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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » HC Shipment; Resources or Increase Resource Gather Rate?
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Topic Subject:HC Shipment; Resources or Increase Resource Gather Rate?
Frostman
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 09:37 AM EDT (US)         
Hi All,

I'm sure this has already been debated multiple times. Please forgive me, as I've only recently bought the game (e.g. new blood for you to pound on)

My guess is that someone already has compiled a comparison as to the effectiveness of sending resources (shipments of food/wood/gold) verses sending the gather rate increase cards (+15 or +20 %).

When is each more applicable? Obviously, for a rushing strat, you want the resources asap. However, even when using a booming strat, I find myself sending the resources directly, rather than getting in an early + wood gathering rate.

Anyone have thoughts regarding this, or could post a URL to some tests?

Thanks a bunch!

-pete

[This message has been edited by Frostman (edited 10-19-2006 @ 09:41 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 09:46 AM EDT (US)     1 / 7       
You have the right kind of idea. For rushes you want the 'instant' resources whereas for booming you'd more likely want the rate increaser cards.

The thing is though, that at any sort of competetive level speed is everything. I rarely see people with the increased rate cards in their decks because really they don't pay off quick enough. You usually have to gather around 4000-6000 resources to make the rate improvement better than sending 700 resources. Even then the 700 resources still have a greater net present value since they can be invested almost instantly.

I'm pretty sure the rate improvement cards are better in The War Chiefs so they might be useful now.


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parallax8d
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 10:14 AM EDT (US)     2 / 7       
They are only good in no rush games. Or if you are lucky enough to have a long drawn out game. Cards are just too scarce to blow on specific gather rate increases. The exception would be if you are doing a LOT of gathering of one resource for a long time. Like wood for Brits perhaps.

Although the new card that gives 10% to all gather rates would be a nice 5th or 6th card for any game. And the market techs pay for themselves pretty quickly if you only research the ones you need and don't need the resources desperately.

Khaleb
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 10:57 AM EDT (US)     3 / 7       
Don't ignore playstyles. They are a not only a matter of individual taste, but can result from civ pairings, map circumstances, longterm perspectives.

Certain ways to play AOE3 implicate different timing.
A personal example: If I play French against an Otto I KNOW I am not going to be on the offensive for the first 5 to 10 minutes after getting to colonial age (I know others can do it, but paradoxically I feel more in charge if I let the Otto come), it isn't my plan, I often know quite well how to let an Otto rush crash in the middle of my base and how to get the upper hand again slowly, but I am not starting to return the offensive favor before cuirs and falcs arrive. For the anti-rush management I am perfectly happy with the quartermaster wood and maybe one 700 shipment of food if hunting starts to become too dangerous. Afterwards my economy skyrockets compared to his, thanks to wood upgrade card and refrigeration card (and well, coureurs ^^), which I played somewhere along the ride in colonial, usually in a short "lull"-phase.

But independent from an example like that: especially now that decks will contain up to 25 cards those strong upgrades seem perfectly legitimate to me.

Furthermore: for me there always was a psychological reason to go for gather rate upgrades, which I admit wont convince everybody. Let's say you ship 700 gold and use it to get 7 abu guns extra. You walk them to the frontline, blink for a second or watch some other action and oops they get eaten alive by a 3 hussar shipment. I know things like that SHOULD not happen, but they do, mistakes like that happen all the time, even to experts. Anyway, in cases like this it's as if the gold shipment never arrived, while an upgrade card (and even more the new trickle cards) are failsafe in that aspect, you can fock up occasionally and still profit from that shipment for the rest of the game.

Swirl
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 11:08 AM EDT (US)     4 / 7       
I think that in every situation the resource cards are better...

Using ur example of a rush u want the resources faster.

If ur booming u might want to get to fortress to get more TCs therefore 700gold would be usefull.

Once ur in fort for a boom u would want 1000 wood...or more food for vils or w/e.

Like people have sed the gather rate cards dont pay off fast enough to be better in a standard game.

Oh ^ while u brought it up...are the trickle cards almost useless...wat 1.25 gold a second? How about ur vil shipments? Its definately not gonna be used in rush(dont think anyone can prove me wrong ) And its not exactly a card for booming...i just think its useless.


If u played Stronghold u might enjoy this http://www.zshare.net/download/sh-mix-mix-rar.html
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 11:31 AM EDT (US)     5 / 7       
I've seen Hope Finn use the Team rum distillary which increases plantation gather rates.

The team rate cards can be useful in team games


Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
Makita
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 12:04 PM EDT (US)     6 / 7       
Do you guys think the gather rate cards would be better if they were a rate/resource combo?

For example, instead of 700 gold or +20% gold gather rate, something like "350 gold plus +10% gather rate".

Actually, I think even current gather rate cards need to have some up front bonus. Maybe "300 gold +20% rate" in age 2.

Khaleb
Skirmisher
posted 10-19-06 12:07 PM EDT (US)     7 / 7       

Quote:

Using ur example of a rush u want the resources faster.

Well, technically my example was antirush, which isn't about hitting hard and fast but bleeding out an opponent without him realising it
And there I don't want my ressources fast, I want to consolidate the fact that I have more staying-power. Which is perfectly covered by strong upgrade cards.
But as I said, that's depending on civ and playstyle, I do this with French and Dutch against rushers for a reason.

On a side note: Expensive military combined with bad economy (in other words: the Otto-situation in colonial) is, to put it mildly, an ambigous "advantage". Of course the silk road fashion has changed that quite a bit.

Quote:

Oh ^ while u brought it up...are the trickle cards almost useless...wat 1.25 gold a second? How about ur vil shipments? Its definately not gonna be used in rush(dont think anyone can prove me wrong ) And its not exactly a card for booming...i just think its useless.

Funny thing is: looking beneath the surface villagers are nothing else than upgrade cards - because the only thing that is of interest: 17 villagers are bringing in res faster than 14 - , upgrades that cost pop and are raidable, but on the other hand with flexible application (not bound to a ressource). Still everyone thinks they are absolutely necessary.
A trickle is like 2.5 villagers without upgrades, but again: it never has idle times, doesn't walk from there to there, doesn't have to hide in TC, doesn't get slaughtered by hussars, needs no house, never stops ...
So don't tell me it's unthinkable to send a trickle card.

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