You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.103 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Issues with “No Rush” Games
Bottom
Topic Subject:Issues with “No Rush” Games
« Previous Page  1 2 3 ··· 4  Next Page »
MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 01:22 PM EDT (US)         

I have played several “No Rush” games online (1V1 and 2V2) and become a witness to different type of issues where players are getting into disagreements about what is allowed and what is not during the “No Rush” period.

I was witness to cases where one player was sending his explorer to his opponent’s base, and his opponent’s units automatically attacked the explorer.
The player then demanded that his opponent would stop his units from attacking his explorer, claiming that “No Rush” means no attack at all.

There have been other cases where a player built barracks and stables near his opponent’s base, and demanded from his opponent to remove his units from the area so they don’t attack his buildings.

There have been cases where two explorers got into a fight and both players blamed each other for rushing.

The list of issues goes on and on, and I was a witness to those issues in most “No Rush” games.
Needles to say that in every occurrence players were swearing and excusing each other for cheating, and the atmosphere was not too friendly to say the least.

The problem is that there are no defined rules for “No Rush” games and everybody are using their own interpretation.
Many players (mostly the ones with high win percentage) are taking advantage of the “No Rush” rule and are building fort, barracks and stables very near to their opponent’s base, knowing that they would not be attacked.

I therefore feel that the unofficial “No Rush” games is not working very well, and I would like to ask Ensemble (once again) to implement a “Cease Fire” option.

The most simple solution to a “Cease Fire” option (for a specific amount of time), is to disable the training units icons and unit shipments, until the cease fire is over (Germans would get all their Hulans when the cease fire expires)

Players can build Barracks and stables but cannot train any units from them until the cease fire is over.

Minuteman, explorer, and Villagers can still attack, but they are not going to be effective.

In addition to that, no build up would be allowed on the other half side of the map until the cease fire is over.

IMO, this would resolve the issues we currently have with “No Rush” games.

AuthorReplies:
Flammifer
Kings Guard
posted 03-09-06 01:41 PM EDT (US)     1 / 103       
Implimentation of any in game constraint to make "no rush" games will only result in players trying to get around such rules. Can I still send a villager to go kill all of the hunting on the other half of the map? What about trading posts in the middle, am I obligated to let you have roughly half of them? Can I run my army into your town as the time is about to end and have you not attack them untill they're killing all of your vills?

NerVe Clan
SMF AoE3 Recorded Game Data Mod
icq: 118526591 «¦¤¦» msn: theflammifer@hotmail.com
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 01:43 PM EDT (US)     2 / 103       
should it be possible to wall enemy settler?

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩš_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 01:54 PM EDT (US)     3 / 103       
The 'no train' option is the worst idea to forbid a rush. That would favor any player with a quick train queue. Finally it leads to a Russian superpower: max. blockhouses around opponent, and the quick and grouped train would kill the opp. before he had his first combat unit produced.

Imo, only a strict 'taboo zone' around player's 1st TC was halfways fair. So as it's impossible to build within this zone, it could be expanded to disable unit placement there.

SRahim
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:13 PM EDT (US)     4 / 103       
I think the system is just fine as it is. This game is not designed to be played in that manner, and though I enjoy it, you cannot simply adapt the game to be played that way. The differing opinions of hundreds of players as to what constitutes a 'No Rush' game would make any attempt my Ensemble to create a standard more or less unfair. The best solution: ask before the game begins what the rules for that game are.
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:21 PM EDT (US)     5 / 103       
simple solution

shorten no rush time to 15 minutes

Pagasaeus
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:21 PM EDT (US)     6 / 103       

Quote:

Implimentation of any in game constraint to make "no rush" games will only result in players trying to get around such rules.

I don't think you're creative enough.

How about a pysical barried that crosses the map that cannot be breached until a set time period. I guess you can still do hot air ballon rushes, but those usually don't do much good.

Another option is to zone the map so that if one team crosses to the other side with any unit other than the explorer, the unit instantly dies when it touches the boundary. Units trained by the explorer like dogs and amushers also die if trained near the enemy base.

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:25 PM EDT (US)     7 / 103       
If you enable any unit to have LOS to opponent, longe ranged units like bombards, mortar ships could exploit this for an attack.
Pagasaeus
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:29 PM EDT (US)     8 / 103       
Mortar ships can't fire more than about 1/8-1/10 of the map distance on a large map. You dont need a lot of space to max out your plantation and farm economy. If that doesn't work, you can use a combination of no attack (like the AoM godpower) along with the barrier in the middle.

[This message has been edited by Pagasaeus (edited 03-09-2006 @ 02:30 PM).]

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:31 PM EDT (US)     9 / 103       
*argh* .. In nearly every water RM someone's TC is near enough for a mortar ship
Cy Marlayne
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:34 PM EDT (US)     10 / 103       
Step One: Call it "no attack" instead of "no rush".

Step Two: Take a moment to think about the difference between these two.

Problem solved.


₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
Welcome to Life, your vacation from nothing.
₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪₪
Natus
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:40 PM EDT (US)     11 / 103       

Quote:

simple solution:

shorten no rush time to 15 minutes

Simpler solution:

Don't play "no-rush" games! People will cheat inevitably, and you'll end up dissatisfied. The game simply wasn't built with "no-rush" in mind.


BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:42 PM EDT (US)     12 / 103       
You really want 'no attack' within a certain time? Then let me wait for your first complains like:
- opp. has surrounded my town with multiple walls
- opp. has built all forts/towers around my TC
- i don't get any TP
- opp. walls my settlers
... and many more issues
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 02:52 PM EDT (US)     13 / 103       

Quote:

Simpler solution:

Don't play "no-rush" games!


then you are asking some people just quit playing altogather

MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 03:03 PM EDT (US)     14 / 103       

Quote:

simple solution: shorten no rush time to 15 minutes

When I host a “No Rush” I set it to 15 minutes and all the issues that happened were in these games.

Quote:

should it be possible to wall enemy settler?

Some of the people who responded to my post did not read it carefully enough.
I had clearly stated that during the cease fire period “ no build up would be allowed on the other half side of the map until the cease fire is over”.
That goes for walls, barracks, Trading posts or anything else.
Right now players do build outposts, barracks, trading posts near their opponent base, and that should not be allowed.

The problem is that there are many rules to “No Rush” games and it is impossible to explain all of them to the other players.

Quote:

Simpler solution: Don't play "no-rush" games!

Yes, that is true, and sometimes I will do just that (depending on my mood).

But, how can we tell 50% of online players that they cannot play “No Rush” games?
They have a right to play anyway they want, they just need Ensemble’s help to set down the rules.


In any case, even if a “Cease Fire” option does not work perfectly, it is still going to work much better than the way “No Rush” games work now.

[This message has been edited by MosheLevi (edited 03-09-2006 @ 03:08 PM).]

Chubbs4U
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 03:12 PM EDT (US)     15 / 103       
can we create a like over the river or michi no rush maps liek the old days....Im not sure if this can be done or not...I assume it cant be done cause if it could it would of been done already...
BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 03:13 PM EDT (US)     16 / 103       
And I assume, you didn't think enough about the consequences of your imaginations. Do you want a map fragmentation into friend-foe? Introducing a 'fire arm certificate' ?

I begin to think, AoE3 is not the right game for you.

OLD_Enemy
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 03:24 PM EDT (US)     17 / 103       
Michi, oh god no, no AoEIII michi map.

And this is coming from someone who enjoys no rush games (though I never have friends to play them with) as well as BF games in AoC. Though atleast one of us either rushed or flushed in AoC.


ESO: Enemy

Gaming rig: Athlon 3800+ X2 250x10 =2500Mhz/WD 160GB SATA/PQI 2x 1GB PC3200/PNY 7800GT/Shuttle SN25P

MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 03:25 PM EDT (US)     18 / 103       

Quote:

And I assume, you didn't think enough about the consequences of your imaginations. Do you want a map fragmentation into friend-foe? Introducing a 'fire arm certificate' ?

Don’t be silly.

Quote:

I begin to think, AoE3 is not the right game for you.

Are you one of those guys you like to say all the time “if you don’t like everything about the game, then do play it at all”?.

Don’t worry about me, I enjoy both “Rush” games and “No Rush” games very much.
I just wanted to point out that the current “No Rush” games don’t work well at all.

My solution may not be the best one, but I am sure that there should be a way to improve “No Rush” games and prevent all the swearing and misunderstanding that is happening right now.

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 03:31 PM EDT (US)     19 / 103       
Your problem is obviously: you have well-meant ideas, but don't analyze in full consequence the far-reaching effects.
So a 'no train' is unsatisfying as well as a 'no attack' option. Examples were given enough.
MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 03-09-06 03:40 PM EDT (US)     20 / 103       

Quote:

Your problem is obviously: you have well-meant ideas, but don't analyze in full consequence the far-reaching effects.

Lol, I have been working as a Programmer/analyst and System designer for the last 20 years, so I can assure you that my analyzing skills are very good.

Quote:

So a 'no train' is unsatisfying as well as a 'no attack' option. Examples were given enough.

Why should you train units for the first 15 min or so if you are not planning to attack during that time?
Just pretend that you are booming for 15 min or so, that is all.

Have you ever played ”No Rush” games online?
If so, are you happy with the way they work now with all the misunderstandings that are going on?
If not, why do you object to a “Cease Fire” option that you will never use?

[This message has been edited by MosheLevi (edited 03-09-2006 @ 03:43 PM).]

The_Termin8tor
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 03:51 PM EDT (US)     21 / 103       
Well i play a lot of no rush games, and I make sure they are all 15mins. I have had the problem with explorer attacking settlers by accident, but ppl have seemed fair enough to move them away.

I have only been attacked pre-15mins once and that was last night, but he saw his arse when i sent pikes/muskets to sort him out.

The only grey area centres around TP's/Native posts. If you go and capture them all, there is a little bickering goes on.

Other than that, Ive not really had many problems, and to be honest I prefer these games as Im crap at rushing anyway, and I feel I get more value for money playing these types of games.

BilboBeutlin
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 03:54 PM EDT (US)     22 / 103       
Because it's silly. Just a 'no rush' fan should be able to build up a defense army for the countdown.
And how about claiming treasures during 'peace'? I don't want to see an opp. stealing my earned nuggets.
Also I want to be able to choose a good build place for fort, tower, TC, TP ... and in case enforced.

I don't know, what you analyzed and designed in the past - but surely no games
btw: I'm since '80 in the business and was co-developing also game stuff

N_E_Patriots
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 03:57 PM EDT (US)     23 / 103       
I say any one who plays no rush games should learn how to play the game.
timmac
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 04:04 PM EDT (US)     24 / 103       
when you play a no rush game you should be prepared for everything and anything. no excuses.
CwlHeddwyn
Skirmisher
posted 03-09-06 04:07 PM EDT (US)     25 / 103       
in the no rush games ive played- the rules are basically dont attack the enemy until the allowed time.

u can build on whatever native village or trading post u want- if your enemy isnt fast enough to claim then thats their problem. ive never had players bother building forts next to an enemy's TC or anything- most players are pretty considerate- though personally i have taken the nearest trading post to an enemy and built defences and barracks there to use it as a Forward Assault Base.

« Previous Page  1 2 3 ··· 4  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames