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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » My reasons why I think Spanish are among the top 3 best civs.
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Topic Subject:My reasons why I think Spanish are among the top 3 best civs.
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Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 05:42 AM EDT (US)         
Before I got the game everyone was saying that spanish sucked, but i was sure they didn't. Sure enough once I got the full version and was able to play online it confirmed what I believed, spanish are without a doubt among the best, maybe even number 2 behind france which is just clearly number 1.

The spanish have fast shipments which means once they hit level 10 they can really put down some powerful cards into their deck. (Just play some team games to level them up if you don't want to play 1v1 with the slightly weaker lv 1-9 spanish.)

Once you hit level 10 you get access to cool cards, and if you saved cards, (i save 6 cards when i hit lvl 10) you can get a bunch of nice lvl 10 ones.

My favourites are:
#1 Inquistor - This HUGE boost in line of sight is amazing, add on the church LOS upgrades and you have such a huge sight range you can spot the enemy long before they see you, and use this to your advantage to rush in and destroy cannons if they are exposed, do any devastation you see fit. This is in my opinion the best lvl10 card you can get, then add on to that the LOS upgrade that artillery gets from the arsenal and you literally have cannons that are mobile towers. Almost no chance for you to get suprised by a cav raid, you spot them a mile off.

#2 Caballeros - This card increase the multiplier of lancers against infantry from x3 to x4. This means a whopping extra 20 damage for a base lancer. with upgrades it makes it even more damaging. Upgraded lancers force most civs to go dragoons, which are very tame units. They are ONLY good at taking down cav, and nothing else, so your enemies attack force is much tamer. However most people don't realise that these are uber lancers that will pwn even pikemen, and still mass pikemen against them! Even halberdiers can go down if they don't mass enough of them.

#3 Archaic Soldier Training - This card is a must because spanish have decent archaic units especially pikemen and crossbow men, and when I use a water boom strategy and my military lags behind, this card can help me field a bigger army much quicker since it reduces the build rate of Xbows by 50% and pikes by 25%.

So far I haven't run into any games where i thought, omg spanish suck, I'm now 20-4 but of the 4 games i lost, each one was due to being out played by a better opponent (damn u french) and one where I played against a better spanish player.

I may start to play with all civs eventually but for now i would rate the civs:

1) French
2) Spanish
3) Russia (I haven't played a russian player yet, but i think they are strong)
4) Dutch
5) British
6) Ottomans
7) Germans
8) Portugeuse

What do you think?

[This message has been edited by Ceres629 (edited 11-06-2005 @ 05:46 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
WH_demoneyekyo
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 06:34 AM EDT (US)     1 / 31       
each player have their own set of rating for their civ. depending on ur play style & skill, it'll varies.

base on my experience: when facing player that r likely more skilled then u r, u'll most likely do better with a weaker civ then an op one. since pressure plays a huge role in deciding the winner & loser (for me anyway :P) .

anyhoo, for me, there is no such thing as a weak civ nor a OP civ. it all come down to u! so i'm not gonna rate the civ, since it all come down to the player. and typically for me, i tend to do better with a weak civ then i would with a strong civ.

but then again it could also b/c most people focus on countering the "strong" civ and thus lead to more strat for weaker civ & make them more powerful relative to the other one.


Stop spamming! No one care about ur damn post count!
Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 07:20 AM EDT (US)     2 / 31       
Obviously it depends on the player, but there is such a thing as one civ being stronger than the other. In AoM it existed before Set's animals were nerfed. Sure a noob with Set couldn't beat a pro with any other civ, but Set was clearly more powerful than the other civs for a long time.

But I think it is still to early to say which civ is overpowered, but i think very few will argue that as it stands now, french is the strongest.

pv1979
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 08:08 AM EDT (US)     3 / 31       
I don`t know about the french. In general i think people say to early that a civ is Over Powered. The game isn`t released yet in large parts of azia, if i understand correctly.........

At agesanctuary there are people saying that you can raid the french early with cavs and that you can hamper their economy because they will garisson their vils. Some guy seem to think that it just takes a bit more time to beat the french, but

if that is the case, than the Otomans are certainly underpowered, because they don`t have the time to wait until them french vils must go to other hunting grounds....... because their economy is less good than the french economy.................


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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 08:12 AM EDT (US)     4 / 31       
if french villagers are fighting they arent gathering.

russians are easy to counter with cavalry. However in team games if one mass strelets and the other musketeers or pikemen you have a problem


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Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 08:16 AM EDT (US)     5 / 31       

Quote:

if that is the case, than the Otomans are certainly underpowered, because they don`t have the time to wait until them french vils must go to other hunting grounds....... because their economy is less good than the french economy.................

They are

Quote:

At agesanctuary there are people saying that you can raid the french early with cavs and that you can hamper their economy because they will garisson their vils

I've been having recent success with pike rushing and taking down their houses, crippling their economy, then coming in with hussars to take down their anti-infantry and to raid. I pike rush Dutch as well. I pretty much pike rush any turtling/booming civ, if i notice they advance to late. But french who advance early are absolute nightmares to deal with.

Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 09:04 AM EDT (US)     6 / 31       
yep im spanish too and it seems we have the same playing style
out of the 17 games ive lost one
i mostly play 1v1
but the last 3 games i was playing with a german ally
god that rocks
pikerush (against buildings) + uhlans (to kill antiinfantry and villies)
we crippled a jann rush ottoplayer so hard in the first 7 minutes he already gave up
and other civs actually didnt even had a chance...

Unfortunatily ESO didnt count all my games, so im still level 9. But ive spared up 5 cards. (only getting the 4 villies adn 300 wood card.)

Attrition
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 09:32 AM EDT (US)     7 / 31       
I like using the Portugese. I don't much enjoy the whole 'rushing' of anything concept because it takes away from the game. I think so, anyways.

Who dost molest my contemplation?
duidelijk
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 09:46 AM EDT (US)     8 / 31       
I use french because they habe a strong eco and a strong army with there cruisers(sp?)(those heavy calvery) and when you fully upgrade your coureur de bois they can flee from a rusher and don't get killed.

I play with a friend that uses the brits. My early eco can defend his slowly early eco against rushers.

rushers don't stand a chance against a french player that know's what to do.


A fan and player of the AoE series since the launch of the original AoE

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[This message has been edited by duidelijk (edited 11-06-2005 @ 09:49 AM).]

ShadowZX
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 10:01 AM EDT (US)     9 / 31       
Quote from Ceres:

Upgraded lancers force most civs to go dragoons, which are very tame units. They are ONLY good at taking down cav, and nothing else, so your enemies attack force is much tamer.

I am gonna have to disaggre on that. Dragoons r not just anti cavalry, they cr good against light infantry and meele infantry. In melee mode they r good against cannon since they r cavalry. I think ur a little biased against them. U once said on another thread they r cost ineffective to have in a army.

Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 10:03 AM EDT (US)     10 / 31       

Quote:

rushers don't stand a chance against a french player that know's what to do.

Tell me about it. You can't really boom to Fortress because french players (good ones at least) tend to get lots of cavalry anyway because their cav owns.

You can't rush them because well, you will die.
You can't leave them alone either because their economy is great.
Blazingly fast pike raids are the key.

Here is a tip for you luckyass (and other spanish players)in case you don't know it. Pikemen attack buildings TWICE as fast if you put them in cover mode, also they take half ranged damage! I have pwned so many people with this, 8 pikemen can level a house in seconds due to the increased seige attack speed!
I have watched a few replays of experts at agesanctuary, and I haven't see anyone use this, so I guess it isn't that well known. In fact any unit that has cover mode can do it, also ranged units also do it if u put them in melee mode!

Spains pikemen are even MORE uber

Quote:

Upgraded lancers force most civs to go dragoons, which are very tame units. They are ONLY good at taking down cav, and nothing else, so your enemies attack force is much tamer.

I am gonna have to disaggre on that. Dragoons r not just anti cavalry, they cr good against light infantry and meele infantry. In melee mode they r good against cannon since they r cavalry. I think ur a little biased against them. U once said on another thread they r cost ineffective to have in a army.

They are not good against light infantry, Xbows and longbowmen will own them, since they have NO ranged armor, although they are good against melee infantry only if you hit and run, but if they get caught by pikemen they are dead in seconds. It still means the enemy force is tame because it lacks strength. If forced to fight and not run, they really suck.

U certainly also don't want dragoons charging at cannons and getting them forced into melee against infantry. Thats like chucking gold and food into a black hole.

[This message has been edited by Ceres629 (edited 11-06-2005 @ 10:08 AM).]

schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 10:37 AM EDT (US)     11 / 31       
when i use ruyther, and enemey cav is down, and enemy has skirms or cross/longbows i always put then in melee and attack. it forces their light infantry to melee combat, so your own light infantry can kill them fast. most times i lose all my ruyther this way, but most skirmishers survive

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Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 10:42 AM EDT (US)     12 / 31       
If it is light infantry vs ruyter and light infantry then obviously the team with the ruyters will win!
CK the Fat
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 10:48 AM EDT (US)     13 / 31       
I use dragoons to raid enemy villagers, run in, wreck havok, and be gone again by the time the enemy has responded.

Anyway, Spain is rarely played online, I've noticed, but I don't think everyone's aware of their strategies.

majpain
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 11:23 AM EDT (US)     14 / 31       
Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 11:26 AM EDT (US)     15 / 31       
I think spain got that low win percentage because lots of noobz tried them because they were in the demo, and lost a lot then thought they sucked and moved on to easier *cough*ottoman*cough* civs. Thats why there aren't a lot of spanish players left, but the ones that are left are good, I always worry when i draw a spanish opponent.

I think so few people play portugal that their strats are not known, that is why at the moment i consider them the weakest, as people develop more strats the list could change.

BloodHawk123
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 12:13 PM EDT (US)     16 / 31       
Where in the world are you guys coming from. Are you playing the same game as me? I will concede that the french are probably one of the best, although I haven't played them so i'm not sure why. In this game the most powerful civ is by three hundred miles the Ottomans. They can tech much faster than the second fastest civ due to no food cost for villagers. This allows them to focus solely on food in archaic. If a good Ottoman player rushes they will almost never lose to a player of equal or lesser skill. I play Germans and have tweaked some of the rushes brought up on this board to my liking. I can advance to the second age by 4:00-4:20, have 5 ulans in your base by 4:40, and have an army of pikes in your base by 5:30. I have only lost 3 games while winning 17 or so. I have played against ottomans several times and all of my losses have come against them. They can age about 20-30 seconds faster and are able to make an army of jannisaries and abus guns which can annihilate and units of equal or even greater age.
Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 12:30 PM EDT (US)     17 / 31       
Janissary rushes are old now, most better players know how to handle it. Some civs can't handle the jani rush well, but spain can advance to 2nd age in under 4 mins just like ottomans can, so I never have problems against it.
Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 12:45 PM EDT (US)     18 / 31       
Thanks for the tip Ceres, didnt knew that

as for dragoons..they suck against everything but cannons and cavalry
but since cannons are always guarded, there only good against cavalry

Ottomans are not easy to beat, but i believe Spanish vs Otto = about 50% - 50%
Spanish win if they can kill some villies or buildings
Ottos win if they can get abusguns in time
Never lost to ottomanplayer but in some xpert record games i saw really good abusowning

And french...well i always send my 15 pikes right away to kill some houses before he advances. Then try to get mapcontrol by placing towers and dont let him have indian tribes.

Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 12:58 PM EDT (US)     19 / 31       
I guess i rate ottoman low because I don't find their rush that overpowering because spanish have such a fast start.
Luckyass
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 01:06 PM EDT (US)     20 / 31       

Quote:


Ceres' signature
"Everytime a Spanish player builds a Rodelero, baby Jesus cries." - Me


Quote:


Ceres' stats
unit produced average
Rodelero 100 8.33

the cruelty!
Baby Jesus cried 100 times because of you!

[This message has been edited by Luckyass (edited 11-06-2005 @ 01:07 PM).]

Major Helper
AoKH Survivor, Mr. White Teeth
posted 11-06-05 01:54 PM EDT (US)     21 / 31       
^LOL i loved that (puts that in my "funny quotes" file)

ontopic:yes,i agree spain is a very good civilization (i dont have the game yet,but who cares,i still think theyre kinda good) since they get fast shipments and they can upgrade those pikemen,whom i like a lot

CERES639: ididntknowtheycanattackbuildingstwiceasfastwhenincovermode:P thatsausefulinformation,andillusethatfromnowone(ifihappentoremember)


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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 02:23 PM EDT (US)     22 / 31       

Quote:

Rodelero 354196


i think baby jesus isnt very happy, he cried over 350k times

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 03:38 PM EDT (US)     23 / 31       

Quote:

the cruelty!
Baby Jesus cried 100 times because of you!

Lol, most of those were from shipments before I got enough cards to replace the Rodalero cards. Spain has so many shipments, I had no choice but to send Rodalero cards, especially against ottoman rushers! Thats why they are only used in 12 games, because after that I think I managed to get rid of all rodelero cards!

[This message has been edited by Ceres629 (edited 11-06-2005 @ 03:39 PM).]

TheGoodEvil
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 06:02 PM EDT (US)     24 / 31       
you ahev to really have a lot of play time with spain to make them truely effective, and you have to know what you are capable of. most players don't hince they think spain sucks. When I first started with spain they sucked, and they did suck. low level spain without the proper card selection sucks... seriously.

It wasn't until I started learning more about the game and how to play that I got into playing Spain MUCH better and went on like an 11 game winning streak... if you are new don't play them and expect to have a lot of victories.

TGE


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BloodHawk123
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-05 07:33 PM EDT (US)     25 / 31       
Well if Ottoman rushes aren't that powerful how are you supposed to counter them. Is it possible with the Germans?
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