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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » russian settler train time was increased in TWC
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Topic Subject:russian settler train time was increased in TWC
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MNBob
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-06 02:27 PM EDT (US)         
Someone mentioned this at agesanctuary so I went and looked in the data files. TWC increase russian settler train time by 10% compared to aoe3.

In aoe3, 3 settlers trained in 50 seconds.
In twc, 3 settlers trains in 55 seconds.


Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
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AuthorReplies:
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 11-08-06 08:02 PM EDT (US)     26 / 40       
I seem to recall ourk once saying "Dutch don't stand a chance against a competent russian player." This was after he beat Groni's hussar + pike BH takedown rush twice in a row...
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-06 09:19 PM EDT (US)     27 / 40       
Yea ... I even recall a Love rec where he did the same and then even sea boomed with a few banks but it was too late ...

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
poita
Skirmisher
posted 11-09-06 04:14 AM EDT (US)     28 / 40       

Quote:

My issue is with Adam putting Dutch in the list of civs that have an easy time againt Russians.

Heh, you're puting words in his mouth. Here is what he said:

Quote:

They could be taken by an equally skilled french, dutch and spanish player.

No sign of it being easy. I think the point is that Russians don't 'rule' Dutch.

Quote:

That strategy revolves more around luck than brute force IMO. I mean what if they do a real good job hiding it, or build it defensively and then proceed to take map control after gaining strelets?

There is a little luck involved, I agree. I always try to find the vils as they leave his base, and usually do. Dutch have both and envoy and an explorer. Used well you can almost always find the forward vils or the forward blockhouse. Scouting for the 300 wood crate is your way of knowing that he is rushing and doing so is incredibly easy: just camp at his base around the time you get your first shipment and see what comes out

Quote:

Simply taking out a forward Blockhouse and making a few Hussars does not win one the game against good Russian players.

Especially the smarter types who FF, boom their ass off while raiding you to death with Oprichnicks, instead of rushing as expected.

Actually, I've found that when you take down the blockhouse, it gives you an amazing advantage. It completely knocks the Russian off his feet and puts him on the defensive. Just circle around his base with hussars, trying to pick off vils while bank booming at home. It doesn't take long to get to fortress and build my favourite unit combo (swiss pikes + falcs, mmmmm).

Most Russian players really optimize their strelet rush to use every last resource effectively. Destroying the BH puts them 250w behind. Building another blockhouse usually starved them for wood, and they lose the ability to build houses/strelets as fast as they normally could.

As for the FF'ing Russian. Yes, they are a bigger problem but in this respect I think the civs are quite even. Dutch has a better eco upon hitting fort while Russia can be more aggressive in early fort. I would hardly say the Russia ruled Dutch though in any aspect.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 11-09-06 11:53 AM EDT (US)     29 / 40       

Quote:

Heh, you're puting words in his mouth. Here is what he said:

No sign of it being easy. I think the point is that Russians don't 'rule' Dutch.

Thank you poita. That is what I meant.

Quote:

That strategy revolves more around luck than brute force IMO. I mean what if they do a real good job hiding it, or build it defensively and then proceed to take map control after gaining strelets?

If the blockhouse is built close to your TC it's going down if the Dutch player does this properly, no two ways about it. With your envoy there is also very small chance that it will remain hidden.

And like poita said taking down the russian blockhouse early completely throws him off, once you take down the BH vs a rushing russian player you have a huge advantage, it takes a higher skilled player to come back from it.

Look you can come up with strats all day about how Russia can beat the Dutch, but hey I know that russia can beat dutch, but I'm also saying that dutch can beat russia.

Quote:

I seem to recall ourk once saying "Dutch don't stand a chance against a competent russian player." This was after he beat Groni's hussar + pike BH takedown rush twice in a row...

If you think Groni is anywhere near as good as Ourk then... well... he isn't.

Even I beat Groni, with GERMANY WTFHAX.

Quote:

And I think your being sarcastic about Germany and Britain vs Russia, right larky?

About Russia owning germany and brits vs russia being balanced if the brit player doesn't just spam longbows? No, I wasn't being sarcastic. Tip: hussars and towers.
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 11-09-06 06:39 PM EDT (US)     30 / 40       
Poita and Adam, you both missed my point. Dutch have nowhere close to the same counter-Russian effectiveness as French and in particular Spanish. But that's what Adam wrote strongly implied.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 11-09-06 09:27 PM EDT (US)     31 / 40       
Balanced = Fair. It's not fair when a 2000 Russian player can even compete with a 2200 Britain player, putting aside the fact who wins. Honestly, it takes lots more skill to defend an Otto and Russian rush with many civs than it is to rush with these two civs.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
poita
Skirmisher
posted 11-09-06 09:39 PM EDT (US)     32 / 40       

Quote:

But that's what Adam wrote strongly implied.

I didn't interpret it like that at all. I just read it as saying that Russia did not 'rule' Dutch, not necessarily to the same degree as French and Spain.


- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 11-09-06 10:26 PM EDT (US)     33 / 40       
Brits vs russia is quite a fair matchup. Just send 2 towers and age with one and secure half the map while spamming lbows. Brit boom > russian boom. Or you could (God forbid) make some hussars or something....

Brits vs ottos is much harder, but I haven't played that matchup in quite a while (haven't played brits in a month or so) so I'm not exactly sure how one would go about it :P

As for russian train time, I like the idea. The fact that they now age at like 5:20 is kinda meh though.

somme
Skirmisher
posted 11-10-06 12:55 PM EDT (US)     34 / 40       

Quote:

Brits vs ottos is much harder, but I haven't played that matchup in quite a while (haven't played brits in a month or so) so I'm not exactly sure how one would go about it :P

DAMNIT seemed to think Brits could take Ottomans without that much difficulty.. He even beat Grunt's Ottoman o_O

ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
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Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 11-10-06 02:31 PM EDT (US)     35 / 40       
Grunt didn't use the IOR.

Even I beat a guy in the top 25 (M4rky) using Brits, while doing the IOR on Great Lakes. That's how badly Ottomans own Brits when their economies are even close to equalised.
Something tells me if Grunt was aware of the IOR, he would've easily owned DAMNIT too.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
TOO_Saruman
Skirmisher
posted 11-10-06 03:51 PM EDT (US)     36 / 40       
what is with all this Brits are UP crap....in vanilla they were one of the strongest civs.

ESO: empirejoao3
Clan:Proud
"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 11-10-06 05:34 PM EDT (US)     37 / 40       
You didnt even use abus that game ender. Had you used those, he would have been dead much sooner lol.
panda234
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 09:43 AM EDT (US)     38 / 40       
ESO should come up with a system where they notify people of what changes occur with the patch. That way we wouldn't have to find out on the boards or, worse, get surprised in game and be left wondering why a particular strategy isn't working anymore. That would be pretty frustrating.

I don't know, maybe they could call it Release Notes?

Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 09:58 AM EDT (US)     39 / 40       

Quote:

Poita and Adam, you both missed my point. Dutch have nowhere close to the same counter-Russian effectiveness as French and in particular Spanish. But that's what Adam wrote strongly implied.

I am aware of that. Which is why I clarified it.

Quote:

Balanced = Fair. It's not fair when a 2000 Russian player can even compete with a 2200 Britain player, putting aside the fact who wins. Honestly, it takes lots more skill to defend an Otto and Russian rush with many civs than it is to rush with these two civs.

What 2000/2200 players are you talking about? I lost to a 1800 german with my 2100 ottos a while ago as well, what you said was no way a lower skilled player should be able to compete... therefore 1.08 germany = OP?

Reality: I played exceptionally badly and deserved to bashed by a noob.

Btw, my experience: the last 2 brit players I've faced with russians was Hippo and Overclock. At the time both players were 2200 like me and both games lasted over 30 minutes (the one with Overclock was over 1 hour long), I won one against Hippo.. lost against overclock. Why was it so even? Because they knew what I was doing and countered it - you are having trouble against russians not because the matchup is imbalanced but because YOU have no idea about how to counter it, and while it is understandable that you should blame the game it is just your fault that you can't beat them.

Fact 1: russia has the weakest anticav in age 2
Fact 2: russia has the worst siege in age 2

Take advantage of that or lose.

unjugon
Skirmisher
posted 11-13-06 05:55 AM EDT (US)     40 / 40       
Those 5 more seconds for the vills to come out is enough to make me not play the Russians.
As I recall it, it was hard enough to win with them BEFORE the nerf, which was uncalled for. (sorry Ender)

My blog, for WC3 and AoE3 strats and articles:
http://unjugon.blogspot.com/
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