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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Great House
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Topic Subject:Great House
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 12-18-06 11:23 PM EDT (US)         
Now I'm not one to often complain, but this card is just sick:

Age 2
TC Attack + 100%
TC Cost -50%

WTF!!!!!

Compare to colonial militia:

Age1
TC attack + 50%
*minor, irrelevant ability

or even TEAM TTC

TC attack +50%
TC HP +30%

Great house is just SICK. It kills a falconet in 4 shots, and they are replaced for just 300 wood! There is almost nothing you can do to stop a player from going to fortress, setting up 2-3 Great Houses, and tearing you to shreads while he goes to industrial and wastes you with forest prowlers and light canons. Even 10+ falconets with a significant meatshield doesn't help you, as your opponent just ships in his lovely 4 light canon card and owns your whole army.

Is there anything other than maybe church grens that can kill these things? It's not like you can FI for mortars, seeing as the mere possibility of an iroquois rush forces you on the defensive from the onset. Then the further possibility of an Iro FF further puts you on the defense. So wehn you finally know that your opponent isn't actually going to attack you....you die.

Should this card be nerfed? And if so...how?

AuthorReplies:
mentork
Skirmisher
posted 12-18-06 11:56 PM EDT (US)     1 / 24       
*rubs chin and thinks to self*

On a wood heavy map with near by tp... useing the starting builder thing to make a house, then use the starting wood to make a tp, making the first card three vills, ageing useing the 2nt,3rd,and 4th cards for great house, attacking houses, and town dance...... maby not like that exactly but with a little polish...

*hummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm* nothing could harm me but moters and opris

[This message has been edited by mentork (edited 12-19-2006 @ 00:01 AM).]

Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 07:34 AM EDT (US)     2 / 24       
Between prowlers, this insane turtle, and uber late game, I'm beginning to think Iros are at least a bit OP.

It's amazing how a few weeks change the situation, Aztecs go from having the "best rush", to the best boom, Iros go from having a "good rush", to having an awesome FF and turtle, and Sioux, besides cetans (which don't seem to be that *****ed about anymore), aren't all that special.

Oh, did I mention Agrarian ways O_O


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 08:03 AM EDT (US)     3 / 24       
Aztecs ever had best rush?

And overall imo aztec is easily worst native civ


"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Unthinking_Pain
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 08:28 AM EDT (US)     4 / 24       

Quote:

On a wood heavy map with near by tp... useing the starting builder thing to make a house, then use the starting wood to make a tp, making the first card three vills, ageing useing the 2nt,3rd,and 4th cards for great house, attacking houses, and town dance...... maby not like that exactly but with a little polish...


I wouldn't bother with attacking houses. Even with 25 villagers on the Town Hall dance, the houses do a whopping 16-17 damage/shot with a short range.

If you really want to turtle, I'd consider the following cards -

Great House
Extensive Fortifications I & II (ya, Iroquois get 2 +6 Warhut build limit +25% hit cards)
Improved Buildings


Pioneers is always good, and I'd even consider a herdable food econ... but I'm wierd...

DuoDiablo
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 08:36 AM EDT (US)     5 / 24       
My main strategy is the Iro Turtle. I know first hand how nice it is to have your buildings take out an entire army. I use extensive fortification I & II, heavy fortification (saves resources), and some other cards.

I always debated the Great House card, however with 19 war huts around my town, I haven't had someone get in deep enough to matter. If they did, then there was nothing left to defend. I'll give it a shot though. It might save my ass one day.


Legit Copy, but on Hamachi
Message me to play
Squints
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 11:36 AM EDT (US)     6 / 24       
Its cards like that, that make me think you can completely decentralize as the Iroquois.

Total map control and have units/building everywhere. 19 possible total war huts plus shooting houses, dirt cheap TC's and the ability to spawn settlers out of embassys (for an Age IV card).

It would be like trying to put out a forest fire with a sponge.

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-19-06 11:55 AM EDT (US)     7 / 24       
If you think that's bad, then you should check FU Noble Huts with Town Dance.

ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 12:21 PM EDT (US)     8 / 24       

Quoted from Just a player:

If you think that's bad, then you should check FU Noble Huts with Town Dance.

It's true.
Took me an hour once to break such an Aztec turtler on Saguenay. With 15k HP walls and some 20k HP Noble Huts it was utterly insane.

But ofcourse Iroquois can do the same AND add Great Houses to the "front line" for an insane firepower boost. Great Houses with the town dance deal almost 300 damage a shot. The most cost effective counter to Falconets next to the Abus Gun.

Talked about it like 3 weeks ago too, but nobody cared enough then. Given enough time, though, people will realise that Portuguese got nothing on Iroquois in terms of turtle/booming ability.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-19-06 12:49 PM EDT (US)     9 / 24       
Iroquois still can't spam Minutemen, though

ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
MockHamill
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 01:53 PM EDT (US)     10 / 24       
The tech should be a great but the problem is that is makes you play defensively. In every single game where I have done a FF with Great house + Defensive dance (another HC card) I have lost.

Having 10 vills in the Town Center and another 10 on the firepit means you have 20 vills not collecting resources.

Problem is Great House is the only way for Iroquois to fight against Falcs in fortress.

Well actually Scouts works too, but soon everyone will have a few spies protecting their falcs.

Everything comes down to this:
If Iroquois FF and the opponent stays in colonial Iroquois are likely to win. But if both FF and the opponents spams Falcs with halb meat shield Iroquois are more or less screwed.

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 01:57 PM EDT (US)     11 / 24       
With 300 damage Great Houses and a crapload of (also damage enhanced) Warhuts, who needs Minutemen.

You can replace WarHuts too in 11 seconds with the Travois dance. You can't replace Minutemen.

You know Walker, you were a really good Portuguese player. I think you can do even better with Iroquois, using the same play style. They're even better because you don't need to wait and set up very vulnerable Factories in Industrial. You can just go for Light Cannons right away. And upgrade them in the very same age.
You also get the awesome Prowlers instead of the "meh" Cassadors and Besteiros.

Musket Riders + upgraded Light Cannons + damage dance is one hell of a combo to break through. Especially with alittle Prowler support.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-19-06 02:00 PM EDT (US)     12 / 24       

Quote:

You know Walker, you were a really good Portuguese player.

were?

Quote:

I think you can do even better with Iroquois, using the same play style.

That's indeed a good thought. It seems I can win and have fun with a different civ! I might give Iros a shot one of these days.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 02:13 PM EDT (US)     13 / 24       
I said "were" because you're playing Aztec now, right? I didn't mean it in the "not good anymore" sense. Just in that you switched to a different primary civ.

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-19-06 02:43 PM EDT (US)     14 / 24       
Nah. I got owned by Cetans once, then I gave up.

I blame Sandy.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 02:50 PM EDT (US)     15 / 24       
Yea I'm sure your still a good port player, he just meant it in that you don't play ports anymore Don't blame you.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 05:27 PM EDT (US)     16 / 24       
We all blame sandy Walker.

*WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
Contact your network admin for more details
about this special edition of player...

Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
MNBob
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 05:37 PM EDT (US)     17 / 24       
Yes, down with Sandy Walker.

Wait, WhoTF is Sandy Walker?


Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
MNBob's AOE Page
brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 05:46 PM EDT (US)     18 / 24       
Yes, great house + town dance + travois is insane I had to go through that once, with aztecs *shuddders* arrow knights *shudders*

I had a thread about it but im not Sephiroth so no one cared.

xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 12-19-06 07:15 PM EDT (US)     19 / 24       
Aztecs are the only ones who can kill them in fortress age, unless you manage to get a TON of falcs. Arrow knights outrange the TC's.
brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 07:31 PM EDT (US)     20 / 24       
Yes but arrow knights jsut seem so, so, so useless.

iro have no cannons and every unit in the game beats arrow knights.

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-19-06 08:10 PM EDT (US)     21 / 24       

Quote:

Yes, down with Sandy Walker

What a simple comma can do...

Quote:

Aztecs are the only ones who can kill them in fortress age, unless you manage to get a TON of falcs. Arrow knights outrange the TC's.

Although this is rare, there is a thing I haven't think of! Anyway, Europeans can always use Culverins... or 16 Petards.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 12-19-06 09:19 PM EDT (US)     22 / 24       
I'm pretty sure you're joking, seeing as culvs take waaaay too long to kill buildings, and 16 petards costs as much as 5 TC's.


You were joking right?

brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 12-19-06 09:41 PM EDT (US)     23 / 24       
He was joking.

He's named after Chuck Norris.

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 12-19-06 09:42 PM EDT (US)     24 / 24       
Since Iroquois boosted TCs seem to be as strong as 5 European ones, the 16 Petards might be worth it...

Quote:

He's named after Chuck Norris.

Actually, the name came from Johnnie Walker.

Not that this matters, since it was a friend of mine who "stole" (or took a photo with a cell phone) my CD-Key and created my own account before myself. Its a good name, though.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.

[This message has been edited by Just a player (edited 12-19-2006 @ 09:45 PM).]

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