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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Is the Highlander the new heavyweight of Mercs since 1.05?
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Topic Subject:Is the Highlander the new heavyweight of Mercs since 1.05?
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ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-06 01:41 PM EDT (US)         
Ive always liked the Highlander, even before .05. They have monster ranged attack with even better results when meleeing cavalry. They have good hitpoints also. Im not sure what thier resist is tho.

Anyways i wanted to have a healthy discussion on how the Highlander weighs out amoung the competition. Highlanders kill Black Riders ranged or melee, they are just slower so they can get bumped. Jaeger owns Highlander, but are slower since .05, is the Jaeger still better than Highlander?

I like sending the 2 cannon shipment, then sending Highlanders to defend cannons. I can usually have 11 Highlanders, 2 falconets and 10 pikemen at about 8:20.

Highlander is better than Swiss Pikemen, Stradiot, Mameluke, Ronin, Hackapell, Corsair, and Manchu. The only Mercs that give them any type of problem would be BR and Jaeger, what do you guys think?

EDIT: Highlanders owned in real life. They were some bad ass scotts, highly respected by the Royal Army, and other European countries alike.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu

[This message has been edited by ub3r (edited 03-17-2006 @ 01:43 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-06 01:52 PM EDT (US)     1 / 99       
yes I would say so. Unless my opponent is noob and a pike rush will kill em they are normally my first merc.

Mokon | | | AoE3 Rate 2200~ | | |
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  • ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 03:45 PM EDT (US)     2 / 99       
    Kool. They get the job done weather against infantry, horses or artillery.

    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 03:48 PM EDT (US)     3 / 99       
    highlanders are easier to counter with skirms then jeager. Also falcs do good vs them, i never have had really a problem with them, BR are a greater problem

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    justiw
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 03:58 PM EDT (US)     4 / 99       
    I've had trouble facing highlanders after 1.05. I always thought they were cool, but now they just seem a little better. Highlanders are very hard to stop, that's for sure.

    Counter the attack, then Counter Attack!!!
    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 04:09 PM EDT (US)     5 / 99       
    Schil, you make Highlander seem like a Muskateer. Cannons will counter ANY infantry unit, why would a Highlander be different? Skirms are suuposed to counter Heavy Infantry, but Highlanders will still kill skirms even slightly outnumbered.

    What really makes them effective is the 2 cannon shipment. Highlanders are awesome at defending artillery. I can agree that a Black Rider poses more problems, but Highlander has more use than a BR.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 04:28 PM EDT (US)     6 / 99       
    i know cannons and skirms are supposed to counter them, but imo countering them isnt really a huge problem as i usually dont make hand cav. Highlanders are easier to counter without cannons then jeager is my opinion

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 04:33 PM EDT (US)     7 / 99       
    Definetely Schil. I can agree that Highlander is alot easier to counter than Jaeger w/o cannon, but the point im tryin to make is that the Highlander is better all around than the Jaeger. Highlanders can actually kill falconets in melee, they can kill most infantry if not grossly outnumbered, and Horses dont even pose a threat.

    The bad part is..before .05 i used to watch Jaegers kill Lancers, Hussars, what have you.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    Pagasaeus
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 04:37 PM EDT (US)     8 / 99       
    Why Highlanders are so good:

    1. Highlanders do more damage than Jaegars against everything, provided the target is within range. Jaegers have x2 against infantry, but their damage x2 is still lower than Highlanders'.

    2. Highlanders and Jaegers are even in close range. In close range, 11 Highlanders and 12 Jaegers are approximately evenly matched.

    3. Highlanders have more hitpoints and thus can take more cannon fire, especially against the cannon splash damage.

    3. Highlanders own cavalry.

    The only advantage Jaegers have over highlanders is the range. However, with the reduced speed, Jaegers can't easily hit and run anymore.

    Angel Walker
    Skirmisher
    (id: Just a player)
    posted 03-17-06 04:48 PM EDT (US)     9 / 99       
    That's why I love Britain:

    8 Highlanders Church Tech
    11 Highlanders Shipment
    12 Jaeger Shipment
    15 Jaeger Shipment

    =

    19 Highlanders and 27 Jaegers! WOOT!


    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 04:54 PM EDT (US)     10 / 99       
    Yea Britian has some of the best age 3 Mercs in the game. Can someone1 tell me what resist Highlander has? Im pretty sure its melee. Im also pretty sure 12 Jaegers would shit on 11 Highlanders, even tho they are slower postpatch, they can still bump and rape highlanders. What makes the highlander better, like i said before, is thier overall usage. They rape cav too.

    Not to get on this subject again =P, but have you guys ever really seen some1 get sloppy and have a group of cav get a little too close to Ronins? Everytime i play Portugal, i always send 5 Ronin and hide them w Cassadores. I would proabably make a bet that 5 Ronin could kill 30 Uhlans. I dont think thier is a worse mismatch in the game, besdies trying to shoot cannons with strelets.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu

    [This message has been edited by ub3r (edited 03-17-2006 @ 04:55 PM).]

    AlpineAxe
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 04:55 PM EDT (US)     11 / 99       
    this might hurt indeed lol.

    [img]http://www.mastersgames.de/esostats/wthen,AlpineAxe,1,8.png[/img]
    Ender_Ward
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 05:28 PM EDT (US)     12 / 99       
    Assuming equal micro skill ...

    In 1.04:
    Jaegers + Black Riders > Highlanders + Stradiots

    In 1.05:
    Highlanders + Stradiots > Jaegers + Black Riders


    "One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 06:54 PM EDT (US)     13 / 99       
    What made you think of Stradiot? I think a Mameluke could do a better job no? Even a Hackapell would do better in the terms you have presented?

    Highlander > BR
    Stradiot > Jaeger

    I think a Hackapell would do better than Straiot against Jaeger.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    The Bob
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 07:06 PM EDT (US)     14 / 99       
    yeah well have fun sending hackas into black riders

    highlanders are easy enough to stop because although they are tanks skirms are still able to hit and run - only now they lose a few of their own numbers too

    Ender_Ward
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 07:07 PM EDT (US)     15 / 99       
    Mamelukes are second best in that situation. They have less attack and there are only 5 of them, so they won't kill as many Jaegers as quickly as 7 Stradiots. But they will live longer against the Black Riders.

    You also gotta keep in mind that those civs that get Highlanders in Age 3 (11 unit shipment, normally) don't get Mamelukes until Age 4 as party of Mercenary armies, if at all.

    Hackapells are the worst choice you can make in that situation, IMO. They die too quickly to Black Riders, before the Highlanders can do their job.

    If you've got better micro than your opponent, or you're fighting one with bad micro in general, then yeah, Hackapells will work best. But we can't count on such a situation, unfortunately .


    "One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."

    [This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 03-17-2006 @ 07:10 PM).]

    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 07:09 PM EDT (US)     16 / 99       
    Where did i say i was gonna use Hackapell on Black Rider?

    I cleary said Hackapell vs Jaeger.

    Highlanders are NOT easy to stop. They do good against thier counters (skirm) and can compete with Jaeger. They have a higher ranged damage than Jaeger does WITH the bonus.

    I still think Mamelukes should ride Camels. Imagine if Mameluke had splash dmg? With german improve merc, arsenal upgrade and comanche upgrade they have like 2350 health!


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu

    [This message has been edited by ub3r (edited 03-17-2006 @ 07:15 PM).]

    Ender_Ward
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 07:14 PM EDT (US)     17 / 99       

    Quoted from uber:


    Where did i say i was gonna use Hackapell on Black Rider?
    I cleary said Hackapell vs Jaeger.

    Again, take a moment to think before hitting "post".

    When you're facing Jaegers + Black Riders, and you've got Highlanders + Hackapell, what exactly do you think your opponent is going to be attacking with those Black Riders?

    The only situation where your Hackappels will not come under fire from Black Riders, is when you're playing brain dead AI that attacks the first thing it sees.



    "One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 07:18 PM EDT (US)     18 / 99       
    Thats true but you gotta look at the flip side. He is gonna get happy when he see Hackapell and go for the kill with Riders, while he is doing that Highlanders can melee BR down. Although i think the Hackapells would die before the BR's, they still would have done significant damage to the Jaegers considering 121 dmg a whack with 7 of them.

    These hypothetical situations can be argued till no reason.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    ChowMein
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 07:27 PM EDT (US)     19 / 99       
    Highlander ar the best mercs in game. Even before 1.05 Highlander owned Jaeger. With no micro 11 highlander own 12~15 jaeger. You guys will say "Yes but if the player is not a noob he will bump and run" yes, that was before 1.05 but now they are equal speed. If both player are equal skill and one got 11 Highlander will lose against the play who got 12~15 jaeger but jaeger suck agaisnt everything except infantry. They suck at killing building, horse, artlillery and even skirm/cassa own them in number. Highlander are very balanced, they kill building, infantry(ecept skirm, cassa and jaeger if they are massed) and cavalery.


    "It is like a finger pointing away to the moon do not concentrate on the finger or you will miss all that heavenly glory."
    - Bruce Lee
    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 08:06 PM EDT (US)     20 / 99       
    Chow, i like ya, not to get on you, but lol. Your spelling is so....crude.

    Anyway i have to agree w you. The Highlander has to be the best all purpose unit in the game. They also have some of the funniest voice acting when you click,move, and attack with them.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    The Bob
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 08:13 PM EDT (US)     21 / 99       
    @ uber

    yeah you "could" look at the flip side or you "could" look at your 7 dead hackas and your quickly dying highlanders

    also dont say a persons spelling is crude while spelling no better yourself

    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 08:32 PM EDT (US)     22 / 99       
    Bob people like you are the cause of rude remarks from people like myself. My spelling errors are due to typing to quick and not fixing it after i post.

    If you have 7 Hackapells doing 121 hand damage each hit, thats 850 dmg each cycle. So in once cycle about 3 or 4 Jeagers would die. In one cycle of BR shots i bet about 2 or 3 Hackapells would die.

    The difference here is this. The Jaegers cant shoot the Highlanders if they are gettting meleed by Hackapells, in the mean time the Highlanders are meleeing Black Riders, which interrupts thier shooting the Hackapell.

    Highlander and Hackapell are both dealing melee damage in this situation. The BR and Jaeegers are going for ranged damage, but we all know they cant go ranged if getting meleed, which gives the Hackas and Highlanders the advantage. I also rather have the Hackapell with lower health but higher attack to kill more Jaeger than the higher health lower attack Stradiot.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    LO12DS_Mist
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 08:47 PM EDT (US)     23 / 99       

    Quote:

    If you have 7 Hackapells doing 121 hand damage each hit, thats 850 dmg each cycle. So in once cycle about 3 or 4 Jeagers would die. In one cycle of BR shots i bet about 2 or 3 Hackapells would die.

    The difference here is this. The Jaegers cant shoot the Highlanders if they are gettting meleed by Hackapells, in the mean time the Highlanders are meleeing Black Riders, which interrupts thier shooting the Hackapell.

    Highlander and Hackapell are both dealing melee damage in this situation. The BR and Jaeegers are going for ranged damage, but we all know they cant go ranged if getting meleed, which gives the Hackas and Highlanders the advantage. I also rather have the Hackapell with lower health but higher attack to kill more Jaeger than the higher health lower attack Stradiot.

    What prevents the guy controlling BR+jaeger from microing his units to range attack, not melee? You can always force your units to fire at something even if something else is attacking it, even if that something is in melee mode.

    Also, it does not have to go that way. Both the highlanders and hackapells need to close in on the BRs+jaegers, while the BRs+jaegers will have a number, quality, and range advantage. The jaegers will be able to pop several highlanders dead, while the BRs will kill at least half of the seven hackapells before they get remotely close.

    Hackapells die to skirm fire, FFS. I think if they die to skirm fire, they'll die to jaegers/BRs too.

    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 03-17-06 08:58 PM EDT (US)     24 / 99       
    Like i said these hypothetical debates lead to nowhere, but ill keep the convo healthy.

    Mist forcing your opponent to micro his units to fire instead of melee means he aint bumping and running. Also the Highlander is not forced to close in, they can shoot the Black Riders for decent damage without getting anywhere near them.

    How do you suppose Skirms kill Hackapells? Hackapells are faster, and hit WAY harder. Honestly a skirm has like 18 ranged attack with even less in melee, while the Hackapell is killing the Skirm with 2 hits, and they can catch up if skirm bumps and runs. Hackapell is a skirmishers nightmare.

    Jaeger would be more believable, but even then the Hackapell can catch them and deal tremoundous damage before dying. BTW Jaegers dont totally own Highlanders like you say, Highlanders deal alot of ranged damage and alot more melee damage.

    Anyways the point of this post is Highlanders not Hackapells.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    OpenAmp
    Banned
    posted 03-17-06 09:19 PM EDT (US)     25 / 99       
    hey! don't forget guys! the 'black watch' tech will upgrade your existing highlanders to black watch highlanders. WOOT!

    i got critisized a while back for suggesting highlander mercs for a turtle deck. supposedly jaegers were the only faintly viable inf merc. come on!!! these guys fight like devils. highlanders get 63 ranged attack! 32 hand atk, x2 cav! 400 hitpoints! 40% melee resistance! highlanders, as opposed to jaegers, are so beefy they need minimal backup. jaegers' shoot n scoot is now almost undoable, so shields n counters are needed.

    glad to see no one is making kilt jokes. for those (if any) who are temped to do so, if a guy is 6' 4'' and 250 pounds and can throw telephone poles, is he any less manly for wearing a "dress?"

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