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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Aztecs lategame
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Topic Subject:Aztecs lategame
brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 05:39 PM EDT (US)         
Aztecs are said to be great boomers and they are wtih 208% unit production speed from 10 warrior rpiests.

While all this is great and im usually at 99 vilsl first and with much more resources, I just cant seem to beat other palyers, most ntoably the iroquois.

Whenever my coyotes/maces go up against equally upgraded tomas/wakinas (and occasionally light cannons)

i seem to lose the fights, possibly my micro is always worse then the toher player, but with more resources i woudle xpect i could at least gridn them down.

I notice expert decks seem to have many knight upgrades and knight shipments, but i just cant seem to find regular uses for eagles (as no one seems to use cav against me) arrows (since coyotes do fine vs cannon) or jags(its always an LI war).

should i just have my jags go stealth and raid like hell, or is there something "great" about their lategame that im missing?

AuthorReplies:
rel4xed
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 06:13 PM EDT (US)     1 / 25       
military wise aztecs just dont cut it late game... mace's are too weak, so aztecs dont have any good LI. maybe you should upgrade your coyotes as much as possible. I dunno.

In fortress, at any rate, I usually use the 1000 gold shipment to upgrade my coyotes.


Greetings, I'm Synthax.
SirKT 2k+ clan
Anonamis
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 06:18 PM EDT (US)     2 / 25       
yes, make knights.

i always make 7/7 nobles huts as defence and then mass knights.
and the aztec water boom is amazing!
I personally love arrow knights because of their HUGE range and they are quite good when upgraded. what i usually do is mass arrow knights and put them behinf the wall i've built around my civ for defence and for the attack, jaguar warriors, pumpa spearmen (vs cav and buildings) some skull knights and arrowknights at the back.

it's really all the small details that add up to make u win


I'm not as dumb as you look
rel4xed
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 06:23 PM EDT (US)     3 / 25       
arrow knights are only good vs buildings and artillery, and they are quite expensive too (they do two jobs, but you need a lot of them for them to be effective). They are not good when you are fighting an equal army of units. And pumas, jaguars and skullies get raped by those prowlers

Greetings, I'm Synthax.
SirKT 2k+ clan
The Anti Elmo
Skirmisher
(id: Led)
posted 11-11-06 06:30 PM EDT (US)     4 / 25       

Quote:

They are not good when you are fighting an equal army of units. And pumas, jaguars and skullies get raped by those prowlers


If you don't keep coyotes as a support unit constantly you need to step back and slap yourself.

In order to do well as Aztecs your army has to be varied.


"My fort was razed by cougars."
rel4xed
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 06:34 PM EDT (US)     5 / 25       
Depends. If your opponent builds LI and nothing else your only hope is to spam even more coyotes than him with your superior eco. If you dont have a superior eco, push enter and type "gg".

Greetings, I'm Synthax.
SirKT 2k+ clan
The Anti Elmo
Skirmisher
(id: Led)
posted 11-11-06 06:40 PM EDT (US)     6 / 25       
You wouldn't even need to spam more coyotes than him. They rape LI, especially with the cards that most players keep in their deck (temple card, combat card)

"My fort was razed by cougars."
Anonamis
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 06:41 PM EDT (US)     7 / 25       
if ur fighting an army the same size and on defence, make a mixed army and try to organize them (pumas vs cav, arrow knights vs artillery, etc.) and between ur army, ur nobles huts and ur barrax, u'll win, almost garunteed :P

however, i usually dont know what to make for the attack (i'm turtler/fish boomer)

Any ideas? (other then rel4xed telling me they all suck)


I'm not as dumb as you look
The Anti Elmo
Skirmisher
(id: Led)
posted 11-11-06 06:47 PM EDT (US)     8 / 25       
Early game go with 2 mace shipments and spam coyotes. Replace maces as needed. If you think you can finish off the opponent switch some vils to gold and spam pumas to take buildings down.

Mid and late game I go with maces, jags, skulls from shipments, arrow knights and coyotes. Of course this depends. On maps like the pampas I'll ally with Incas, use their road tech and send the temple tech from the HC and poof, 7 speed pumas.


"My fort was razed by cougars."
Anonamis
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 07:04 PM EDT (US)     9 / 25       
yeah that sounds good

but ya, i guess it really depends on the opponent...

what would u say is the best cost effective unit vs. HI and vs. LI?


I'm not as dumb as you look
AOE_loraque
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 07:09 PM EDT (US)     10 / 25       
Aztec seem very strong in Foretress, and through the power of a WP driven gift dance and gold mining, might be able to slip to industrial.

My 1v1 play with Aztec, I have trouble living to Fortress against fast civs, but in team games, I have been doing this to good effect-

After clicking age-up to fortress, get about 60% of your peons on gold for the 1000g+ship cards. Switch your 10WP pit to Gift, and build units to fill. Maybe you even sent the 3 TP travois card, and have a few TPs on XP.

For a few minutes, you can live off your shipments almost alone. The 10 AK card lets you dictate where the fight will be, which seems to make my units last longer. Pen him in, and look at your resources... I have been surprised a few times now, how much gold I end up with mining like crazy. Buy my way to 4.

This is where it gets fun. Add 15 peons to the pit. You want 2000g for the 11 SK+upgrade, and set the pit to make SKs (7.9s/ea). Hit all the big buttons, after you pop cap with SK, and roll over anything in your way. Hit 288/200 last night. Try to send the 11SK card when at 199 pop... they get ridiculous strong in 4, with the upgrade. Lots of fun.

Oh, and don't forget to switch that mega-pit to attack and heal as required. No sense in letting many of them die afterall.

[This message has been edited by AOE_loraque (edited 11-11-2006 @ 07:13 PM).]

ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 07:25 PM EDT (US)     11 / 25       
1, Arrow knights seems to be useless unless you are taking down artilleries and fort, for everything else other units do better. I would recommend to refrain from making too many of them, although it maybe tempting.

2, coyote runner seem to be a very good deal, 2 of them cost about the same as 1 hussar, do 20% more damage and only have 7% less HP, get counted less from heavy infantries. I guess extensive use coyote runner is important.

brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 07:26 PM EDT (US)     12 / 25       
so what im gathering is that unlike other civs their is no good concrete aztec duo.

french-cuirs/cannons(or skirms)
ottos-abus/jans
iro-prowlers/tomas
aztecs-whatever you can scrape together.

The Anti Elmo
Skirmisher
(id: Led)
posted 11-11-06 07:50 PM EDT (US)     13 / 25       
Late game, no.

Quote:

This is where it gets fun. Add 15 peons to the pit. You want 2000g for the 11 SK+upgrade, and set the pit to make SKs (7.9s/ea). Hit all the big buttons, after you pop cap with SK, and roll over anything in your way. Hit 288/200 last night. Try to send the 11SK card when at 199 pop... they get ridiculous strong in 4, with the upgrade. Lots of fun.


I almost never make skulls at the fire pit. Only ship them as a rule. They are a good supplement though.

"My fort was razed by cougars."
parallax8d
Skirmisher
posted 11-11-06 11:16 PM EDT (US)     14 / 25       
Aztec have an AMAZING late game with very strong units. I've won 13 out of 19 treaty games with them (several of those losses were lag/quiting/partner issues). They have a few key secrets that aren't at all obvious unless you spend alot of time playing them to figure out, very substantial advantages late game.
brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 08:37 AM EDT (US)     15 / 25       
...which are...?
poita
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 09:26 AM EDT (US)     16 / 25       
Mass Coyote Runners is key. It is crucial that you get the Coyote combat card and the Temple card that gives them +20% damage. They are very massable and can even tear apart their counters in good numbers.

- - ESO Name: poita - -
- - ELO Rating: 2120 - -
- - Civ: Russia + Dutch - -
My Aztec Unit Guide (Updated!)
brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 11:20 AM EDT (US)     17 / 25       
I always get tons of coyotes and regulary use at least one of the upgrades, but its just never enough and they get shot to pieces before they reach their targets.

not having cannon really hurts the aztecs, they havea great eco but cant mass cannons like the dutch against infantry.

cannons are a rgeat way to turn your eco into military, but aztecs are forced to just make masses of crap units.

Anonamis
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 11:32 AM EDT (US)     18 / 25       
i dont think i've ever played a game as aztecs where i thought "man.. i could really use some cannons about now..."

i really don't think they need them too much. connons are usually good vs infantry and building (depending on cannon) and arrow knights can tske buildings and artillery while all the other (not crapy, very good) units deal with the infantry and anything else that gets in thier way.


I'm not as dumb as you look
ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 11:41 AM EDT (US)     19 / 25       
I like Aztecs early game. If your letting games go long, they arent that great down the stretch. They do have a great boom, if your given time, but i think they shine early when you can send early Coyote men w/ fast age up with mace shipments liek that other guy said.

Arrow knights should be used to come in and harras after major battles, kill soem houses from deep, then leave come back, i like to use them like Opris.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
somme
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 01:26 PM EDT (US)     20 / 25       
Eagle runners are damn strong, 1 pop and fast

ESO : Pcfreak8
"In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
Alpha Fireborn
Skirmisher
(id: lavamancer20)
posted 11-12-06 02:09 PM EDT (US)     21 / 25       
your saying you cant get your coyotes to the enemy? instead of shipping the coyote combat, ship the silent strike. then ship combat later. its much more effective then the hp and speed upgrade because they end up being able to get off more hits when they uncloak right in front of the enemy

Jesus loves me this i know.
for Chuck Norris tells me so!
brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 07:39 PM EDT (US)     22 / 25       
im having trouble without the silent strike card i suppose.
mista_mista
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 09:04 PM EDT (US)     23 / 25       
I don't think silent strike is that great of a card. I would much rather send coyote combat. Why? All the opponent has to do is place a spy or explorer by their army to stop any stealth attacks on arty. As for raiding, they can still just have a few spies out and even if they don't the coyotes move very slowly in stealth.

So IMO coyote combat>silent strike


ESO2: mista_mista
"Baby, you like shopping? Well, I like sieging town centers and raiding villagers..." -DONofCHRON
"Then theres the aztecs. With their 35 guys on the pit they can spit out vills faster than george bush can spit out troops into Iraq." -Cookiecrisp13
Killersquirrel
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 11:09 PM EDT (US)     24 / 25       
You can always just switch the fire pit to the attack dance. 43% damage sure is a lot

Bill: Bob, I see troops advancing.
Bob: Damn, I can't get my grenades to light. Get over here and block the wind.
Bill: Do you hear gunshots?
Bob: I'm running out of matches. Hurry up.
bill: They just shanked john.
bob: He'll be dearly missed. Now help me ligh-
ub3r
Skirmisher
posted 11-12-06 11:12 PM EDT (US)     25 / 25       
Yes but Stealthy Coyote Men cant be ignored. I would send both with stealth first.

It forces your straggler peasants to move, or die. Villies just get raped by coyote men, expecially when you position them between the vills garrison point when stealthed.


"Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

"Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
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