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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Dutch Cuirassier Counter
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Topic Subject:Dutch Cuirassier Counter
Culverin
Skirmisher
(id: Robert_Squared)
posted 01-12-06 07:47 PM EDT (US)         
I was playing a game against a french player today (I was dutch). It looked like I was gone, but he didn't attack again and I raided his gold mine which had about 15 Couriers on it, killing about 11 of them, and sent a bigger force and destroyed his factory, which won me the game because he didn't have enough gold production. Anyhoo, my halbs worked way better at countering his cuirassiers than ruyters. Maybe my micro is bad, but still. What do ya'll think?

Just call me Robert.
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AuthorReplies:
StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 01-12-06 08:01 PM EDT (US)     1 / 15       
Yeah, ruyters are not the best counter to them at all.

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Philbo1
Skirmisher
posted 01-12-06 08:21 PM EDT (US)     2 / 15       
Ia mgonna do a series of tests seeing what units counter Cuirs. Or Queers as I like to call them.

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tster123
Skirmisher
posted 01-12-06 08:25 PM EDT (US)     3 / 15       
if you were to use halb meatshields backed up by ruyters it would work the best. also you gotta micro the ruyters.
Caveman_Joe
Skirmisher
posted 01-12-06 08:57 PM EDT (US)     4 / 15       
@tster123: Thats exactly what I recently learned to do.
Now if only my micro was better...
Cy Marlayne
Skirmisher
posted 01-12-06 10:56 PM EDT (US)     5 / 15       

Quote:

Yeah, ruyters are not the best counter to them at all.

OMG YES THEY ARE!

I can counter 40 Cuirassiers with 50 Ruyters.

Why? Microing. Don't believe me? Let's play a game and I'll show you.


Halberdiers do a great deal of damage, but the Cuirassiers trample them really fast. If you don't back your Halberdiers with Ruyters, then you can forget winning the battle.

The Ruyter is where the money's at. I usually have at least 100 when facing a French player... it will completely own his Cuirassiers. To do this, you can micro your Ruyters by using hit-and-run tactics.

When I micro my Ruyters, I usually break a group of 50 into 3 groups of 17, 17, and 16. At first, I select them all and have them fire upon a group of Cuirassiers. The Cuirassier then attempt to charge them, so I retreat them and either stop to fire again, or I use my three control groups to break them apart into their three groups. Then I circle the the Cuirassiers, fire, move a group, use the next group, fire, move the group, use the third group, fire, move the group, and repeat. The player won't have his Cuirassiers in control groups, and even if he did, it would be suicide to break them apart because that's where they get their power.

40 Cuirassiers will lose to 50 Ruyters if you do it like that. Try it.


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Coen
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 03:49 AM EDT (US)     6 / 15       
The natural question now is, how do the French counter 50 Ruyters? Dragoons?

I've been wondering what in general is the best counter for cavalry. Dragoons? Pikeman? Halbardiers? I usually make dragoons as cavalry counter.


Non saprum natum quid, et semper esse puerum
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 04:15 AM EDT (US)     7 / 15       
often the ping is too high to micro large groups

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Ceres629
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 04:25 AM EDT (US)     8 / 15       
Halbadiers have like 10% melee armor and are as slow as hell. Its no wonder they get owned buy cuirassiers. Ruyter spam seems to be the way to go.
Neoras
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 04:56 AM EDT (US)     9 / 15       
>often the ping is too high to micro large groups

How does the ping affect your microing? The game usually hangs when a players dataset is arriving too late at the host. There's a snyc thread comparing and adjusting players coordinates all the time. You'll get an error if one player is sending too late or isn't responding at all.

And let me add this: What people usually consider a lag, is, in most cases, caused by weak hardware. If a players PC is too slow, the synchronisation will take longer (hence you get the slide show, the "lag") or even fail.


Current stats
Cuetech - 1930 (05/20)
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 05:31 AM EDT (US)     10 / 15       
simple, if the ping is high, it takes longer before your units react. Ever seen that your units react immediatly?

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Neoras
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 05:41 AM EDT (US)     11 / 15       
Ah ok, now I get the point... As far as I'm concerned, I sometimes appreciate a minor lag - that gives me more time for microing and managing my eco ;-)

Current stats
Cuetech - 1930 (05/20)
SapphirianDragon
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 06:06 AM EDT (US)     12 / 15       
I've found out from various FFAs that FUed Imperial Nassau Halberdiers (which never happens in regular games)actually does quite well against pure Cuirassiers if backed up by Ruyters. The Halberdiers deal some damage while protecting your Ruyters with awfully low HP from being trampled to death. Don't even think of using anything remotely similar to Cannons when the enemy is using Cuirassiers though, their 1K hp allows them to dash right in, kill all your cannons and run the hell away.

In normal games, Ruyters do nicely against them if your micro is good enough. Always hit and run with Ruyters -- Their low HP means that they'll get completely slaughtered if you just let them sit there and shoot.


"If you use French you are gay, if you use french + native rush and cuir spam you are flaming out of control" --TGE, pre 1.05 patch
Diceclock
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 09:22 AM EDT (US)     13 / 15       
I like sending the Ruyters in as one big charging mass to Melee the Currsairs. They do just about as good in Melee as ranged, and typically the battle is too big to micro effectively.

By charging the Ruyters in Melee mode, you get a lot of the Cursairs to go into Trample, because enemies are in range.

But of course most of that trample damage is hitting other Currisairs. I can lose 3 Ruyters and if I take out 1 Currasiar in return, I'm happy.

Shizzle
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 10:52 AM EDT (US)     14 / 15       
Falconets kills halbs
Skirms kills ruiters easily, they are the ruyter counter. so you just retreat your cuirassiers, blow the halbs to pieces with the cannons and finish the rest of em and the ruyters with the skirmishers ad cuirassiers.

[This message has been edited by Shizzle (edited 01-13-2006 @ 10:53 AM).]

Cy Marlayne
Skirmisher
posted 01-13-06 01:55 PM EDT (US)     15 / 15       
If the French player has the population space to have skirmishers, cannons, AND cuirassiers. Then I won't be scared of him at all. At that point, I would continue to mass Ruyters and micro the cannons first, then send a batch to melee the Skirmishers, because Skirmishers suck in melee, and Ruyters do better against Skirmishers in melee.

Now, if he has MORE Skirmishers than anything else... like, say 30. Then I'll add Hussars because having my own Skirmishers would be stupid since even 20 Cuirassiers can rape them, plus the cannons.

Besides, Hussars won't be as much as a waste to me as killing all of his cannons and Cuirassiers would be to him.


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