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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » russian settler train time was increased in TWC
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Topic Subject:russian settler train time was increased in TWC
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MNBob
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 02:27 PM EDT (US)         
Someone mentioned this at agesanctuary so I went and looked in the data files. TWC increase russian settler train time by 10% compared to aoe3.

In aoe3, 3 settlers trained in 50 seconds.
In twc, 3 settlers trains in 55 seconds.


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AuthorReplies:
zlad
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 02:36 PM EDT (US)     1 / 40       
But they still spawn faster than regular villagers , right ?
Unthinking_Pain
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 02:39 PM EDT (US)     2 / 40       
Much faster - regular villagers build in 25 seconds, so 75 seconds/3 villagers.
Voltiguer
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 02:48 PM EDT (US)     3 / 40       
Great change.
DGJH
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 03:19 PM EDT (US)     4 / 40       
That is a good thought on that
StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 11-07-06 03:22 PM EDT (US)     5 / 40       
Aw poo

Makes sense, just delays my colonial time 15-20 seconds which can hurt.


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FriedPegasus
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 03:26 PM EDT (US)     6 / 40       
It can hurt a lot. I don't know if a 17 villager up is even pratical anymore, ~5:20 is kinda late against most civs.
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 03:50 PM EDT (US)     7 / 40       
Thank God, Russia gained vils 1.5 times faster than most vils that didn't have an auto/free economical bonus, so this is a nice and fair nerf. Can't believe it wasn't noticed before though!

Thanks for the heads up.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 04:18 PM EDT (US)     8 / 40       
Good. The Russian boom may have been slow to start (and most just rushed you instead), but once it got going it was simply ridiculous.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 04:22 PM EDT (US)     9 / 40       

Quote:

It can hurt a lot. I don't know if a 17 villager up is even pratical anymore, ~5:20 is kinda late against most civs.

Russia still recieves there 300 wood shipment at the same time, and can still construct their barracks in age1 so they always have their barracks up in time for arrival upon age2. So yea, there age up is a bit delayed, but look at the natives who all have slow age ups as well, unless they sacrifice all age up units/res for the fast age up. Overall there age up is delayed by 20 seconds.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Squints
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 04:24 PM EDT (US)     10 / 40       
Great... Now all they have to do is give them some settler cards and everything works out.

What were they smoking at ES? Block training is a pain for everything else besides settlers. So they nerf settler production too?

You'd think they could at least fix the medicine card then.

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 11-07-06 04:29 PM EDT (US)     11 / 40       
The villager train speed was Russias civ bonus Now why'd they have to go and nerf that...

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 04:35 PM EDT (US)     12 / 40       
The bonus is stil there, just not as good (Russians now save 20 seconds per 3 villagers, instead of 25 seconds). Kinda like the German bonus.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Cyclohexane
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 01:51 PM EDT (US)     13 / 40       
I didnt notice this. I checked the medicine card to verify it was still bugged and thought it had no effect but did not check the base Russian vill train time. With medicine, Russian settlers train at 50 seconds. So yes it is still bugged since it only lowers rate by ~10% (not 15% as stated), but at least there is some effect. The same thing can be said about British Manor spawn rate and medice (not 15% and not worth it).

Still not a useful card for a Russian deck.


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unjugon
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 01:56 PM EDT (US)     14 / 40       
Makes sense, Russian was pwning everyone in vanilla (NOT)

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Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 02:26 PM EDT (US)     15 / 40       
I think this nerf was unnecessary, Russia was hardly ruling in vanilla, people started to work out how to counter them shortly before twc's release, and now they are nowhere near too good.

20 seconds slower colonial time is big for russians, that's 20 seconds more time to take down their forward blockhouse, or 20 seconds more time to prepare for their first very strong wave of 2 unit batches + a shipment.

Squints
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 04:42 PM EDT (US)     16 / 40       
There is a difference between producing a block of 3 settlers every 55 seconds and being able to produce one settler every 18.33 seconds. You cant age while producing settlers.

I wonder what changed for Russia that they needed this change? Was economic theory too powerfull with block training? Its a 10% add so they dropped the production rate by 10%

If they are dropping the production speed maybe they should add one more settler. That would give you a 15 vill age up.

rel4xed
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 04:45 PM EDT (US)     17 / 40       
The fact that this wasnt noticed until now, 3 weeks after release, clearly shows that the nerf was very slight.

Greetings, I'm Synthax.
SirKT 2k+ clan
Lightning_Rider
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 04:58 PM EDT (US)     18 / 40       
I actually noticed it almost right away. I noticed I was aging much later with 17 vils.
rel4xed
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 05:15 PM EDT (US)     19 / 40       
still it was needed IMO - russia was indeed ruling vanilla. It's generally agreed that russia is and was the second best civ in vanilla after spain (the only civ that could ff vs them, apart from ottomans maybe). Logically they should be even more powerful now since the game is even more about colonial.

Greetings, I'm Synthax.
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Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 05:21 PM EDT (US)     20 / 40       
Synthax did you play russia in 1.08 by any chance? They could be taken by an equally skilled french, dutch and spanish player. The only civs which russia "ruled" was germany, and brits if they just spammed longbows. Ports just depended on whether the map was water or not (ports would be tough to beat with russia on water).
Squints
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 05:39 PM EDT (US)     21 / 40       
<snip>
It's generally agreed that russia is and was the second best civ in vanilla after spain


So only the second best civ gets a nerf, not the best?

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 06:05 PM EDT (US)     22 / 40       

Quoted from Adam42:

They could be taken by an equally skilled french, dutch and spanish player.

Dutch?
Dutch?!
DUTCH?!!

Did you mean to say "Ottoman" instead of "Dutch"?



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
poita
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 06:12 PM EDT (US)     23 / 40       
Dutch can take out the blockhouse early by quickly aging up and sending 8 pikes and building a few hussars. I've done it quite a few times myself. After that just send 2 outposts and boom like crazy while keeping up a decent number of skirms+hussars.

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Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 06:20 PM EDT (US)     24 / 40       
That strategy revolves more around luck than brute force IMO. I mean what if they do a real good job hiding it, or build it defensively and then proceed to take map control after gaining strelets?

And I think your being sarcastic about Germany and Britain vs Russia, right larky?

I also fail to see how France "pwnd" Russia, if anything France was one of the few civs that could remain somewhat competitive against them, but that didn't mean always owning them.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 07:46 PM EDT (US)     25 / 40       

Quoted from poita:

Dutch can take out the blockhouse early by quickly aging up and sending 8 pikes and building a few hussars.

Simply taking out a forward Blockhouse and making a few Hussars does not win one the game against good Russian players.

Especially the smarter types who FF, boom their ass off while raiding you to death with Oprichnicks, instead of rushing as expected.

Just because Dutch could defeat Russian players un 1.08-1.09, doesn't mean they were a good match. They had even more trouble than Ottomans. My issues is not that it's impossible for Dutch to defeat Russians. Clearly it is possible. My issue is with Adam putting Dutch in the list of civs that have an easy time againt Russians. To put Dutch near Spain in terms of anti-Russian effectiveness, to me, is crazy.



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
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