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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Janey the Pet Jaguar, both useful and useless
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Topic Subject:Janey the Pet Jaguar, both useful and useless
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poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 07:00 AM EDT (US)         
Janey the Pet Jaguar
HP: 190
Damage: 10 with x3 to guardian and x0.1 to settlers
Cost: 225 food

Janey the Pet jaguar is a pet made available to the Aztecans through shipments. There are shipments that simply give you a few jaguars and a shipment that enables your war chief to produce them.

In Discovery Age you can ship 4 pet jaguars. On any treasure heavy map I will always send this shipment first. The jaguars do 30 damage to guardians and have 190hp, which means that you can literally get every treasure on the map (except those stupid explorer HP ones that are guarded by 8 pirates or something equally ridiculous). Also, they pay for themselves very quickly, I've had my 3rd shipment ready by 3:30 on several occasions just by killing treasure guardians (no, I didn't have anyone on the gift dance before you say anything.) Also, you mass such a huge army of rescued and converted animals that you can even help significantly in fending off rushes.

That's the useful part, now for the useless part. Aside from the actual jaguar shipments there is a card that enables your explorer to build more Janeys... for 225 food each.

What the hell is that!? 225 food for something with 10 melee attack! I think a quick comparison to the Spanish war dog is necessary:

War Dog
HP: 85
Damage: 18 with x0.25 to settlers
Cost: 75 food

The war dogs cost exactly one third of a jaguar. So what do 3 war dogs look like?

3x War Dog
HP: 255
Damage: 54
Cost: 225 food

So there, for the same cost you get 65 more HP, 44 more damage (!) with 24 more damage to guardians. Not to mention that the War dogs can see stealth and you don't need to send a card to build them.

The 4 jaguars in age 1 shipment is simply amazing, IMO it's the one of the best Aztec cards. Aparantly ES thinks that those 4 jaguars are worth 900 food... yeah right. They're good but they're not THAT good. I think that the jaguars need a SERIOUS cost reduction if I'm even going to consider producing them otherwise we're just going to have yet another card added onto the Useless cards list.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
AuthorReplies:
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 07:40 AM EDT (US)     1 / 32       
Well at least it means that you ensure yourself of taking down the enemy WC/Explorer, and you'll get lots of treasures.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 08:06 AM EDT (US)     2 / 32       
Yeah, the shipped ones are amazing, I have no complaints about them at all but buying them is just ridiculous.

- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
rel4xed
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 08:46 AM EDT (US)     3 / 32       
Which maps are worth shipping jaguars on? I mean, apart from yukon and yucatan.

Greetings, I'm Synthax.
SirKT 2k+ clan
poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 09:11 AM EDT (US)     4 / 32       
I send it on most maps. As long as there are more than a few treasures I think it is worth it. It doesn't really matter too much what the treasures are. You get the most reward from the xp of killing the units since the Aztec war chief increases the xp you get. You just go round killing everything whether you want the treasure or not.

- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
darkrain
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 09:56 AM EDT (US)     5 / 32       
janey is expensive because es thinks shes op with the hc shipment that boosts her. clearly they went a little over board, though.
poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 10:09 AM EDT (US)     6 / 32       

Quote:

janey is expensive because es thinks shes op with the hc shipment that boosts her. clearly they went a little over board, though.

lol yeah. 35% hitpoints and damage in Industrial age!

I have no idea why they would price them the way they are now. It's just pointless. I thank ES for making such a good game and at least trying to keep it balanced but sometimes when things are as obvious as this it's just not acceptable. I mean, people are being paid to make these decisions.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
Beatnik Joe
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 11:01 AM EDT (US)     7 / 32       

Quoted from poita:

I've had my 3rd shipment ready by 3:30 on several occasions just by killing treasure guardians


*spits drink all over the monitor* Are you serious?? That is amazing. I'm going to be giving this card another look.

Thanks a ton for pointing this card out -- I had completely written Janey off after looking at her stats and cost. Right now, I just robotically ship 3 villagers each and every time. I never considered how nice 4 Janeys for an early shipment would be. As if the Aztecs weren't already fun enough, now I can play in Discovery age too.

Are there any particular maps where you do not send the Janey card? I'm still figuring all these maps out.


Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
AuxiliA MieS
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 11:36 AM EDT (US)     8 / 32       
Caribbean

M3 15 ur l0rd 4and m45t3r. Y0us4 g0tt4 d0 wh4t 1 t3ll y3r.
zion_CDawg
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 11:37 AM EDT (US)     9 / 32       
Yeah... you don't want to send Janey on Bayou, Sonora, Orinco (sp?)

Not enough treasures on those (just a few poorly defended ones)

Squints
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 11:50 AM EDT (US)     10 / 32       
I like the early animal cards. 5 bears for Iroquois are kinda nice.

The cost for the jaguars to build them is way out of whack considering you can build 12 wolves for 85 food each. 115 HP and 9 attack.

poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 11:58 AM EDT (US)     11 / 32       

Quote:

Are there any particular maps where you do not send the Janey card? I'm still figuring all these maps out.

Can't really remember off the top of my head. There's a couple of new ones that have practically no treasures. I usually try to scout as much as I can with my explorer before I get my first card just so I have an idea of the treasures.

Quote:

I just robotically ship 3 villagers each and every time. I never considered how nice 4 Janeys for an early shipment would be. As if the Aztecs weren't already fun enough, now I can play in Discovery age too.

Yeah I used to just ship 3 vils everytime but I decided to give the other cards a try and found Janeys. It's really fun because it gives you lots to do during discovery (although it has made me forget to cue settlers at times!)

@ZION_CDawg

I agree about Sonora and Orinoco but Bayou usually has some heavily guarded treasures. Like I said before, they don't have to necessary have good things in them, it's the guardian kill xp that really does the magic.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 02:06 PM EDT (US)     12 / 32       
Just did a quick test on Yucatan to see exactly how well the jaguars do. By 8 minutes I had the following:

Treasures
30 wood
40 xp
100 food
Tamed jaguar
105 coin
300 wood
160 wood
455 coin

So that's a total of 1150 resources from treasure plus 40 xp and a jaguar. This doesn't include the several units I converted on the way. The enemy AI actually sent 3 uhlans + 2 dopps to my explorer and I managed to take them out with my pet army.

I had my 3rd shipment by 4 minutes. I might of exagerrated with the 3:30 but it is possible if you find a decent sized xp treasure early on.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)

[This message has been edited by poita (edited 10-31-2006 @ 02:07 PM).]

Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 03:15 PM EDT (US)     13 / 32       
I'd reccomend shipping jaguars on any map with at least 2-3 big treasures, but never ship it against Sioux IMO since you'll never get their explorer. Your better off saving that shipment for age2 economy or something else against Sioux.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
mista_mista
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 03:17 PM EDT (US)     14 / 32       
Hmm, I never thought of sending jaguars. I'll try it out, thanks for nice find

ESO2: mista_mista
"Baby, you like shopping? Well, I like sieging town centers and raiding villagers..." -DONofCHRON
"Then theres the aztecs. With their 35 guys on the pit they can spit out vills faster than george bush can spit out troops into Iraq." -Cookiecrisp13
Beatnik Joe
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 03:18 PM EDT (US)     15 / 32       

Quoted from poita:

Treasures
...100 food
Tamed jaguar
105 coin...


Hey, that makes 5 Janeys total! OP! Seriously, that's a very nice haul. I am convinced. If the next map that I play is not completely sucktacular, I'm going to take the Janeys for a spin (er, assuming I can afford the card without leveling.)

I think that in a real game vs. Sioux or some other rusher, I'd be more likely to bring the Warchief and all Janeys with me onto the battlefield once fighting commences, so it'd be hard to get a full treasure hunting session in. But even setting that aside, you really wound up with a lot of good stuff.

I'm assuming that you leave out most fancy treasure hunting micro when you play the 4 Jaguar card. It seems like the simple "convert strongest guardian and then charge in" approach would be the most time efficient in the typical cases... but I could be wrong.


Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 03:27 PM EDT (US)     16 / 32       

Quote:

never ship it against Sioux IMO since you'll never get their explorer

You don't need to get their explorer to pay the shipment off Just look at the results I had above on yucatan.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 04:28 PM EDT (US)     17 / 32       
Do "Janeys" auto-upgrade on aging as all the other pets?

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
poita
Skirmisher
posted 10-31-06 04:38 PM EDT (US)     18 / 32       

Quote:

Do "Janeys" auto-upgrade on aging as all the other pets?

Yep. I know for a fact that in colonial age they get +20% hp and attack. I can't remember what it goes to after that.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
Beatnik Joe
Skirmisher
posted 11-01-06 04:41 PM EDT (US)     19 / 32       
So it just hit me -- what makes this approach so powerful is that the Aztec Warchief provides that double XP aura! I believe the rule is that he must not strike the last killing blow for the bonus to work (edit: emphasis added.) Still, in general that has to be a very nice additional XP bonus to what you're racking up during Discovery. This means pet shipments are more valuable to an Aztec than to any other nation. You're getting 2x as much XP as anyone else does when they stomp map-critters.

That really helps show how it's possible to get that 3rd shipment ready to go at 3:30-4:00 if you have the Janey the Pet Jaguars out killing things in the Warchief's presence.

Given this, I think this is a great way to maximize the Aztec Warchief's bonus early on. Now I just need to level a bit more.


Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style

[This message has been edited by Beatnik Joe (edited 11-01-2006 @ 05:55 PM).]

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 11-01-06 04:44 PM EDT (US)     20 / 32       
The very thought of getting 50XP per each Polar Bear on Yukon is enough to make me salivate ...

And the treasures these Bears are guarding ... *drool*


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
pedro1989
Skirmisher
posted 11-01-06 05:16 PM EDT (US)     21 / 32       
Interesting idea, I'll try it out.
what im wondering is how this affects your eco and age up time. And if you ship 4 jaguars, what do you use for your second shipment? 3 vills, or wait for age II and then ship 5 vills?
Beatnik Joe
Skirmisher
posted 11-01-06 05:59 PM EDT (US)     22 / 32       
All told, given what I mentioned above, it seems like it's pretty important to micro the Warchief so that he won't be doing all the killing. From what I understand, the XP bonus only applies if Janey or one of the other assistant butt-kickers does the deed.

Has anyone attempted this kind of micro? Sounds like it could be a bit demanding, but certainly possible if not too much else is going on.


Strategies:
- BWKiC - A British Fast Fortress strategy
- The Aztec Scout Slam- An Envoy Rush, Native-Style
Cancer of the Head
Skirmisher
(id: say1988)
posted 11-01-06 07:04 PM EDT (US)     23 / 32       
Do you build a firepitand use your warrior priest on it, or do you send him off with the explorer and pets?
poita
Skirmisher
posted 11-02-06 01:45 AM EDT (US)     24 / 32       

Quote:

I'm assuming that you leave out most fancy treasure hunting micro when you play the 4 Jaguar card. It seems like the simple "convert strongest guardian and then charge in" approach would be the most time efficient in the typical cases... but I could be wrong.

Yeah more or less. Sometimes on the bigger treasures I try a bit of micro. If you convert a ranged guardian then have him shoot the guardians first and have your janeys meathsield him. The guardians will try to run round the janeys in an attempt to get to him, allowing your janeys to give 'em hell.

Quote:

I believe the rule is that he must not strike the last killing blow for the bonus to work

I was not aware of this. Thanks for pointing that out, I'll keep it in mind next time I use this. I always thought that sometimes I wasn't getting double xp, now I know why!

Quote:

what im wondering is how this affects your eco and age up time. And if you ship 4 jaguars, what do you use for your second shipment? 3 vills, or wait for age II and then ship 5 vills?

I'm still not decided on what to do with all the shipments. Sometimes I send 3 settlers but other times I keep it for colonial and send 5 like you say. It doesn't really affect your eco much. You can usually just get the 3 settlers out by 3 minutes anyway. The treasures you collect give you a nice advantage early game so I definitely think it's worth it.

Quote:

Do you build a firepitand use your warrior priest on it, or do you send him off with the explorer and pets?

What I usually do now is build a fire pit, set the priest to it on the gift dance until I get my 1st shipment then set him to fertility dance. I never bring him with me, 20% villy production is too much to miss, especially since Aztecs have such a slow start.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 11-10-06 04:44 PM EDT (US)     25 / 32       
i think the reason pet jaguars are so expensive is because Aztec XP bonus, ES must thought that if they were as cheap as other pets then Aztec will always make hem and get massive XPs from guardians etc, which will become OP.

they may be right.

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