matei:

Just wondering, how did you deal with archers shooting over walls in AoM/AoK? Why wasn't it a problem then?

In AoE, isn't true that soldiers cannot walk on the farm? It didn't seem to be a "problem" in AoE, so why was it changed in AoK?

I can think of one reason: Innovation!

PS: I'm sure that if there were a timemachine, and all of the forummers here would be taken back in time to the pre-release of AoK, we would get the same, corny response against innovations:

Guy#1: "units should be able to walk onto farms."

Guy#2: "it's fine the way it is. Gameplay>Realism."

[This message has been edited by Alexandergreat3 (edited 09-18-2005 @ 05:58 PM).]

Timeless_OmO
Skirmisher
posted 09-18-05 07:51 PM EDT (US)     21 / 21       
Well, if shooting through walls is removed, this game would turn into a mess of "Wallcraft". We'd have people making layer of layer of wall behind the first as their enemies struggled in vain to get through. Most people agree that this just isn't fun or right at all. If we take the argument of realism into account, then we should keep in mind that it's also not realistic to be able to form layer after layer of insta-wall WHILE an enemy is attacking. In history, if the wall wasn't already up, you'd be fooked. Now, some may counter this argument with saying, well just make walls build more slowly or cost more as you make them. Well, if built more slowly, you might find you don't have time to wall off from the early rushes at all and with ratcheting costs it might not be feasible early on to completely wall yourself off to begin with. For all we know, this is exactly what ES went through in deciding how to balance this issue. When all things are considered, the simplest method is to allow units to shoot through walls in order to prevent wall spamming fests.
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