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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Sioux sound insane (9 Rifle Riders one shot kill Falconets, while also acting as Dragoons and Skirmishers)
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Topic Subject:Sioux sound insane (9 Rifle Riders one shot kill Falconets, while also acting as Dragoons and Skirmishers)
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Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-10-06 01:45 AM EDT (US)         
I present to you, the Sioux Rifle Rider. Pay special attention to the rate of fire of this gunpowder unit. Pay even more attention to the damage bonuses it recieves.

StaggerRangedAttack: 13 (Ranged), ROF: 1.5, Range: 0-12, Bonuses: HeavyCavalry x 3.0, Villager x 0.5, HeavyInfantry x 3.0, Artillery x 6.0, Ship x 6.0

Yes, ladies and gentlemen, that's not a typo. That is, indeed, a 6.0 bonus against artillery.

Now, that 13 base damage, those aren't even Veteran stats. Veteran stats become 16.25 damage (because Natives upgrade is 1.25, no 1.2 as for Europeans). That's 16.25 damage every 1.5 seconds. But more than a single shot isn't even necessary for Falconets!

Take 10 Rifle Riders, get in range of a Falconet and:

16.25 x 6.0 = 97.5 damage from a SINGLE rider.

97.5 x 0.25 (ranged resistance) = 24.375 damage a single rider will do to a Falconet. Which in reality means that it takes a mere 9 Riders to ONE SHOT KILL that Falconet.

This unit is essentially, all in one a:

Dragoon (3x vs heavy cavalry).
Skirmisher upgraded with CIR (see the 3x vs heavy infantry).
And is 60% as good as an Abus Gun at taking out artillery (that's BEFORE we take into account the 1.5 rate of fire).

Oh, let's not forget that this "Dragoon" and "Skirmisher" actually has TWICE the rate of fire of either of those units. No, in reality, this thing does:

97.5 damage to HvyCav in the same time a Dragoon does 78.
97.5 damage to HvyInf in the same time a Skirmisher does 36.

Are we getting worried yet?

That's not all though. Don't let any of your fishing boats get too close to the shore. Cause these things have a 6x against ships too!

So, you must think by now that such a unit must have an insane cost and pop requirement, right? Um ... no.

Cost: 120 food, 100 gold.

In comparison, the old broken War Wagons used to cost: 150 food and 150 gold. One of the fiercest units in the game now, the Cuirassier, costs the same 300 resources. Yet neither unit can do HALF the stuff the Rifle Rider can.

So pop space must be what's going to keep this unit down, right? Nope.

Population requirement: 2

Ofcourse the bigger joke is that SIOUX START WITH 200 FREE POP SPACE.

So, are we worried yet?

You can cry, but I'm going to laugh. Cause I think to hell with Ottomans and Dutch, I'm heading to Sioux land ...



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
AuthorReplies:
FurKil
Banned
posted 10-11-06 01:51 AM EDT (US)     51 / 56       
Do you know this one:

Otto + dutch have an extremely strong almost uncounterable strat according to you

sioux is even stronger.

So sioux must be severely OP according to our holy ender

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-11-06 02:06 AM EDT (US)     52 / 56       

Quoted from FurKil:

Otto + dutch have an extremely strong almost uncounterable strat according to you

Quote me where I said it was almost uncounterable.

Quoted from FurKil:

sioux is even stronger.

Quote me where I said that Sioux are even stronger than Dutch and Ottomans utilising Saloon units.

Quoted from FurKil:

our holy ender

I'm not holy. I'm holier than thou.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
FurKil
Banned
posted 10-11-06 04:34 AM EDT (US)     53 / 56       
you said in other topic that NOBODY will be building normal units.

You said that otto and dutch can abuse outlaws much better then other civs

You said that spies are useless.

Then my conclussion is that it is uncounterable.


Quote:

Cause I think to hell with Ottomans and Dutch, I'm heading to Sioux land ...


We both know what this implies Ender. That sioux > dutch and otto.

Quote:

I'm not holy. I'm holier than thou


Thats subjective
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-11-06 01:54 PM EDT (US)     54 / 56       

Quoted from FurKil:

you said in other topic that NOBODY will be building normal units.

That's like saying that nobody will be building Cav Archers because Jans, Muskets and Manchu/Kalmucks are available. Is it because Jans/Muskets/etc are overpowered, or because they're more effective, a better choice?

And by the way, the full quote was "NOBODY will be building normal troops anymore. Not when you have the Outlaws in Colonial, and absolutely crazy mercs in Fortress.".
And it's true. Why would people build Skirmishers for 115 resources when they could build Outlaw Riflemen for 90? Is it because the Rifleman is uncounterable, or because it's a better choice?

Quoted from FurKil:

You said that otto and dutch can abuse outlaws much better then other civs

Correct. That's like saying that Spanish and Ottomans (through a super early TP) can best utilise shipments of all the civs. Does it make their faster shipment ability utterly uncounterable?

Quoted from FurKil:

You said that spies are useless.

No, I said Spies are not a good enough counter to ranged Mers and other ranged high firepower units in their current melee implementation. I doubt you'd find a quote of me saying Spies are utterly useless.

Quoted from FurKil:

We both know what this implies Ender. That sioux > dutch and otto.

"Sioux land". Come on, that's clearly a joke. One which most people apparently got.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-12-06 08:45 PM EDT (US)     55 / 56       
I would like to invite Ultimitsu to watch this game:

iamgrunt (Dutch) vs DRĉM (Spanish) on Texas.

It has to do with Ruyters.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Ranger General
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 11:59 AM EDT (US)     56 / 56       
Ender, I have another bad news(in case you aren't going to use sioux). If you do, this is a good news.

The Sioux have acess to an age 2 lv25 card called- "Evening Star"

It works like this:

Quote:


HCXPEveningStar
(Evening Star)

Age 2Level 25Prerequisite tech = HCConestogaWagonsTeam

Turns all your Axe Riders into Rifle Riders.

It turns all of your 160 food, 40 Gold Axe Raider into the dreaded Rifle Riders!

PS: this card would be one of the most OP Sioux cards.


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 10-19-2006 @ 12:02 PM).]

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