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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Is there a civ you refuse to play with?
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Topic Subject:Is there a civ you refuse to play with?
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Y3AH
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 01:30 AM EDT (US)         
Well, if there is a civ you'd rather not play with.. please say which one and why.

For me, this would be the Ottomans. I think the fact that you don't need to que vills makes them too easy and noob-friendly to play with. All you really ever need is a 50/50 ratio of Jans and Abus, throw some spahi into the mix and then all you'll ever need is good micro. I have much respect for those who are innovative with the turks. but this is just how I feel (eventhough they aren't anywhere near being the strongest civ)..

Back when I first started playing Aoe3 I immediately went for Ottomans, of course I would.. I am a turk myself (/me looks with pride into the mirror)- But, I soon discovered (when I changed to Dutch) that it really didn't enhance my skills.

Well, I used to be 1900/2000 on Elo but.. I haven't played Aoe3 since March and what do I know.. things might have changed and I'd like to know what has actually changed. The funniest thing I've thusfar read is that Brits and Russians are OP atm and Germans UP.


A little reminder: Please do not flame one another, as it's really just a matter of opinion. Thank you.

[This message has been edited by Y3AH (edited 10-16-2006 @ 01:32 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Dieneces
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 01:48 AM EDT (US)     1 / 61       
I will not play as the Aztecs.

"You cannot discover an inhabited land. Otherwise I could cross the Atlantic and 'discover' England."
- Dekhatkadons, Onondaga Iroquois chief.
radradrobotanks
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 01:56 AM EDT (US)     2 / 61       
I have played all the civs in the past. That being said, I will likely never play Russia, Portugal, Spain, Ottoman, or Britain again. Russia, Spain, and Ottoman are too predictable, while Britain and Portugal are just boring to play as. I can't spam longbows without feeling lame, and Portugal is just too UP to not be fun to play as.

[This message has been edited by radradrobotanks (edited 10-16-2006 @ 01:57 AM).]

poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 02:01 AM EDT (US)     3 / 61       
I also don't like to play as Ottoman. When I have I've found that you spend a lot of time doing nothing, especially in age 1. Auto-spawning villagers is boring, I like to have more control.

I also don't like to play any civs that people regard as OP. If you do then you don't know whether it's you that's winning or your civ. It's hard to tell whether or not you're getting better. With UP civs, if you win then you know it's because you are playing well, not because your civ is good. For similar reasons I try not to play players ranked lower than me as winning doesn't really mean much.

Just now I'm playing Dutch. I think they're balanced and they suit my play-style very well. I seem to be having a lot more succes with them than with Russian (despite the fact that people think Russia are OP)


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
Y3AH
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 02:29 AM EDT (US)     4 / 61       
Yup, the Dutch are my favorite civ as well. I believe they are very versatile and quite deadly once they get on the roll. However, to get to the point where the Dutch shine.. is quite hard and requires lots of skill and effort: For example, defeating the initial shipments which are thrown to you by Spain.. used to give me the chills. However, I changed to Spain back then as I got frustrated (lost like 5 times in a row vs. Spain). ;p
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 02:33 AM EDT (US)     5 / 61       
Welcome back Y3AH. Been a while.

Personally I can't see myself ever playing:

Russian - The unit mediocrity goes against my very nature. I like to micromanage less numerous but higher quality units (and I'm a Russian myself ).

German - The whole Uhlan thing turns me off. The Settler Wagons confuse me (silly, I know, but hey ...) since they make the villager indicators lie. I can't stand Dopplesoldners, they're just utterly silly units. And I've seen too many War Wagons during 1.06-1.07 to ever want to make those myself. Also their Colonial is boring as hell with the Crossbows. Civs need some flair, such as Brits with Longbows or Spanish with Rods.

British - I tried them, not my thing. Hate the need to boom forever before actually being able to truly go on the offensive.

Portuguese - You're pigeonholed into defensive play while booming. That's my very definition of boring. Oh and no real artillery until Industrial just kills all appeal for me. I need my cannon action.

Iroquoi - they're too "European" for my tastes. Their units (aside from the Ram) are almost copies of the European version. Just too generic and uninspired for my tastes.

Quoted from Y3AH:

I think the fact that you don't need to que vills makes them too easy and noob-friendly to play with.

I hear this alot, but in my opinion all auto-que does is remove the boring routine of having to press "control group/T" then "V" every time a TC finishes production. You might as well make a macro for your keyboard and turn it on/off depending on food supplies.

How can people really find it "fun" to repeat the same simplistic action again and again game after game?

Quoted from Y3AH:

All you really ever need is a 50/50 ratio of Jans and Abus, throw some spahi into the mix and then all you'll ever need is good micro.

Don't need Abus.

Quoted from Y3AH:

Back when I first started playing Aoe3 I immediately went for Ottomans. But, I soon discovered (when I changed to Dutch) that it really didn't enhance my skills.

Exact opposite for me. I started with Dutch on ESO, then switched to Ottomans after a while. Mostly out of frustration with the Skirmisher speed nerf. I found that playing Ottomans after Dutch forced me to "do more with less". Improving battle micro, rather than relying on economic strength to simply grind my opponent down.
These days though I get the benefit of both, thanks to one little strat.

Quoted from Poita:

I also don't like to play as Ottoman. When I have I've found that you spend a lot of time doing nothing, especially in age 1.

In age 1, scouting, treasure hunting, building TPs and fighting other Explorers/Scouts takes up most of my Discovery time. More time to do these things means you get to do them more efficiently.
In Colonial and on, you shouldn't have any spare time. Scouting stil plays a huge part, but most of the time freed up by auto-que should be going into maximising the effectiveness of your units in battle.

I don't know what people do with their "attention cycles" while playing Ottoman, but I try to get every last % of effectiveness out of my military. MUCH more fun than pressing T -> V a hundred times a game.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
somme
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 02:35 AM EDT (US)     6 / 61       

Quote:

(eventhough they aren't anywhere near being the strongest civ)..

They are suprisingly close...

I like playing the Germans and Dutch simply because not that many people play them and I find them fun to play. I don't dislike any particular civ, only players who can only do one strat.


ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
Y3AH
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 03:59 AM EDT (US)     7 / 61       

Quote:

Welcome back Y3AH. Been a while.

Thanks, good to be back. Although I still can't manage to get into ESO.. I am having fun bashing the AI :rolleyes:

Quote:

(and I'm a Russian myself ).

(lol, the irony)


Quoted from Ender_Ward:

How can people really find it "fun" to repeat the same simplistic action again and again game after game?

Well yeah, you do have a point there. However, you would be surprized (or maybe not) by how often people forget to que villagers at certain times i.e., during raids or big fights. It just adds a little more to the game.

Quote:

I found that playing Ottomans after Dutch forced me to "do more with less". Improving battle micro, rather than relying on economic strength to simply grind my opponent down.

That's why I refuse to play with the Ottomans, as I believe that the macro-skill isn't any less important than micro-skills. I guess I'm just afraid that I would rely too much on my civ.. eventually becoming a one-trick-pony (read: "one-civ-pony"). The very reason why I play with the Dutch as often as I do is because it takes so much skill. I want to utilize all my resources to my hearts content. I firmly believe that someone that can play with the dutch can get the full potential out of any other civ in no time.. While I'm afraid that I might become weak with the turks.

I really did enjoy playing with the turks while I was at it, but I believe that the Ottomans are just too unique in a way.. and there will be no civ just like them in the future.


Edit: However, I do understand why you like the turks so much Ender (because we're cute, why else ;p j/k). Especially specializing in one certain civ attracts me the most.. Knowing how many units you need to one-shot a certain enemy unit x.. I am too busy finding the right strat for the dutch right now.. so I can't really specialize upon my micro-skills (not vs. the AI that is).. I hope that I will be able to get onto ESO pretty soon.. having not played the game for nearly half a year while you really want to play - sucks.

[This message has been edited by Y3AH (edited 10-16-2006 @ 04:06 AM).]

bronzepoem
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 04:28 AM EDT (US)     8 / 61       
Also ottoman have too few units. Just jan abus and falconet. Horsearcher is rubbish. Hussar is uesless in late game.

We could compare with Spanish infanty or cav units.

Cordyceps
Naphal
(id: ArchDruid)
posted 10-16-06 04:43 AM EDT (US)     9 / 61       
I can't see myself playing:

Russian - I just don't have any interest.

Spanish - They're overdone.

Portuguese - I grew up in a town full of Portuguese immigrants, I've heard enough of that accent to last me a lifetime.


Just as some bodies, from the moment of birth, are endowed with beauty, while on others nature from their very beginning bestows blemishes and wrinkles, so with souls too, some are distinguished at once with extreme grace and attractiveness, while others leave a trail of sombre and deep gloom. ~Michael Psellus, Chronographia
Yobbo
Skirmisher
(id: Yobbo_ )
posted 10-16-06 04:53 AM EDT (US)     10 / 61       
Germans- Never liked them. Limited options from the start (and because they were lame).

If all things are relative then cannibalism is just a matter of taste...
My AoE3 Stats
Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 05:20 AM EDT (US)     11 / 61       
I can never see myself playing Germans or Iroquois..... I didnt really like them in the demo (being the first time I played both)

I usually just make a civ when I want to use a particular unit, I started with spanish because it said it was the easiest to learn with, then british simply coz I wanted the "redcoats" followed by ports because their cool cassadores made me play them, then finally russian all because of their oprchniks I might make a french civ next Cbd's seem cool... or dutch just to use banks. but theres nothing appealing about ottos but I might make a otto civ later on..... Germany however has no appeal to me whatsoever.

sorry name taken
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 06:28 AM EDT (US)     12 / 61       

Quote:

MUCH more fun than pressing T -> V a hundred times a game.


if i'm not mistaken the vilager pop is limited to 99 and you start with a few of them so pressing T -> V a hundred times a game won't be necesary if you can protect you're villies. and if you're the dutch it's even less! just had to correct you there.
Swirl
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 08:30 AM EDT (US)     13 / 61       
^lol

I refuse to play as ottoman because i would feel lame and play the team i hate :@

Maybe if i played them i would understand them better but i cant bring my self to do it because i hate them so very much!


If u played Stronghold u might enjoy this http://www.zshare.net/download/sh-mix-mix-rar.html
nidhog_slayer
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 08:41 AM EDT (US)     14 / 61       
If you donīt really have nothing else to do whit ottos than make jans and abus, you canīt really play them.

in my opinion, ottoman economy is one of the hardest to handle.

I dont really refuse to play certain civs, but usually, i change civ when its going to be mirror match, since mirror wars arenīt really fun... (ff vs similiar ff, longbowspam vs longbow spam, otto janspam vs otto janspam, russian strel and musket spam vs russian strelet and cossack spam etc.)

tesloid
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 09:17 AM EDT (US)     15 / 61       
Can't stand playing Ottoman -- looking at my barracks and seeing only one unit. Building a foundry just to get the other useful unit... I thought I'd enjoy the removal of the tedium of pressing T-V but instead now I have to watch my vil count and decide when to buy expensive mosque upgrades.

German and French I'm not crazy about because their uniqueness doesn't seem that interesting to me. I really found it boring to level up their cities. The idea of more expensive but better gatherers doesn't work for me as I like to get fighting sooner rather than later.

Russia, Port, Spain, Brit I've played and really enjoyed at one point or another in the last year (in that order). I still like going back and playing any of them, although with so many games I'm growing bored with them.

Dutch was my last civ to really take to and I play them exclusively now. It has been challenging to say the least.

I'll certainly try them all again in the expansion, and the natives. Its too early to judge what you'll play in the expansion pack.

poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 09:26 AM EDT (US)     16 / 61       

Quote:

I hear this alot, but in my opinion all auto-que does is remove the boring routine of having to press "control group/T" then "V" every time a TC finishes production. You might as well make a macro for your keyboard and turn it on/off depending on food supplies.

It's not the action of pressing T+V that's fun but the management that goes into it. With Ottoman you never need to think of your settler production (other than a few church upgrades). Any other civ has to carefully balance their economy to support settlers, military and technology. Ottoman need only balance between military and technology making economy management a lot simpler.

Imagine what the game would be like if all you had to do was build military units while your economy and upgrades are managed for you? Some people might like this type of game but I like to make decisions as it adds to the strategy. Having decisions made for me just makes the game more 1 dimensional.

You might argue that auto-queuing villagers doesn't take away much decision as you almost always continuously build settlers anyway but it makes a huge difference. Unless your doing a discovery schooner boom there is absolutely no reason (that I can think of) why an Ottoman would want to stay in discovery longer. Now if you look at Russians, they have completely different strats depending on whether they age up with 14, 17, 20 or even just 5 settlers.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
Shrink
on the trender train
posted 10-16-06 10:47 AM EDT (US)     17 / 61       
I will never play as the Ottomans. They just don't appeal to me in the slightest, and I don't play the game often enough to get bored of all 10 of the other civs.

MusketKing
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 11:45 AM EDT (US)     18 / 61       
i play otto because i just find them good to play with, v unique
plus theyve never been considered OP (except from like patch 1.0) which is always a bonus
every1 has their own civ or some have civs but this is just mine.

Quote:

I usually just make a civ when I want to use a particular unit, I started with spanish because it said it was the easiest to learn with, then british simply coz I wanted the "redcoats" followed by ports because their cool cassadores made me play them, then finally russian all because of their oprchniks I might make a french civ next Cbd's seem cool... or dutch just to use banks. but theres nothing appealing about ottos but I might make a otto civ later on..... Germany however has no appeal to me whatsoever.


haha this is exactly the same as me
i chose my eso name MusketeerKing before id even played the game just cos i loved the british redcoats
then i thought jans were unbeatable so went to ottos
then saw some1 make instant men from russian b house (which amazed me)(back in the days when i was a no rusher - laugh if u must)
then i saw syncopes russian strelet strangle (i have so much to thank him for :P) which introd me to the wonderful world of rush, now im bk at otts
civs i would never play are brits - cos ive tried and failed with them, and gerrs - just cos i dont like their units. tbh i found it difficult and weird to use the iroq. in the demo so dunno about the natives yet.

"The better at AoE, the worse at RL" - Doppel
After someone suggesting to make a meatshield to fight off petards..."Where can I find this meatshield? Is it in the TC?" - Sjalle

"That last comment has earned you a ban Musk" - Solus
On realising I was on a 2nd account:"Quinarvy ehhh" - Solus

RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR - VERY GG
Mine and Micky's OPness
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 12:11 PM EDT (US)     19 / 61       

Quoted from Poita:

With Ottoman you never need to think of your settler production (other than a few church upgrades).


While an Ottoman has to think about and be careful of raids much more than another civ, because for the longest time, each Ottoman settler lost is equivalent to 3 settlers lost for a "normal" civ.
And thus an Ottoman that "pays no attention" to his economy, as is the common misconception, gets raided to death.
Hell after playing Dutch, I felt "naked" with the Ottomans, what with all the easily raided villagers (that HAVE to hunt, to make up for their low counts, and you can't afford Outposts early usually), instead of the safely tucked away Banks.

Quoted from Poita:

Any other civ has to carefully balance their economy to support settlers, military and technology.


While an Ottoman has to be EXTREMELY careful with his military, especially early on, because he can't replace it at nearly the same rate.

Also, it becomes very, very tricky to balance the cost of the expensive church upgrades and vil caps with the need for military. Hell I remember needing to spend 400 gold on the first vil cap just as a German Merc assault hit you, and you needed every last Abus Gun you could get to survive. Talk about perfect timing ...

~~~

Auto-que comes with many advantages (most in terms of the player's "attention cycles"), but ES built in alot of disadvantages into the system as well. And it takes some playing with the civ to realise it.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 12:13 PM EDT (US)     20 / 61       

Quoted from Y3AH:

Although I still can't manage to get into ESO..

Port troubles? What exactly is the problem? Perhaps we (resident forum junkies) can help.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
MNBob
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 12:17 PM EDT (US)     21 / 61       
Poor Ottos. Ender is definitely a strong advocate for that weak civ.

Here's my challenge for Ender_Ward:
- You select either Portugal or Germany.
- Next find someone who has hardly, if ever, played as Ottoman.
- You both have to have similar 1v1 Cuetech ratings.
- Play 10 games.
- Report back here with the outcome.


Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
MNBob's AOE Page

[This message has been edited by MNBob (edited 10-16-2006 @ 12:18 PM).]

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 12:31 PM EDT (US)     22 / 61       
Heh, I don't consider my Ottomans weak.

And please, dear god, anything but Portugal, Russia or Germany. I CAN'T STAND those civs.

I'll do France (even with my level 15 or something like that HC), Dutch or hell even Brits (though my HC too is sub level 30)!
Portugese, Russians and Germans would just be torture.

Quoted from MNBob:

- Next find someone who has hardly, if ever, played as Ottoman.
- You both have to have similar 1v1 Cuetech ratings.

That might be kinda difficult to make happen. Considering that the vast majority of people around my level (2259 1v1) have played Ottomans, either moderately or alot.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."

[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 10-16-2006 @ 12:34 PM).]

TarsTarkas
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 12:53 PM EDT (US)     23 / 61       

Quoted from Ender_Ward:

I'll do France (even with my level 15 or something like that HC), Dutch or hell even Brits (though my HC too is sub level 30)!

Lol... all of my home cities are below level 30 And i've never played Ottoman, but my ELO probably isnt nearly as high as yours. :P

When my friend and I first got the game, I vowed never to use Ottoman because we couldnt figure out why they were in it. I regret that alot now (they are his best civ) because the Ottomans sound pretty cool, but I guess I'll just stick with the Dutch/Portuguese/Spanish.


" Studies have shown that people who say "Gameplay>Realism" are less likely to find girlfriends or lead a successful, rational life in the real world.

To see these studies for yourself, please click here."

~ Cy Marlayne

ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 01:38 PM EDT (US)     24 / 61       
i dont find any civs repulsive enough that i dont want to play them, but across different patchs, i never felt like playing OP civs.

when you win with them, you feel crap, when you lose, you feel even worse lol.

Voltiguer
Skirmisher
posted 10-16-06 02:12 PM EDT (US)     25 / 61       
When I lamed I felt great... j/k just to piss off some "lamer" cryers
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