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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Explorer cards nerfed in TWC
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Topic Subject:Explorer cards nerfed in TWC
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 07:04 PM EDT (US)         
I kwon many of you are not fans of Explorer cards, but they are in the game, and they use to be OK, so i thought we should talk about it...

Explorer cards used to be significant in AOE3, treasuses were bigger, maps had more treasures overall, sniper shots took longer to cool down. sending this card could easily grant you extra 300+ res and 100 more kill XP compared to your opponent, in almsot every map.

TWC you are lucky if you get 200 more treasures than your european opponent, and that the chance of him able to steal your treasure is much higher, as he is more likely to have a sniper shot. and against native opponent, this card is a complete waste, because you will not be getting any more treasures than him no matter what you do.

what also gets me is that if british explorer can only get the sword attack in age2, why should Iro WC start with a powerful gun attack without a card?


should ES boost euro explorer card by hp/att+ 100% and grants them crack shots?

discuss

AuthorReplies:
Formless
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 07:07 PM EDT (US)     1 / 19       
Explorer - Explorer
Warchief - Military Leader

Europeans - not familiar with the land
Natives - familiar with the land

Makes sense to me. Europeans have things that Natives don't have and Natives have some other things.

StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 01-25-07 07:13 PM EDT (US)     2 / 19       
I agree it has been inderictly nerfed, but no real need for a change.

Quote:

and that the chance of him able to steal your treasure is much higher


How is it any easier than before?

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brandnizzle
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 07:15 PM EDT (US)     3 / 19       
crack shot recharges faster now?

I did not know that, thanks.

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 01-25-07 07:27 PM EDT (US)     4 / 19       
Well, I don't really think the treasures are an issue. The fact is that none of the European Explorer cards are really strong and that 3 Settlers is always a better option. The only civ that would use it a considerable ammount of times was Russia, which didn't have 3 Settler card and had arguably the best Explorer Card in the game. Dutch damn cheap TCs wasn't bad though.

Natives, on the other side, can make much better use of those cards, because their Warchiefs are actually useful in combat. Not to mention the pets doesn't seem that bad... besides 225 Food Jaguars, of course. And, to finish the paragraph, France and Britain having their Explorer Card in Age 2 has always been a bad idea.


ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 07:43 PM EDT (US)     5 / 19       
The only way you're going to make the Explorer/Warchief cards useful and worth a shipment, is if they affect the current stats, instead of the base stats.

Nobody cares about getting +6 ranged damage and +200HP, in the grand scheme of things. Especially not for Warchiefs, who's damage goes up by WAY more than that with age up.

Or, if they offer more unique benefits.

'Cause as it is, they are in every way inferior to 3 villagers, ATP or a trickle card.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 07:53 PM EDT (US)     6 / 19       

Quote:

why should Iro WC start with a powerful gun attack without a card

meh, its not that powerful until fortress, and is nearly useless in discovery.

anyway it does seem to me that the warchiefs turned out a little too powerful, but they were the entire basis of the expansion pack (The War Chiefs). plus the natives civs are fairly balanced except iroquois, which has little to do with their warchief (eagle eye is overrated, hp boost is nice but not a gamewinner over the other warchiefs abilities) so ES shouldnt fix what isnt broken.


"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

[This message has been edited by exc4libulz1022 (edited 01-25-2007 @ 07:54 PM).]

ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 08:47 PM EDT (US)     7 / 19       

Quote:

The fact is that none of the European Explorer cards are really strong and that 3 Settlers is always a better option.

thats the problem, itshould be a reasonable substitute to 3 vils.

Quote:


How is it any easier than before?

because he is more likely to have a sniper shot ready when he comes across you fighting guardians.

Quote:

Makes sense to me. Europeans have things that Natives don't have and Natives have some other things.

this discussion is more about making a card useful. i am fine with the way explorers are at the start of the game.

Quote:

Or, if they offer more unique benefits.

yes, thats where i am getting at, enable crack shot as soon as you send this card.

Earl Samsca
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 09:34 PM EDT (US)     8 / 19       
Well I agree. Getting the Russian explorer card used to be a reasonably good choice on some maps, now I would always consider it inferior to the wood trickle card and can't see any real advantages. Against the natives, why even try?

In many ways this is a flaw in the game. As it stands euro civs have no chance in
A) creeping (whether or not you hate the term, thats essentially what it is)
B) naval fighting
Not explorer centric, but there is still the fact your screwed.

As for whether the Iro cheif is overpowered.. If eagle eye is overrated then +hp is massively underrated. Not a game winner? Well it kind of is when you have one, if not the, best FF attack in the game.

But then I doubt explorers will get buffed in a way to make them viable.

lodder
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 09:42 PM EDT (US)     9 / 19       
I think statholder may be the only reasonable explorer card to send, and that's mostly just for those 200 wood TCs

explorers are rather weak compared to their native counterparts

Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 01-25-07 09:48 PM EDT (US)     10 / 19       
^Agreed. But even now with banks boosted you rarely need another TC as by the time you are able to build another TC in age3 your economy is either already completed (max vils) or you've beat your enemy.

The only other true viable one was the Russian one, as that on Yukon = tons of treasures.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 01-26-07 00:36 AM EDT (US)     11 / 19       
Well I think instead of just getting crappy boosts to explorer for a swack of food from the capitol where I get to a max whopping 36 damage to an Iroq WarChiefs 106, It should upgrade the Explorer into a General or Field Marshal with no aura but equivilent or better stats to that of a WarChief.
IMO It makes sense because over the period of discovering the land, to colonizing, to building forts, adopting the Industrial Revolution and then having a prosperous Imperial Colony, someone MUST have figured out the lay of the land and become accustomed to fighting on that land against the natives.

Having this would actually make it worthwhile to bring him into the fray rather than just make him stand in your base for the rest of the game.


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 00:56 AM EDT (US)     12 / 19       
kivlov, thats a pretty good idea, but i dont think the explorers should ever be as strong as an equally upgraded warchief, even discouting aura boosts. a strong leader-unit is one of the unique benefits of the natives...i dont think they should ruin that. i do like the field marshal idea though, and their stats could get close, just not the same or better. i agree that explorers should have some kind of use as the warchiefs do.

P.S.

Quote:

in age3 your economy is either already completed (max vils) or you've beat your enemy.


dont you mean "your economy is completed AND you've beat your enemy? :P


"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

[This message has been edited by exc4libulz1022 (edited 01-26-2007 @ 00:56 AM).]

Alpedar
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 05:00 AM EDT (US)     13 / 19       
IF Euro Expolorer should reach some other status then explorer (when everything is explored, there is no need for explorers), it should be something like general (aura, bad stats), or some kind of spec ops (high stats, sniper shot working on every nonmechanical unit (including other explorers and warchiefs).

That would mean, WC can boost his army, exp can kill him, but not affect army peformance (much).

TinyPiesRUs
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 05:39 AM EDT (US)     14 / 19       
How is the Russian Explorer card better? On my computer it says what all the other explorer cards do except without a unique bonus
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 01-26-07 08:31 AM EDT (US)     15 / 19       
It increases Explorer's damage against Guardians... I think the multipliers go from 3x up to 5x. Add a dog and you can get a hell lot of treasures!

ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 07:00 PM EDT (US)     16 / 19       
that x5 used to be significant.

in TWC it became near useless.

there was another factor i forgot to meantion. battle starts way earlier in TWC as well, generally treasure hunting ends when battles starts, so you have less time to treasure hunt in TWC.

hellofromireland
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 05:18 AM EDT (US)     17 / 19       
I like the idea of the major. If there was a way to choose

Major medium stats and very weak but large aura boost to attack
or
Sniper high attack and multiplier vs mercs and WC but same health and slow firing time.


I'm actually from N.Ireland
KingSteve3721
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 12:31 PM EDT (US)     18 / 19       
A universal bonus to natives is that their WCs are better than explorers.

Although the iro wc is op, and aztecs was underdeveloped....

But, the reload time for the starting crackshot was reduced, i dont know how much, but i can tell a significant difference between aoe3 and twc.

I agree somewhat.


[FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
“I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
"The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
"The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
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ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 03:24 PM EDT (US)     19 / 19       

Quote:

Although the iro wc is op, and aztecs was underdeveloped....

i think aztec WC is underdevelopred by players.

although i dont play Aztec, i feel that war priest should be used on WC dance during battle to keep WC at high health, you should get way more shipment than opponent.

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