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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Organ guns
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Topic Subject:Organ guns
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Peej
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-06 08:15 AM EDT (US)         
I just made an unpopular post about muskets... and i'm keeping up the good work.

Organ guns are one of the few things that need to be imporved.

The organ gun replaces the falconett for teh Ports, and is no where near as good, or worth the cost.

IF the organ gun had 2 pop instead of 4, or 3 pop and costed less res. would you buy them?


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Peej the Saint
Red Sox Fan Official Idea maker? What I've done "Thank you, and have a nice day" Eso- Peej_the_Saint
AuthorReplies:
ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 03-19-06 08:08 PM EDT (US)     51 / 62       
I wasnt trying anything. All the previous 3 posts proved is that Mr Ender has to get the last laugh, to feed his cool poster ego.

You prolly dont wanna talk about the subject anymore because your wrong =D


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 03-19-06 08:18 PM EDT (US)     52 / 62       
Once again, trolling.

I am tired of entering threads and seeing you troll and flame ub3r.


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ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 03-19-06 08:30 PM EDT (US)     53 / 62       

Quote:

Weren't you the one with a bunch of villager seconds calculations?

that would be mokon or jaafit........

ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 03-19-06 08:46 PM EDT (US)     54 / 62       
Stonewall are you serious? Im trolling because im replying to Ender? You scold me for little shit, but dont say anything to them. Im sorry im bored at work with nothing to do, so im on boards making posts. Is there a rule that says i cant stay on boards for a certain amount of time? Where was i flaming? I didnt flame any1.

Stonewall ever since you became a mod you flex you authoritive muscle so much for no reason. In the short time you have been a mod on this board, you have closed more threads, and gave out more warnings than any other mod i have seen, and they been mods alot longer than you.

When you have soemthing valid to scold me about besides your sour feelings towards my attitude, come talk to me.

To all the other mods who see this. If you think im out of line, back stonewall up, I didnt flame any1 in this thread, all i did was back my opinion, and reply quickly to peoples post.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 03-19-06 08:58 PM EDT (US)     55 / 62       
I have not banned or warned anyone because of doing it, they have broken the CoC and I was just the first mod to notice it. Any other mod would have done the exact same thing.

As for closing thread, they were closed for spam mostly or other reasons.

Quote:

Im trolling because im replying to Ender?


Quote:

All the previous 3 posts proved is that Mr Ender has to get the last laugh, to feed his cool poster ego.

You prolly dont wanna talk about the subject anymore because your wrong =D


That is trolling. It is the way you reply, not just because you reply. Ender is right, you are trying to bait him into flaming.

You have done such things in numerous other threads. You and a couple others have been in threads, while posting valid arguments, but trolling each other. It is not anything over the top, just seems to be in most threads. Many other forumers have commented on this and have found it annoying.

Quote:

Is there a rule that says i cant stay on boards for a certain amount of time?


I never mentioned the length of time you were on had to do with anything.

Quote:

When you have soemthing valid to scold me about besides your sour feelings towards my attitude, come talk to me.


I am. The way you post is harsh. You construct good arguments, but can be too rude about it.

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ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 01:05 PM EDT (US)     56 / 62       
Hrm.

Stonewall you know i think your a cool guy man. I seen you on ESO and stuff, and got caught up and never got a chance to get back to you. But im still interested by the way.

Im not here to act like an asshole, i just get mad when people try to get at me verbally, so ill play word hardball too, thats it. Its never personal, some subjects can be argued down till no reason, but when poeple act like thier opinion is fact, that creates problems.

I like Ender_Ward, i joke w him all the time, i always contest his posts and ask questions, that makes the boards fun, im sorry if you thought i was trolling , i didnt mean it. I really dont like Mist tho, and Ultimitsu and i have argued numerous times, but hes cool too.

To all the people who dont like me, read my sig =D.

Anyways about the topic, i would really like a fruitful research into the dynamics of the Organ Gun, and find out why excactly they kill infantry so fast. There have to be some things missing that peopel arent adding into thier reasoning concernign this unit. Maybe some1 from ES could give us some insight =D.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 03-20-06 02:53 PM EDT (US)     57 / 62       
Thank you ub3r My only warry is that people may not know you're joking (like me >_> ). But, I do respect the amount of research you put into your posts.

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LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 04:18 PM EDT (US)     58 / 62       

Quote:

I really dont like Mist tho

Mmm...is that bait I smell?

Quote:

Havn't got a clue about the mathematics of the thing.

All I know is if I send a load of infantry at 3 Organ guns.. they drop like flies. An entire line of 10~ will drop.

If I send a similar force against 2 Falconets, they likely die but not nearly so quickly. One cannon ball like kills one soldier (depending on formation) and wounding two either side of him. In the first salvo only 2-3 will die.

No clue whether this should happen based on the stats, dodgy AoE effects or whatever but it does.

Well, the area is basically not just linear. So the shots don't just wound units to the sides. If you look closely, the units behind the unit shot at get injured as well.

The 2 falconets most definitely do not perform better than 3 organ guns, they perform almost the same. However, there are instances in which organ guns seem to be inflicting more damage than they really are simply because of a numerical advantage over falconets. Here's one:

With 3 organ guns, you might micro your artillery to fire at different spots of a mass of units. Therefore, your area of 2 for each organ gun would certainly inflict the most damage potential.

However, when you look at 2 falconets, you may be tempted to aim at two units side by side, or the same unit because there are only 2 falconets and it may seem like you don't need to micro them to get full damage potential out of them. If you aim both falcs at the same unit, the area of 3 for both falcs cancels. You only get an effect over an area of 3, not 6, unlike the guy who microed his organs to fire at different areas.

Here's another reason:
Falcs, if you notice, don't kill instantly the targets they aim at. Falcs are much worse at killing vils than organ guns are. Fire two falconet rounds at a bunch of vils, and they will have some HP left over. Use 2 organs, and you'll notice the vils will drop like flies.

My theory:

(BE WARNED: THIS IS NOT ROCK HARD EVIDENCE. IT IS SIMPLY SPECULATION.) Falcs, as they hit the enemy with a round, will spread the damage and not do so much to those on the edges. The organs, however, deal almost full damage to all the units affected...bug? I have no clue. In fact, I don't even know if this is why it seems organs kill more units in certain situations. All I know is, I've tried killing vils with falcs, and the same vils are dropped instantly by the equivalent amount of organ guns. Is it the same for infantry? Who knows. Perhaps someone can test.

Thanks ultimitsu for clearing that out...I forgot that the falc gets X3 bonus vs infantry and only deals 100 base damage, so organ gun is better against vils.

[This message has been edited by LO12DS_Mist (edited 03-20-2006 @ 04:41 PM).]

ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 04:38 PM EDT (US)     59 / 62       
organ gun kills vil dead with full 180 dmg

falc only does 100 to vils.

timmac
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 05:04 PM EDT (US)     60 / 62       
and officially that is why organs are better than falcs, nothing is more satisfiying to me then seeing 5-6 villes drop with no chance of escape in one volley.

and then the dude wheels that sucker back into safety.

ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 05:14 PM EDT (US)     61 / 62       
Mist, me stating i dont like you isnt bait for anything, it means what it says, i dont care if you comment on it or reply to it, it is what it is.

As for the good ol Ogun, i think that the reason they seem to deal more damage than falconet concerning masses of infantry (maybe not deal more damage but kill more) is due to the overkill factor and cannon micro.

You figure people usually control group there units, i do, cannons included. SO you might just press 1 then focus fire your cannons like you do every other unit group instead of having each cannon shoot a certain area of units. Maybe the Ogun just distributes the damage among the units better, for a better result.

I dont know if this is fact, this is just my thoughts on it, it could be somethign else entirely.

Like i said before no one knows the excact physics of splash dmg besides ES devs. Splash dmg doesnt necasarilly mean the unit next to it gets hit, it could be units all around them in a radious of 2, just get less damage, or it could add up to the unit thats hit, and the unit next to it gets the same amount of damage.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
Pagasaeus
Skirmisher
posted 03-20-06 05:56 PM EDT (US)     62 / 62       
I think against weak units like Strelets, Organ guns might do the same damage as do falconts.
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