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Topic Subject: Iro Support Cards Bugged?
posted 01-01-07 01:34 PM EDT (US)   
I heard from a a friend that some of the Iro support cards retain pop when units are dead. Can anyone confirm?

ESO : Pcfreak8
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Replies:
posted 01-01-07 01:38 PM EDT (US)     1 / 16  
I regret to say that I can not confirm that, but honestly I think the Iroquois will be okay.

ESO: JarlNick

Want to talk OP? AOE3 Abus Guns at release were nightmares. But I knew how to take care of them! Beware my Culverins you artillery bastards! Oh wait...- MNBob

posted 01-01-07 01:52 PM EDT (US)     2 / 16  
Well as there is a bug in a few German cards, there is a possibility that that could happen, but someone would have to go through the code to find out for definite.

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posted 01-01-07 02:11 PM EDT (US)     3 / 16  
I frequently play Iro and haven't noticed any bug. If it does exist then it isnt of any bother to me.

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Message me to play
posted 01-01-07 02:38 PM EDT (US)     4 / 16  
Why use support cards when you have prowlers :O

On a more serious note, why not just try it out ...


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 01-01-07 03:39 PM EDT (US)     5 / 16  

Quote:

Why use support cards when you have prowlers

Because its similar to the atec big buttons in that you dont need pop space.


I'm actually from N.Ireland
posted 01-02-07 04:33 AM EDT (US)     6 / 16  
I'm happy you mentionned it, as I have the same impression - something is def wrong, but I didn't find it yet

also, the seneca support can be shipped even when you are at (or above) pop limit, which you can't do with the other support-cards


Old Indian: Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."
posted 01-02-07 10:38 AM EDT (US)     7 / 16  

Quoted from MNbob's chart:


Seneca Support
Age 3Level 0

The Seneca send 10 Forest Prowlers and 2 Travois.

ships 2 xpBuilder

ships 10 xpMusketWarrior

Quoted from MNbob's chart:


The German Fort card-a classic example for uhlan bug

HCUnlockFortGerman
(Fort)


Age 3Level 0

Ships a Fort Wagon to the New World, allowing you to construct a mighty Fort, +3 Uhlans.

ships 1 FortWagon

ships 3 Uhlans

Quote:

Well as there is a bug in a few German cards, there is a possibility that that could happen, but someone would have to go through the code to find out for definite.

Quote:

also, the seneca support can be shipped even when you are at (or above) pop limit, which you can't do with the other support-cards

The similarities between seneca support and the german uhlan bug cards(2factories, forts, all 700 crates) are that they ship non-pop consuming stuff first, then add the pop-consuming Uhlan/Musketwarrior(i.e forest prowler).

I believe that the pop-check system in the game only check the first part of the shipment, so these shipment chould be send even if you are housed. But the pop-count system work differently for these pop consuming Uhlan/Musketwarrior's death because they are send-in in the second order. so they take pop instantly after the shipment is sent, however the pop won't change after they were killed.(for example, when you ship the 9x-bow +2 Uhlan card, your pop goes up by 9 when it is clicked, however, when the shipment arrives your pop goes up by another 4. If you send the 700 coin card, your pop will go up by 4 and nothing you do will change it, not even deleting those uhlans).

Kastor had suggested that we/ES( “the lazy dude”) could go through the code and switch around the shipment order, which means that every non-military german shipment cost 4-6-8(depend on the age) pop, but the pop would retain after the uhlan dies(basically making every non-military german shipment a uhlan shipment with some additional boost).

The same thing can be done with the support cards, I will try to go through the codes to find more about that.

Credit to the wonderful chart constructed by Mnbob.

Quoted from the whole list of iro support cards:

HCXPIroquoisMohawkSupport
(Mohawk Support)


Age 3Level 10

The Mohawk send 6 Rams and 5 Mantlets.

ships 5 xpMantlet

ships 6 xpRam
HCXPIroquoisOnondagaSupport
(Onondaga Support)


Age 3Level 0

The Onondaga send 500 Wood and 14 Tomahawks.

ships 14 xpTomahawk

ships 5 CrateofWood
HCXPIroquoisOneidaSupport
(Oneida Support)


Age 3Level 10

The Oneida send a Town Center Travois and 10 Villagers.

ships 1 CoveredWagon

ships 10 SettlerNative
HCXPIroquoisTuscaroraSupport
(Tuscarora Support)


Age 3Level 10

The Tuscarora send 9 Kanya Horsemen and 2 Medicine Men.

ships 9 xpHorseman

ships 2 xpMedicineMan
HCXPIroquoisSenecaSupport
(Seneca Support)


Age 3Level 0

The Seneca send 10 Forest Prowlers and 2 Travois.

ships 2 xpBuilder

ships 10 xpMusketWarrior
HCXPIroquoisCayugaSupport
(Cayuga Support)


Age 3Level 0

The Cayuga send 2 War Canoes and 14 Aenna.

ships 2 xpWarCanoe

ships 14 xpAenna

The support card from Tuscarora, Onondaga and Mohawk ships pop-consuming units first( 9horseman/14 Tomahawk/5matlet), so they don't have the pop-bug.

However the other three ships non pop consuming units/crates(2travios/1town center travois/2canones), which would make them eligable for shiping even if you are housed, but the additonal unit that come with them might result a similar pop-bug like the uhlans(10 Prowler/10 vils/14 Aenna).


Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 01-02-2007 @ 10:47 AM).]

posted 01-02-07 10:42 AM EDT (US)     8 / 16  
Uhlan Bug and this bug is basically the same but the German cards are more "common" that's why it's called "Uhlan Bug". In fact it's the same error that causes these problems.
posted 01-02-07 10:52 AM EDT (US)     9 / 16  

Quoted from the list of azetc support card(i,e temple cards):

HCXPTempleCenteotl
(Temple of Centeotl Support)


Age 3Level 10

The priests of Centeotl send 18 Macehualtins and boost all Macehualtin hitpoints.

ships 18 xpMacehualtin

xpMacehualtin Hitpoints +25%
HCXPTempleCoatlicue
(Temple of Coatlicue Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPTempleCenteotl

The priests of Coatlicue send 10 Arrow Knights and boost all Arrow Knight attacks.

ships 10 xpArrowKnight

xpArrowKnight Damage +20%
HCXPGreatTempleHuitzilopochtli
(Great Temple of Huitzilopochtli Support)


Age 4Level 25Prerequisite tech = HCXPTempleCoatlicue

The High Priest of Huitzilopochtli sends 11 Skull Knights and boosts the splash effect of all Skull Knights.

ships 11 xpSkullKnight

xpSkullKnight MeleeHandAttack DamageArea +1

xpSkullKnight CoverHandAttack DamageArea +1

xpSkullKnight DefendHandAttack DamageArea +1


(Temple of Xipe Totec Support)


Age 3Level 10

The priests of Xipe Totec send 11 Coyote Runners and boost all Coyote Runner attacks.

ships 11 xpCoyoteMan

xpCoyoteMan Damage +20%
HCXPTempleXolotl
(Temple of Xolotl Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPTempleXipeTotec

The priests of Xolotl send 10 Villagers and boost the gather rate for Farms and Plantations by 10%.

ships 10 SettlerNative

Gather Farm +10%

Gather Plantation +10%

Gather Mill +10%
HCXPGreatTempleQuetzalcoatl
(Great Temple of Quetzalcoatl Support)


Age 4Level 25Prerequisite tech = HCXPTempleXolotl

The High Priest of Quetzalcoatl sends 18 Jaguar Prowl Knights and boosts the attack of all Jaguar Prowl Knights.

ships 18 xpJaguarKnight

xpJaguarKnight Damage +25%
HCXPTempleXochipilli
(Temple of Xochipilli Support)


Age 3Level 10

The priests of Xochipilli send 12 Puma Spearmen and increases Puma Spearman speed.

ships 12 xpPumaMan

xpPumaMan speed 20%
HCXPTempleTlaloc
(Temple of Tlaloc Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPTempleXochipilli

The priests of Tlaloc send 8 Eagle Runner Knights and boost all Eagle Runner Knights' range.

ships 8 xpEagleKnight

xpEagleKnight VolleyRangedAttack range +4

xpEagleKnight LOS +4

xpEagleKnight DefendRangedAttack range +4

xpEagleKnight StaggerRangedAttack range +4
HCXPGreatTempleTezcatlipoca
(Great Temple of Tezcatlipoca Support)


Age 4Level 25Prerequisite tech = HCXPTempleTlaloc

The High Priest of Tezcatlipoca sends a group of Pet Jaguars and enhances Pet Jaguars greatly in combat.

ships 12 PetJaguar

PetJaguar Hitpoints +35%

PetJaguar Damage +35%

The Azetc support/temple card won't have the "uhlan bug" because they ship unit first, then add upgrades.

Quoted from The complete list of sioux support cards:

HCXPSiouxSansArcSupport
(Sans Arc Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPSiouxLakotaSupport

The Sans Arc council sends 16 War Clubs and 500 Wood.

ships 16 xpWarClub

ships 5 CrateofWood
HCXPSiouxHunkpapaSupport
(Hunkpapa Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPSiouxSansArcSupport

The Hunkpapa council sends 16 Wakina Rifles and 2 War Hut Travois.

ships 16 xpWarRifle

ships 2 WarHutTravois
HCXPSiouxLakotaSupport
(Lakota Support)


Age 3Level 0

The Lakota Nation sends 7 Axe Riders and 9 buffalo.

ships 7 xpAxeRider

ships 9 Bison
HCXPSiouxBurntThighSupport
(Burnt Thigh Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPSiouxLakotaSupport

The Burnt Thigh council sends 7 Rifle Riders and 2 Medicine Men.

ships 7 xpRifleRider

ships 2 xpMedicineMan
HCXPSiouxOglalaSupport
(Oglala Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPSiouxBurntThighSupport

The Oglala council sends 14 Cetan Bows and 500 Food.

ships 14 xpWarBow

ships 5 CrateofFood
HCXPSiouxDakotaSupport
(Dakota Support)


Age 3Level 0

The Dakota Nation sends 5 Tashunke Prowlers and increases the hitpoints of all Tashunke Prowlers.

ships 5 xpCoupRider

xpCoupRider Hitpoints +25%
HCXPSiouxSanteeSupport
(Santee Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPSiouxDakotaSupport

The Santee council sends 6 Axe Riders and increases the hitpoints of all Axe Riders.

ships 6 xpAxeRider

xpAxeRider Hitpoints +20%
HCXPSiouxYanktonSupport
(Yankton Support)


Age 3Level 10Prerequisite tech = HCXPSiouxSanteeSupport

The Yankton council sends 6 Rifle Riders and increases the attack of all Rifle Riders.

ships 6 xpRifleRider

xpRifleRider Damage +20%
HCXPSiouxTwoKettleSupport
(Two Kettle Support)


Age 3Level 25Prerequisite tech = HCXPSiouxYanktonSupport

The Two Kettle council sends 14 Wakina Rifles and increases the hitpoints of all Wakina Rifles.

ships 14 xpWarRifle

xpWarRifle Hitpoints +20%

Sioux cards works the same way as the Azetcs, no-problem at all. The "uhlan(pop) bug" only effect certain german(2factories/700 crates/forts)/iro cards.



Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 01-02-2007 @ 11:00 AM).]

posted 01-13-07 08:08 AM EDT (US)     10 / 16  
some, if not all, support cards add 2x the pop, once when you start shipping it, once upon arrival

and people still call Iro OP! lol


Old Indian: Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."
posted 01-13-07 05:37 PM EDT (US)     11 / 16  

Quote:

The Azetc support/temple card won't have the "uhlan bug" because they ship unit first, then add upgrades.

Upgrades have nothing to do with this. It only occurs when first no-pop units are shipped with pop-units after.

Quote:

some, if not all, support cards add 2x the pop, once when you start shipping it, once upon arrival

Actually they take up the standard pop cost when you klick on them. When you cancel it, that pop will still be taken. When you send them again, they take up that pop again. And once they arrive, they take the population AGAIN, but this pop will be gone when the Uhlans (or whatever) are gone.

Quote:

only effect certain german(2factories/700 crates/forts)/iro cards.

Actually it affects:
-7/15 sheep
-7 cows
-600/700 food/wood/gold
-1 Covered wagon (not Team)
-2 Outpost wagons
-Fort Wagon
-Castrametation
-Factory
-Robber Barons
-1,2 Caravels
-1 Frigate
-1 Monitor (not TEAM)

The only cards that are working right are the 1000 resource cards.

And of course these Iroquois cards are bugged:
-Seneca Support
-Oneida Support
-Cayuga Support

[This message has been edited by Mediolanus (edited 01-14-2007 @ 07:18 AM).]

posted 01-13-07 10:06 PM EDT (US)     12 / 16  
So i come back to start playing again and find out that there's been a bug all along that makes germany now completely unplayable. (Unless you're willing to play a civ that sucks in early game AND has less population space than everyone else in late game or alternatively can't use factories and resource cards.)

And that for some reason, it has not been fixed and will not be fixed right now either.

Oh and it also makes some of Iros best unique cards useless, and apparently i've been playing all my germany games with at most 184 pop and my iro games with 180 ever since i bought TWC.
I did notice i seemed to have less military than my opponents.

And i didn't even like the changes TWC had made to the game BEFORE this came up.
I'm sure glad i gave you money for it now, ES, keep up the good work.
It was certainly an unexpected move to take the worst civ in the game and turn one of the tiny strengths it still had left into a major weakness.

[This message has been edited by drahnier (edited 01-13-2007 @ 10:10 PM).]

posted 01-14-07 06:16 AM EDT (US)     13 / 16  

Quote:

The only cards that are working right are the 1000 resource cards.

And of course the Iroquois cards:
-Seneca Support
-Oneida Support
-Cayuga Support

I'm sure the seneca and oneida support do NOT work correctly, they both take double pop space (see TWC bug list for screenshots)
didnt try the Cayuga card yet as it has no point anymore for me


Old Indian: Once upon a time, a woman was picking up firewood. She came upon a poisonous snake frozen in the snow. She took the snake home and nursed it back to health. One day the snake bit her on the cheek. As she lay dying, she asked the snake, "Why have you done this to me?" And the snake answered, "Look, bitch, you knew I was a snake."
posted 01-14-07 07:18 AM EDT (US)     14 / 16  
I ment those cards weren't working, forgive me for not stating it correctly. I will edit it rightaway.
posted 01-14-07 10:17 AM EDT (US)     15 / 16  
Germany without free uhlans would be better than its ATM...

Now finally people won't flame me for whining about Germany's UPness. Hooray!

posted 01-14-07 12:44 PM EDT (US)     16 / 16  
OMG Germany isnt UP you noob!

Btw, is Voltiguer instead of Voltigeur a typo or is Voltigür actually a German word?

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