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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Can french get a REAL bonus?
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Topic Subject:Can french get a REAL bonus?
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Jumbalaya
Skirmisher
posted 06-22-06 08:29 PM EDT (US)         
Sending a card does not = a bonus.. Howbout give them a boost to their natives WITHOUT sending the damn card!! Same goes for dutch and bank cards -_-

lol im jumby
AuthorReplies:
exe163
Skirmisher
posted 06-30-06 08:08 AM EDT (US)     151 / 176       
I am sorry for speaking the 'Bastardized' English instead of the 'actual English language".

P.S. I assume I am 'the person I(you) replied to '
and I am the 'bastard' who '(d)ize' English

LO12DS_Mist
Skirmisher
posted 06-30-06 08:36 AM EDT (US)     152 / 176       

Quote:

P.S. I assume I am 'the person I(you) replied to '
and I am the 'bastard' who '(d)ize' English

Stop trying. That sentence made no sense.

Quote:

They are killed at around the same amount of time as a normal villagers from cavalry

If you can't raid with cavalry (because the coureurs are too close to the TC, or your civ gets expensive cav, like Dutch) then coureurs pose a big problem. I tried killing your coureurs with skirms, big help that was. Took out like 15 HP a shot, it was as if my explorer was fighting.

Quote:

stable:
raiding
anti inf
anti cav
Rax:
2nd age anti inf
anti cav, siege
all in one anti cav
speed anti range cav
anti inf

You don't realize French get this too, right? The only difference is no rods. But, you still have dragoons, and IMO dragoons>rods.

Stable:
Raiding (cuirassier, hussar)
Anti-infantry(LI: hussar, Most infantry: Cuir)
Anti-Cav (dragoon)
Barracks:
2nd age anti-infantry (crossbow)
2nd age anti-cav, siege (pikeman)
All in one anti-cav (musket)
Anti-cavalry (halberdier)
Anti-Infantry (Skirmisher)

IMO the only advantage Spain has here is the rodelero, and IMO rods are easy to take out, they're relatively weak unless actually whacking something.

Cuirs by far are better than lancers, lancers simply don't do so well. They counter LI better than hussars, whoop-dee-doo, I'm going to use falcs for them anyway. Hussars raid better, so whats the point of making lancers (shipments are fine)


I am Rumour Kontrol.
George_uk
Skirmisher
posted 06-30-06 03:03 PM EDT (US)     153 / 176       

Quote:

P.S. I assume I am 'the person I(you) replied to '
and I am the 'bastard' who '(d)ize' English

It made sense to me, even though he tried to be a bit clever with it. Ender, what is your native language?


Previously known as MoNo Ager
Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 06-30-06 07:46 PM EDT (US)     154 / 176       
Russian.

Though I don't get why he doesn't play them.


*WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
Contact your network admin for more details
about this special edition of player...

Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 06-30-06 09:44 PM EDT (US)     155 / 176       

Quote:


Ender, what is your native language?

Russian. I was born and lived there (USSR) until age 10.

My second language was Hebrew, 'cause I lived in Israel 1990-1994. And then here in Canada English became not just the new language I had to learn, but it's become a second language in which I think (it's a mix of Russian and English in my head). Which I suppose is not surprising after 12 years in the country.


And no (*looks at Ossian*) I'm not playing Russians. I've hated the civ every time I tried. I find myself able to play any civ in the game today, except Russia, Germany and Portugal. Don't ask me why, but they just rub me the wrong way. I'd play France/Dutch right now if they weren't as weak.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 07-02-06 08:30 AM EDT (US)     156 / 176       
Yeah I could see why you don't like them, they are just something completely diffrent from other civs.

Congratz on the promote Stonewall!!!!1111


*WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
Contact your network admin for more details
about this special edition of player...

Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 07-05-06 09:00 PM EDT (US)     157 / 176       
Sorry I know mods forbid double post but I'm not going to let this topic die.

Has anyone thought that this native bonus we speak of is NEEDED?

Think about it a tad,

  • French suck in age 2
  • French can't rush, only in team games and even then they still suck at age 2 fighting
  • 1.08 comes along
  • FF gets nerfed
  • French HAVE to stay in age 2 or get killed by age 2 army
  • French will be lowest on the civ list and be more UP then dutch

    I may be making a bigger deal out of this then it is but shouldn't we be the least bit worried?


    *WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
    Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
    Contact your network admin for more details
    about this special edition of player...

    Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
  • Yobbo
    Skirmisher
    (id: Yobbo_ )
    posted 07-05-06 09:26 PM EDT (US)     158 / 176       
    give em 100 food or wood extra at start and they'll be fine in 1.08, assuming germans etc get nerfed

    If all things are relative then cannibalism is just a matter of taste...
    My AoE3 Stats
    brandnizzle
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-05-06 09:38 PM EDT (US)     159 / 176       
    good point!.

    France's bonus should be the 2nd most woody start!!!

    Ossian
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-05-06 09:48 PM EDT (US)     160 / 176       
    Nope, even with a extra wood crate they still would be tied with Brit as 2nd best wood start. (otto being first for those who don't know)

    And I still don't think wood would be as good as a real native bonus because still other people would have it better, as all things france.


    *WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
    Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
    Contact your network admin for more details
    about this special edition of player...

    Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
    Ender_Ward
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-05-06 09:58 PM EDT (US)     161 / 176       
    How about:

    French start with a free (random) Native warrior? The same way that Spanish start with a War Dog. This would be in addition to the Native Scout. Obviously Mantlets and Dog Soldiers would be excluded from this.

    OR

    French get 3 free (random type but all the same) Native warriors upon age up to Colonial. They get 5 free Native warriors upon age up to Fortress, 10 upon age up to Industrial.


    "One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
    brandnizzle
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-05-06 10:04 PM EDT (US)     162 / 176       
    native warriors+ explorer= dead vill in discovery

    ive done it tons of times with a tomahwak treasure.

    no one thinks the epxlorer attacking is a problem.

    Real2002
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-05-06 10:06 PM EDT (US)     163 / 176       
    I'd be happy to see the scout respawn after 1 minute at the town center if it's killed. They're pretty fragile and you only get one unless you pick 2 scouts and 3 mantlets at age up (yuck).

    ESO: Steel_Reign

    *Doles out the harshness*

    Ossian
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-05-06 11:27 PM EDT (US)     164 / 176       
    Yeah, the Native at start would be alittle OP.

    But it would be neat for a native at age up.


    *WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
    Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
    Contact your network admin for more details
    about this special edition of player...

    Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
    Ekanta
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 03:27 AM EDT (US)     165 / 176       
    French villager-eco bonus?

    Vs – “Villager seconds” is the amount of resources a standard villager can gather in one second

    Cost to train standard villager vs French villager:

    Standard civ
    Gather rate = 0.76 (average hunt/mill)
    Vil cost = 100 (Food)
    Train time = 25
    Vs to train a standard villager = 132 (100/0.76)

    French
    Gather rate = 0.94 (average hunt/mill)
    Vil cost = 120 (Food)
    Train time = 29 (+4 seconds)
    Vs to train a french villager = 132 (120/0.94 +4)

    Do they pop out faster then:

    Standard civ
    Gather rate = 0.76 (average hunt/mill)
    Train time = 25
    Vs u can pop out/second = 0.76/25 = 0.0304

    French
    Gather rate = 0.94 (average hunt/mill)
    Train time = 29
    Vs u can pop out/second = 0.94/29 = 0.0324

    0.0324/0.0304 = 1.066 = French eco will grow 6.6% faster than a standard civ with no bonus.

    Edited:
    Hmm... or is that accumulative? 6% + 6% +6%... ?

    [This message has been edited by Ekanta (edited 07-06-2006 @ 04:20 AM).]

    Ekanta
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 05:51 AM EDT (US)     166 / 176       
    Tested how much food French, Russia and Spain can collect in 10 minutes, with constant villager production. Included an age up to colonial at around 5 min.
    (in editor, same map... tons of hunt close) No villager shipments, only food ships (more than one 700 ship is for calculations). Here's the result:

    How much food in 10 min?

    Russia = 6984 (3 food shipments of 300+700+700)
    Spain = 6892 (4 food shipments of 300+700+700+700)
    French = 6425 (3 food shipments of 300+700+700)

    As we can see, French is not really in class with either spain or russia.

    And for those who wonder about German, it would be something like this:
    German = 6792 (3 food shipments of 300+700+700 + cost of 4 uhlans)


    [This message has been edited by Ekanta (edited 07-06-2006 @ 06:09 AM).]

    Ossian
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 09:15 AM EDT (US)     167 / 176       
    Wow... 6.6%, I think thats the best bonus ever!
    (sarcasim)

    *WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
    Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
    Contact your network admin for more details
    about this special edition of player...

    Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
    Ekanta
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 10:09 AM EDT (US)     168 / 176       
    Actually take away one 700 food shipment from spain and u got the non-bonus value at 10 min = 6192.

    So this would be the correct tested bonus in percent:

    Russia = 6984/6192 = 13%
    Spain = 6892/6192 = 11%
    Germany = 6792/6192 = 10%
    French = 6425/6192 = 4%

    [This message has been edited by Ekanta (edited 07-06-2006 @ 10:12 AM).]

    LO12DS_Mist
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 11:35 AM EDT (US)     169 / 176       

    Quote:

    How much food in 10 min?

    Russia = 6984 (3 food shipments of 300+700+700)
    Spain = 6892 (4 food shipments of 300+700+700+700)
    French = 6425 (3 food shipments of 300+700+700)

    As we can see, French is not really in class with either spain or russia.

    Why on earth would you not include vil shipments?

    Substitute 300 food for 3 settlers for Spain, and substitute 300 food for France with 3 coureurs.

    Then look what happens.


    I am Rumour Kontrol.
    Ekanta
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 11:44 AM EDT (US)     170 / 176       
    Can u ship vils the whole game?

    [This message has been edited by Ekanta (edited 07-06-2006 @ 11:44 AM).]

    Ekanta
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 12:59 PM EDT (US)     171 / 176       
    Here's the whole list (I know it's not complete in any way, but still gives a hint. The flaws u can figure out yourself.

    Food collected in 10 min + other free stuff (% is how much over non-bonus 6 vil starting civ)

    Portugal = 35% (two TC make vils + TC cost)
    Ottoman = 17% (can build tp = +1 ship)
    Russia = 13%
    Spain = 11% (+1 ship)
    Britain= 10% (one manor built = 1 vil)
    Germany= 10% (4 uhlans included)
    French = 4%
    Dutch = 4% (5 on goldmine)

    -------
    The obvious would be:
    Portugal = seems to be pretty accurate, and prolly even more with more TC's
    Ottoman = Strong for a long time, but will fade in the end
    Russia = The surprise! Well not as bad as folks think, look at eso stats.
    Spain = ok, easy to play
    Britain= with a good manor-boom u can prolly get more out of them
    Germany= perhaps not as strong as people think. Perhaps ww + too many mercs?
    French = well, courassier in all honor, they got nerfed bad
    Dutch = seems as bad as people say

    [This message has been edited by Ekanta (edited 07-06-2006 @ 01:05 PM).]

    LO12DS_Mist
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 01:04 PM EDT (US)     172 / 176       

    Quote:

    Can u ship vils the whole game?

    You can't ship 700 food twice, so what's your point? If you say use 600 food instead, I could tell you to use the 4 coureur card in age 2, as well.

    One of the French advantages comes from having the 2nd best settler card in age 1. No one really sends 300 food in age 1, so your experiment shows nothing of what real civs will gather (russians may use a resource shipment, but nearly all other civs will use a vil shipment, barring Ports. Ports, of course, will use a defensive shipment or save it for colonial.)


    I am Rumour Kontrol.
    Ekanta
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 01:11 PM EDT (US)     173 / 176       
    The point is that it doesnt matter if its wood or food u ship, its the number of ships.
    I agree on vil shipments and especially france/german. But the point is not really first 6 min (when u can send vil ships), but the function of the civs that lasts all game.

    But then again, how many can send vil shipments first thing in colonial if you are rushed hard?

    LO12DS_Mist
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 01:56 PM EDT (US)     174 / 176       
    Who would send a resource shipment if they're rushed? They would send colonial militia, or 2 outposts. Something defensive, not economic.

    Quote:

    But the point is not really first 6 min (when u can send vil ships), but the function of the civs that lasts all game.

    Umm...the function does last all game. 300 food is temporary, it does nothing but boost your food supply a minute amount. I'd rather send the vils, honestly.



    I am Rumour Kontrol.
    Ekanta
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 02:15 PM EDT (US)     175 / 176       
    Ok, I was a bit lazy and the darn editor...and vil ships do matter a lot obviously. Anyway here are some stuff at least (compared to a non-vil shipping non-bonused 6 vil starting civ):

    Portugal +35%
    3x700 (something in colonial)
    8760 (two TC + TC cost)

    Russia +13%
    3x700 (something in colonial)
    7384

    Spain +30%
    3+5+4 vils +700food (+1 ship)
    8057

    French +24%
    3+4 CDB +700food
    7708

    exe163
    Skirmisher
    posted 07-06-06 05:47 PM EDT (US)     176 / 176       

    Quote:

    Portugal +35%
    3x700 (something in colonial)
    8760 (two TC + TC cost)

    Russia +13%
    3x700 (something in colonial)
    7384

    Spain +30%
    3+5+4 vils +700food (+1 ship)
    8057

    French +24%
    3+4 CDB +700food
    7708


    i dont think bonus are counted this way

    port dont just get 600 free wood they got a tc at colonal

    russia got faster army (time just batch come out)

    french got nothing special

    spain got 700 more res

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