You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.30 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Iamgrunt using Portugal?
Bottom
Topic Subject:Iamgrunt using Portugal?
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
MockHamill
Skirmisher
posted 01-23-07 04:30 AM EDT (US)         
I do not get it. He is using Portugal in most of his latest games and winning against 2200+ players!

Does this means that Portugal is actually balanced on expert level? Because I love playing Portugal but after getting a 25% winning percentage with them I simply gave up.

To me, Iroquois feels like the civ Portugal should have been.

[This message has been edited by MockHamill (edited 01-23-2007 @ 04:31 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
MNBob
Skirmisher
posted 01-23-07 07:26 AM EDT (US)     1 / 30       
Iamgrunt proves that Portugal is a top civ since he was unable to win with other civs. Oh wait, nm.

IOW, in this case it has nothing to do with the civ and everything to do with the player.


Abus Guns and Grenadiers ARE NOT ARTILLERY!
MNBob's AOE Page

[This message has been edited by MNBob (edited 01-23-2007 @ 07:27 AM).]

Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 01-23-07 09:15 AM EDT (US)     2 / 30       
Lets tell a little story...
I am playing Spanish... ppl always yell at me for them being op. They also say Dutch are UP. Very little changes with Dutch, and I switch to them... Ppl now yell at me for Dutch being OP...

Moral of the story... People just like to complain. Are ports the best civ? Probably not but they arnt as bad as people say either.

Anyhow my next addition of my newsletter has a big rant on this as well. :P


Mokon | | | AoE3 Rate 2200~ | | |
  • To check out my Age of Empires III Strategy Guide click here!
  • The price of my guide has been reduced! Check it out!
  • New TWC Recorded Games Posted on my Media Page!
  • Sundalo50
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 10:13 AM EDT (US)     3 / 30       

    Quoted from Mokon :

    I am playing Spanish... ppl always yell at me for them being op. They also say Dutch are UP. Very little changes with Dutch, and I switch to them... Ppl now yell at me for Dutch being OP...

    Maybe you just like to play OP civs..... OooOOoOOoo.....

    Dutch have been a top civ since day 1 in TWC. They were never UP. Remember they started with better than vanilla banks, and fast halbs...not to mention agents.

    With Spains nerf, it only comes natural for Dutch to be the new OP laming civ.

    If you take a look at grunts stats, out of the civs he has played more then 10 games with he has the lowest win% with Portugal.

    Too bad Skwizz took down their ladder. I miss those graphs. Would be easy to see what Grunts performance was like under portugal.

    resignexpert
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 10:24 AM EDT (US)     4 / 30       
    Keep in mind that because Portugal is an extremely underplayed civ, many players don't know how to counter it as well as other civs, especially when facing players of grunt's caliber.
    somme
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 11:55 AM EDT (US)     5 / 30       
    Well Mokon you did start with France and then play Spain Germany/Portugal Spain in that order...

    ESO : Pcfreak8
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
    A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
    Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
    scriv1984
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 12:18 PM EDT (US)     6 / 30       
    Mokon, i signed up for your newsletter recently, but is there anywhere i can see the old ones?
    ub3r
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 12:35 PM EDT (US)     7 / 30       
    Just because iamgrunt is winning with Portugal means nothing.

    Remember this is iamgrunt were talking about, the best little Korean rts gamer there is. The guy held a rock solid spot at number 1 in vanilla, and still remains as one of the best in TWC. He simply can have success with ANY civ.

    He would prolly still beat 2200+ with Germany, right now.


    "Were surrounded.........this simplifies things." - Chesty Puller USMC 1950

    "Let your plans be dark and as impenatrable as night, and when you move, fall like a lightning-bolt." - Sun Tzu
    Brtnboarder495
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 03:03 PM EDT (US)     8 / 30       
    I wouldn't go that far, even though Germany is weak, it's the Uhlan bug that makes them rarely played. I am not going to play a civ that is already quite possibly the weakest, and then have my card choices limited.

    Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
    F1RE_FLY
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 03:33 PM EDT (US)     9 / 30       
    Mokon, are you saying that since it was a very little change (in your opinion) that it is not possible for dutch to be OP now?

    And as I recall Dutch were balanced in vanilla. They countered spain and did reasonable against an otto rush (without silk road). Russia overwhelmed their units with a strelet spam but now russian is very slow...

    British longbow spam beat dutch but now that those are nerfed dutch has a slightly better chance against them.

    But ES decided to toss in an uncounterable unit and buff their eco. Thanks.

    Portugal is good. You can't really rush 2 CM TCs with a barracks inbetween and behind them. Their water boom is good, but they are vulnerable to a FF. Their FF is still pretty good, but organ guns aren't.

    I think people say portugal is UP because portugese lose the worst to dutch and spain and iroquois. Ports have a chance against the other civs I think.


    ~иииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии~
    ESO: F1R╔_FLП
    ~иииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии~
    XploSionS
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 03:50 PM EDT (US)     10 / 30       
    i personally don't think ports are that bad.

    I also think that many people use ports incorrectly, instead of defending like your life depends on it why not be agressive with them?. Few opponents expect it and it would be extreemly effective against civs with weak or no LI in colonial for instance french, spain, germany and aztecs due to the fact that muskets are (1) not expected and (2) pretty decent units, they hit hard, have medicore HP and are quite cheap and easily spammable

    all im thinking is instead of being defensive why not be agressive for once to give yourself enough time to get to fortress without your villagers being holed up in your town center half the time?


    eso name: _XploSionS__

    ===quit due to the many many whinge and whine topics===
    somme
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 04:10 PM EDT (US)     11 / 30       
    There is no way Ports can be that bad... It takes 20 seconds longer to get to fort, they have lower hp tcs and ranged cav got nerfed. Portugese should still be pretty damn good.

    ESO : Pcfreak8
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
    A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
    Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
    Voltiguer
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 04:17 PM EDT (US)     12 / 30       
    Mr Smarty could you please tell me how to be agressive as Ports?! (especially in age2)

    In a normal Colonial fight, you age to age2 with fewer villagers than your opponent, you do not get 400W age up politican, you have NO villager shipments and need most of your food for vills (2 TCs).

    Therefore you can hardly spam a big army unless you stop making vills (-> crap economy, no vill shipments) which you cannot without losing early on.

    If you water boom you have to be especially defensive because you now also need wood for the boats.

    And on top of that, even if you had the resources, what units would you spam?

    Xbows which are an average unit at best? Hussars with their awfully high food cost? Musks which get raped by any Native LI? Pikes?!?

    I am not saying their units are BAD but they aren't great enough that you could be agressive with them unless your micro is way better than your opponents OR you have the ability to spam tons of them (which you don't, see above).

    Playing defensive as Ports is the ONLY way to win. And THATS why so few people play them. Because they are boring. Plain and simple.

    FFing as Ports is still somewhat viable but their units in age3 aren't that great. They aren't bad, I know, but how can you beat your opponent with a group of some age up cassas, some shipped one, maybe a few shipped goons? You have no artillery worth mentioning (besides culvs which suck at sieging) and your economy is crap unless you invest heavily into water boom+3 TC boom. However, if you do that you are vulnurable to attacks and cannot spam cassas/goons or whatever.

    The Crazy Idiot
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 04:53 PM EDT (US)     13 / 30       
    Ports get 400w.
    OttovonBismarck
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 05:54 PM EDT (US)     14 / 30       
    yea, at lvl 40 though
    Sundalo50
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 06:05 PM EDT (US)     15 / 30       
    ports aggresive..... vs. the top civs against a competent opponent it is not advisable.

    TOP civs Iroq, spain, dutch, otto

    Iroq can either Fast fortress or rush.

    If he rushes, he will beat down anything you got, for one he will have a forward travois, he will go after your 2nd TC and unless you place it right away he will kill it. Which means he will have map control. He will ship kanya and have twice as many hawks and aennas as you have crossbow. Even if you ship 8 crossbow, 6 muskets and have constant production of crossbows you will be outgunned. And lets not forget his explorer that will one shot a crap load of your troops...

    Ok so he Fast fortresses... He has a forward travois. You knock it down. you move close... another travois... hmmm You knock it down. He hits fortress BANG forest prowler spam up your you know what oh and an explorer that is upgraded and can now really work over your troops with his lameshot.

    Dutch... Skirms, hit and run, hit and run, hit and run, hit and run,hit and run, hit and run, hit and run, hit and run,hit and run, hit and run, hit and run, hit and run,hit and run, hit and run, hit and run, hit and run. If your enemy stays and fights then your probably just fighting a nub.

    Spain... similar concept, but you have more of a chance if you go heavy musket. But still he has better shipments and units. Just that fact will mean your loss unless he decides to FF with no troops. Which means your fighting a nub...probably.

    Otto... erm do I have to? They age up way before you, and you don't have a good counter to jans or abus in colonial.


    It can be done, but against someone that doesn't use a strict build order and uses his units and shipments to his advantage, portugal will lose.

    I recently cross/pike rushed a dutch player. I beat him thourouly, but the guy stayed and fought with his skirms, and thats why he lost. Had he hit and run it would have easily gone the other way.

    Destiny_Devil
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 06:24 PM EDT (US)     16 / 30       

    Quote:

    Playing defensive as Ports is the ONLY way to win. And THATS why so few people play them. Because they are boring. Plain and simple.

    Well this gave me a good laugh, well then voltiguer if ports are boring tell me what civs are interesing to play, spain, iro with there same old routine over, playing as ottos were you split the maps into groups and have a seperate routine for each of them, or dutch with their ever so entertaining halb spam. I could do this for every civ besides ports tbh, but hopefully you'll get my message just off those and I wont need to.

    tEk Jason
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 06:43 PM EDT (US)     17 / 30       
    Most players (me being one) can't usually handle the pressure of fighting in their own base, its stressful and a slight mistake can lead to more than a few dead settlers. Port isn't necessarily a bad civ, its just that players like grunt, Asgard, and JohnandMary have the skill to to advance their eco while fighting in their own bases while most people play aggressive civs so their eco can go more or less untouched while they fight in the middle of the map or in their opponents town.

    ESO: [tEk] Jason_
    2150+ AOE3
    1800 TWC

    [This message has been edited by tEk Jason (edited 01-23-2007 @ 06:44 PM).]

    KingsRansom
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 07:54 PM EDT (US)     18 / 30       
    Quick the shepard went that way!! ---->; Everyone, quick, follow!

    "Obstacles do not exist to be surrendered to, but only to be broken." - Adolf Hitler

    Proud citizen of Sovietcanuckistan.

    ~92% of teens have moved on to rap. If you are part of the 8% who still listen to real music, copy and paste this into your sig.~

    [This message has been edited by KingsRansom (edited 01-23-2007 @ 07:56 PM).]

    KingSteve3721
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 07:58 PM EDT (US)     19 / 30       
    either:

    -iamgrunt op
    or
    -portugal isnt as unbalanced as we think

    I'm guessing the former

    Quote:

    I am playing Spanish... ppl always yell at me for them being op. They also say Dutch are UP. Very little changes with Dutch, and I switch to them... Ppl now yell at me for Dutch being OP...

    Moral of the story...

    ....dont play OP civs


    [FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
    “I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
    "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
    "The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
    "Dogs, would you live forever?"- Frederick the Great (addressing retreating Prussians at the Battle of Kolin)

    [This message has been edited by KingSteve3721 (edited 01-23-2007 @ 08:02 PM).]

    As_Saffah
    Scenario Reviewer
    posted 01-23-07 09:34 PM EDT (US)     20 / 30       
    As soon as iamgrunt posts a strat thread for Ports, or someone posts a rec game or two, the question will be a lot closer to being answered.

    Frankly I think the kid just got bored rolling over everyone with OP civs and decided to rub it in a little by doing the same with a crack Port strat.

    xentelian
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 00:15 AM EDT (US)     21 / 30       
    Community stats for Port do not look great, but I have actually been doing well with that civ myself. If it wasn't for the fact that organ guns vs abus or other artillery drop faster than Joan Collins on a pool boy... I would play that civ more often.
    MockHamill
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 04:46 AM EDT (US)     22 / 30       
    Well it just seems that everything Portugal can do, Iroquois can do better.
    1) Stronger boom: 3TCs + firepit is better then just 3TCs.
    2) Better defense: Great house > Colonial militia.
    3) FP > Cacadore.

    To me it is pure pleasure to use Iroquois. Finally a civ where you can play defense and still win versus more aggressive opponents. I tried the same thing in both vanilla and the expac with Portugal but it simply did not work.

    TOO_Saruman
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 06:53 AM EDT (US)     23 / 30       
    Obviously 3 TC and firepit is better than 3 TC..but you need 1300 wood for that...and at least 6 settlers..wheras port get 3 TC for free lmao.

    I can just as easily say port boat boom > iro 3 TC and firepit boom.

    I agree great house does > CM but port gets TWO TC...iro gets one..so in actuality the port defense is better.

    FP are a better unit than cassador overall, but cassador is better against ranged units, much better in fact.


    ESO: empirejoao3
    Clan:Proud
    "You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
    Sundalo50
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 07:52 AM EDT (US)     24 / 30       
    3 TCs cost what?


    AGE 2 CARD GREAT HOUSE


    Town Centers are cheaper and inflict more damage when garrisoned.

    TownCenter Damage +100%

    TownCenter Wood -50% (BasePercent) <--------

    TCs cost 300 wood with great house.... come again.

    [This message has been edited by Sundalo50 (edited 01-24-2007 @ 07:53 AM).]

    Lord_Richjp
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 12:07 PM EDT (US)     25 / 30       
    Iro can do better than most civs at most things tbh.

    My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

    By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
    « Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
    You must be logged in to post messages.
    Please login or register

    Hop to:    

    Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames