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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » do all archers really have 1.5 bonus vs. ALL cavalry?
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Topic Subject:do all archers really have 1.5 bonus vs. ALL cavalry?
mproviz
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 00:31 AM EDT (US)         
from skimming over proto, this is the conclusion I came to. Can someone please tell me the point of this?? Hussars were worthless enough before the patch, now they serve absolutely no purpose at all except for a good way to waste resources. All games of this genre have melee cavalry counter archers, why change this now? Just doesn't make sense to me.
AuthorReplies:
The Crazy Idiot
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 00:33 AM EDT (US)     1 / 16       
Only ranged cav.
mproviz
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 00:36 AM EDT (US)     2 / 16       
ah, i c now. I was under the impression that Hussar fell under the light cavalry category.. thx.
parallax7d
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 00:37 AM EDT (US)     3 / 16       
I know, it doesn't make sense at all. Cav have PLENTY of counters, no need to throw LI in there randomly...
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 01:16 AM EDT (US)     4 / 16       
Two types of definitions of LC:

1)

LC: Melee Cav that is able to be used in age2
HC: Melee Cav that is not able to be used until age3

2)

LC: Ranged Cav
HC: Melee cav

I personally use the second, just as with Infantry, LI counter HI, so I figured it makes more sense to use the second definition since there is no true difference between ES' definition of LC and HC, besides the age difference.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
poita
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 01:18 AM EDT (US)     5 / 16       
As far as the counter system goes, light cav = ranged cav and heavy cav = non-ranged cav.

I've never heard of that other definition.


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OpenAmp
Banned
posted 08-02-06 02:26 AM EDT (US)     6 / 16       

Quote:

LC: Melee Cav that is able to be used in age2
HC: Melee Cav that is not able to be used until age3

only thing that determines heavy or light is range.

[This message has been edited by OpenAmp (edited 08-02-2006 @ 02:28 AM).]

James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 03:32 AM EDT (US)     7 / 16       
I thought it was range, but then you see uhlans and wonder how they can be considered heavy cavalry when they die so quickly

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And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
zrtf91
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 07:36 AM EDT (US)     8 / 16       
I've found this forum very confusing because of this. Coming from AOE and AOK, I'm happier calling Hussars, Ruyters and Uhlans Light Cavalry, Lancers and Cuirassiers Heavy Cavalry and Dragoons Ranged Cavalry.

This is also, I believe, the terminology used in the Official Strategy Guide.

Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 08:26 AM EDT (US)     9 / 16       
But then again, the official strategy guide describes the ottomans as a very poor rushing civ among much else. I would hardly call that a good source.

There is only one definition of LC and HC in this game, and that is:

LC: Ranged cav
HC: Hand cav

Flammifer
Kings Guard
posted 08-02-06 08:34 AM EDT (US)     10 / 16       
Hussars are by definition light cavalry. The game is stupid, and calls all melee cavalry heavy and all ranged, light. If you try to tell anyone who knows anything that a hussar is heavy cavalry you'll at least get a funny look and probably lose a lot of respect for spouting such ignorant nonsense.
parallax7d
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 08:44 AM EDT (US)     11 / 16       
That's all well and good, has anyeone tested it though? Uhlans and Hussars especially, since those will be your age2 longbow counters.
zrtf91
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 09:30 AM EDT (US)     12 / 16       

Quoted from adam42:

There is only one definition of LC and HC in this game

The problem seems to me to be that there a different definition of LC and HC outside the game.

The Hussar is light cavalry in normal parlance but Heavy Cavalry in the proto.xml.

The proto.xml has not been documented, to my knowledge, and it's terms not clarified but to assign the term Heavy Cavalry to an Hussar in the real world is absurd.

The use of Ranged cavalry to distinguish Dragoons and Ruyters from Melee cavalry such as Hussars and Lancers makes more sense and these terms (Ranged and Melee) are used in game.


Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 09:55 AM EDT (US)     13 / 16       
Yes, I am aware that people refer to LC as ranged cav and HC as melee cav, but that is NOT how ES puts it. Look at the game description of hussar and Uhlan for example.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 11:44 AM EDT (US)     14 / 16       

Quoted from Brtnboarder495:

Yes, I am aware that people refer to LC as ranged cav and HC as melee cav, but that is NOT how ES puts it. Look at the game description of hussar and Uhlan for example.

But then ES describes Abus Guns and Grenadiers in game as "light artillery", while they are treated by the game as light and heavy infantry, respectively.

ES may describe Uhlans and Hussars as light cavalry in game, but they are infact treated by the game as heavy (melee) cavalry.

Real world comparisons, manual descriptions, tool tip descriptions, they all don't matter. The only thing that matters is the in game counter system. And that counter system knows only two types of cavalry with absolute divisions among them:

1. Ranged (light)
2. Melee (heavy)

That's it.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Flying Bishop
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 11:50 AM EDT (US)     15 / 16       
HC = Home City
HC = Heavy Cannon
HC = Heavy Cav = Hand Cav
HC = Heavy Cav = Age 3 Cav
HC = *head explodes*

The convoluted wording of legalisms grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. You have done violence to him, consumed his energy. Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another the ultimate assumption remains: "I feed on your energy."
-Frank Herbert, Dune
Chimp With A Gun
Skirmisher
posted 08-02-06 12:33 PM EDT (US)     16 / 16       
HC=Hard Core
HC=Horrible Cats
HC=heaven Cgames

Chimp with a gun
AKA
Desert fox
WAR DOESN'T DETERMINE WHO'S RIGHT,
ONLY WHO'S LEFT
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