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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » What makes an expert?
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Topic Subject:What makes an expert?
Alexander the
Skirmisher
posted 01-24-07 04:06 PM EDT (US)         
I was thinking. What makes a good expert? What seperates mediocore from expert? I haevnt quite found an answer yet, but still thinking. SO....What do you think makes an expert. Sure isn't how many villagers u make.

"History teaches us man learns nothing from history"
AuthorReplies:
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 01-24-07 04:15 PM EDT (US)     1 / 25       
micro, macro, countering, strategy

"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

tEk Jason
Skirmisher
posted 01-24-07 05:51 PM EDT (US)     2 / 25       
In my opinion an expert is someone who could play any civ and think of an original, interesting strategy on the fly that works. I consider Swinger and Gl0rious more "expert" than nightscream for example.

ESO: [tEk] Jason_
2150+ AOE3
1800 TWC
Realn
Skirmisher
posted 01-24-07 05:57 PM EDT (US)     3 / 25       
Most of it is strategy and then following through.

If you have a good strategy and can prevent being raided / countered, then you're most likely an expert.

That's just my opinion, though.


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Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 01-24-07 06:13 PM EDT (US)     4 / 25       
The Mind

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  • Angel Walker
    Skirmisher
    (id: Just a player)
    posted 01-24-07 07:20 PM EDT (US)     5 / 25       
    Any answer about "What makes [insert highly variable rank here]" will be based on opinion, so you will never get a satisfactory answer, because there isn't a fixed line that separates both groups.

    But if you want to know an Expert just basing on his rank... well, its still variable, because it depends of your own rank. I'm sure some would say everyone in the Top 200 are Experts, while one which is in the Top 200 would say only the Top 20...

    I like to face it that way:

    A Few People > Walker > A Lot of People

    To know what skills some Top players have that differentiate them from others, check some record games. Best way known by humanity.


    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    urafricanbrother
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 07:53 PM EDT (US)     6 / 25       
    I agree it is kind of a fine line. IMO there are three types of "experts." You have the people who have a great understanding of the nature of the game, and are very innovative strategy whise, but don't have the extreme speed/micro necessary to compete on the highest level. An example of someone like this is beatnickjoe who has made up many innovative strategies, but just isnt at the top top of the ladders. (No offense at all intended joe, you are way smarter about this game than I will ever be and you still have a better rating) Another type of expert is the guy who has little to no innovation, but has excellent speed, and micro, and is able to very effectively carry out others strategys- the archetypeal (sp?) spanish lamer. The third, and most ideal expert, is the guy who understands fully the game dynamics, and has the talent/skill to act on this understanding. People such as our very own Ender and Sephiroth who are constantly churning out new strategies AND who are near the top of the ladders.

    [This message has been edited by urafricanbrother (edited 01-24-2007 @ 11:05 PM).]

    xSephirothx
    Skirmisher
    (id: xMatt the Greatx)
    posted 01-24-07 10:01 PM EDT (US)     7 / 25       
    I agree with myafricanbrother

    Hey walker, dont you mean Seph > all > Walker?

    But yeah, some people just memorize the most OP strat and use it all the time. I think it's more fun just to play on the fly, or at least have more than one strat.

    My micro kinda sucks btw. Well, in small numbers I own, but since I don't use control groups I suck in major engagements. Good thing I play ottos

    Captain_N
    Banned
    posted 01-24-07 11:14 PM EDT (US)     8 / 25       
    if Seph > all > Walker is true... well... doh dude-- "all" includes both seph and walker
    SUX2000
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 11:20 PM EDT (US)     9 / 25       
    An expert is some1 who consistently wins a higher percentage of games they play than nearly all others and has a deep knowledge of the game.

    _____________________________\||/
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    ______________\_____________(..__..)
    ______________[[_Crayola_]]>_. \___/
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    _____'-_______/____._.___._._.___/\
    its_a_titan
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-24-07 11:37 PM EDT (US)     10 / 25       
    Sombody who knows all variables and uses them all to his/her advantage, consistently

    "Sanity is madness put to good uses.": George Santayana
    lanceleglos
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 06:08 AM EDT (US)     11 / 25       

    knowledge of strats
    knowledge of maps
    knowledge of units and counters
    knowledge of game dynamic i.e gaining xp
    knowledge of stages of the game/understanding and creating mini objectives/ i.e gain a tp/take water/destroy certain unit or building (inters can do this but not more then one at the same time experts can raid, boom and fight at sea for example

    creativity in strats
    creativity in taking advantage of maps
    creativity in use of units and combos

    --------------------------------------------------
    Implementation of the above: Decison making, resource allocation, timing of aging, timing of attack, balancing resources, predicting opponant

    This is the most important 'balance issue' of the game, you need to balance these factots to ctreat optimum situation for a win, do this consisently for high win percentage against high skilled opponants
    --------------------------------------------------
    Multi task Micro micro micro ad infinitum

    The Bob
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 11:28 AM EDT (US)     12 / 25       
    no one aspect makes an "expert"

    Some have good micro and bad macro.
    Some have good macro and bad micro.
    Some have good micro and good macro but are terrible at adapting.

    Some can adapt well but have bad micro and macro and so forth.

    Any "expert" can tell you that they've lost games due to bad macro or won games due to thinking well, while at the same time micro plays a part, etc...

    somme
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 11:57 AM EDT (US)     13 / 25       

    Quote:

    Somme have good micro and good macro
    Somme can adapt well

    Why, thank you.

    ESO : Pcfreak8
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
    A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
    Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
    Angel Walker
    Skirmisher
    (id: Just a player)
    posted 01-25-07 12:00 PM EDT (US)     14 / 25       
    I think you missed the "...but has bad micro and macro and so forth." part

    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    Adam42
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 12:15 PM EDT (US)     15 / 25       
    being a master at macro micro, and having innovative strats are what makes an expert. Not rate.
    somme
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 12:19 PM EDT (US)     16 / 25       

    Quote:

    I think you missed the "...but has bad micro and macro and so forth." part

    That's Just a Detail.

    ESO : Pcfreak8
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
    A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
    Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe

    [This message has been edited by somme (edited 01-25-2007 @ 12:20 PM).]

    Alexander the
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 03:30 PM EDT (US)     17 / 25       
    It appears we have our answer. (~_~)

    "History teaches us man learns nothing from history"
    Lord_Richjp
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 04:13 PM EDT (US)     18 / 25       

    Quoted from walker:

    A Few People > Walker > A Lot of People

    No, it's A Few People > Walker < A Lot of People

    [size=small]Just don't look up my stats xD[/size]


    My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

    By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe

    [This message has been edited by Lord_Richjp (edited 01-26-2007 @ 12:07 PM).]

    Ender_Ward
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 04:35 PM EDT (US)     19 / 25       
    Public perception.

    "One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
    Brtnboarder495
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 06:43 PM EDT (US)     20 / 25       
    Does it really matter who is what? I understand that it's more important and beneficial for an expert to give advice than one who is severly less experienced, but in the grand scheme of things I don't think it's that big of a deal to say who is an expert and who isn't. This is partially why I hate rates, I could lame my way up 100 more points, but I don't want to. At the same time, I may have an off game and lose to a player 100 points less. Does that make me a worse player? No. This is also what leads to a common misconception, that one game determines ones skill and place within a community. I've encountered several players that have really scared me into thinking I'm cooked, and then they make one crucial mistake, losing them the game. To wrap things up, many players often play better or worse than their rating and trying to classify players by using a number is unrealistic.

    Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
    Alexander the
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 07:27 PM EDT (US)     21 / 25       
    Yes...i agress.....ranks arent everything...but my REAL question was what seperates good player from a decent and a noob. I understand what your saying but...

    "History teaches us man learns nothing from history"
    Brtnboarder495
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-25-07 09:52 PM EDT (US)     22 / 25       
    Haha sorry. Well then if you wanted a "fine line" or number, then I'd have to say that currently in terms of TWC, everyone from Lt. Col. status and higher typically has a very good idea of how to play the game. The higher they are rated from that point on comes from quick decisions and micro and macro.

    Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
    crazykid
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 03:13 PM EDT (US)     23 / 25       
    well sephoroth, a lot of people might kiss your butt , but im not going to.
    a lot of people > seph > elguero

    hahaha how you been?

    [This message has been edited by crazykid (edited 01-27-2007 @ 03:14 PM).]

    DeMoNZ
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 05:59 PM EDT (US)     24 / 25       
    'what seperates a good player from a noob.'

    'noobs' (which comes from newbie) usual don't know what they do. For example, they copy a good player's strat (top20 players for example) and do that every game, every time the same units, v different civs on different maps.
    He just doesn't know what he's doing and thinks he'll get good copying an expert's strat.
    A good player, he has a strat, knows what he's doing, but doesn't have very good micro, speed, multitasking and all that shit.
    Then experts I believe, can play most civs at top level, know what they do, and have great speed and macro and all what I said above.

    Also, you can recognize a noob when they accuse you for cheating and start flaming you for it after the game!

    hellofromireland
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-28-07 03:24 PM EDT (US)     25 / 25       
    ^^
    Then in that case that would make me a medium player but my elo is so low I won't even bother linking it.


    I'm actually from N.Ireland
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