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Topic Subject:Ossians Revolution idea.
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Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 10:53 AM EDT (US)         
Ok we all know that rev is really UP and the only thing it's good for is if you already won and want to win faster, in that case why not get trade monopoly and win without blood?

So this is my balance idea to improve the flaws of revolution.

  • First off the back bone of any revolution force, the Colonial militia, they really are good... when you get them free from the villagers, besides that 100 food for this unit is really too much to ask for a player without a econ anymore (unless he has boats but thats a different matter) I think lowering their cost by 25-35% isn't too much to ask.

  • 2nd is the shipments, I really don't see a problem with these shipments considering they give 16 troops 4 cannons (though weak they really kill buildings/units IMO a lot better then a organ contrary to what other people say)

    the problem I have is the simple fact after you revolt that your shipments are sooooo slow, I think your shipment XP needed should be halved, you have to kill a whole army and then some to get a shipment at this point assuming it's late IV and you already tried your best to get your factories.

  • The final point on hand I think is once you revolt you can't build anything, for some civs I think battlefield construction works with CM? (I have no proof of this I'm just assuming) once you revolt you sure as heck know they will be coming for your rax and TC and once they do your dead in the water and might as well quit because all that stocked food is worthless.
    To counter this problem I believe you should be able to build CM from your houses I mean why not? are militia just villagers with guns anyways?

    Ok I do realize that putting all these changes in could be too much of a boost but I think they all are good ideas, maybe make the shipments come in 1/3 faster I dunno.

    Discuss.


    *WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
    Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
    Contact your network admin for more details
    about this special edition of player...

    Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
  • AuthorReplies:
    Basilis
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 11:18 AM EDT (US)     1 / 31       
    lol destroy revolter's houses and he is oused and no way he can get out of it :P

    your idea improves te revolution a little but needs more :S

    somme
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 11:53 AM EDT (US)     2 / 31       
    Revolution is for SP. Don't boost...

    ESO : Pcfreak8
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
    A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
    Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
    Ossian
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 11:57 AM EDT (US)     3 / 31       
    Who plays SP? o.O

    *WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
    Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
    Contact your network admin for more details
    about this special edition of player...

    Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
    tvurt
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 01:20 PM EDT (US)     4 / 31       
    Why boost it? Do you remember fast Titan?
    That was sooo much fun.
    Let's not put in an OP game ender for build order players to copy. The whole idea was just silly, and I am glad it does not work!


    tvurt
    [img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/tvurt@5@3@1@aoe3x@250,250,250@220,172,58.png[/img]
    [img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/tvurt@5@3@1@aoe3@250,250,250@220,172,58.png[/img]
    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 02:04 PM EDT (US)     5 / 31       
    This is totally different then titans.

    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩџ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    tvurt
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 03:21 PM EDT (US)     6 / 31       
    How? 90% of my games are team, where it is simple to get to industrial. 4 TC ports with a food sling for 65 food CM? Who cares what the starting vill pop was with other players to feed the revolution?

    I really want to see ports boosted, but with a small boost to ports and to revolution = slow booming games till revolution. Yuck

    I wish revolution was more like rag, where you got some great heros, and it could end the game, but if it did not you had a chance to bouce back.

    There are just so many things wrong with revolution, I hope it just stays useless.


    tvurt
    [img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/tvurt@5@3@1@aoe3x@250,250,250@220,172,58.png[/img]
    [img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/tvurt@5@3@1@aoe3@250,250,250@220,172,58.png[/img]
    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 03:45 PM EDT (US)     7 / 31       
    90% of your games are team, 90% of games of some players are 1v1, 90% of some players is ffa.

    What did titan do?

    It gave you an uber 1337 titan. you pwned your opponents and won. (unless that meteor storm had other ideas, or heros of ragnorak wanted to join the party).

    What does revolution do?
    It removes your entire economy (slight difference with titans)
    You cant make new settler (i personally prefer ragnorak)

    You get colonel militia that are some kind of inferior veteran musks

    You get ironclads that look really cool, but cant beat a frigate and got a build limit.

    You get gatlin guns that sound really cool, but hardly make a scratch on another cannon.


    Ill personally prefer a titan. If he dies, you just continue the game. If rev fails, it is 2v3 (assuming team game).

    The other players can indeed feed him. Whats the purpose? Your opponents got 3 ecos. Your team going to feed someone to mass something that is inferior to a veteran musk? Sure with 65 food they are cheaper. But still, veteran musks vs guard units? No thanks.

    EDIT: 80% of my games are also team games. Never noticed it was easy to get industrial. 95% of the team games are rushes.


    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩџ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    [This message has been edited by schildpad (edited 01-26-2007 @ 03:47 PM).]

    F1RE_FLY
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 03:49 PM EDT (US)     8 / 31       
    I don't think lowering militia cost is good because the whole point is to get a huge army that can't be easily replaced.

    Shipments do need to come faster though, and iron clads need a slight boost. That is all that revolution needs, I think. I'm no expert on revolution though...


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    sandman666
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 03:57 PM EDT (US)     9 / 31       
    yeah improve shipment speed then spain semi fi with 3 tc then revolt and get 10000 shipments. they are a bit weak right now lets give them more op strats really nice idea...
    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 03:59 PM EDT (US)     10 / 31       
    Serious sand relax. Improving shipment speed is not necesarily the same as making it 10 times faster.

    Face it, revolution is totally USELESS. It needs a boost, a LARGE boost. Spain op because of revolution? Dream on.


    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩџ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    Ossian
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 04:09 PM EDT (US)     11 / 31       

    Quote:

    I don't think lowering militia cost is good because the whole point is to get a huge army that can't be easily replaced.

    Shipments do need to come faster though, and iron clads need a slight boost. That is all that revolution needs, I think. I'm no expert on revolution though...

    But the thing is I revolted and had around 1.9k food and 1000 wood.

    I built 19 CM which his guard abus pretty much 1 hit kill.

    I should of been able to build a ton more for 2k resources, not this little skirmish group that died in less time that it took to build them.

    I would take villagers over them thank you.

    (also I would think french CM should be a lot better considering CDB are worth more and are STRONGER then CM)


    *WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
    Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
    Contact your network admin for more details
    about this special edition of player...

    Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
    Angel Walker
    Skirmisher
    (id: Just a player)
    posted 01-26-07 04:30 PM EDT (US)     12 / 31       
    Neither Ironclads or Colonial Militia need a boost. They just need to be affect by upgrades... Of course a Frigate beats an Ironclad - that's because the Frigate had been upgraded with a Card and 2 or 3 techs, which, at this moment, don't affect Ironclads.

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    schildpad
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 04:39 PM EDT (US)     13 / 31       
    How is giving them 50% more HP and 25% more damage (normal upgrades) not a boost? Okay it isnt a direct boost, but still i see it as a boost.

    And how about militia? Besides socket bajonet i dont see which upgrades you want to affect them (dont know if inf cards help them). And without any upgrades, a veteran musk is still better then a militia for (almost) same price.

    Being able to build new settler would also help. Allthough it would mean that brittish would be able to recover very fast with estates. But it would require much food, and with current unit stats it would still be useless


    "such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩџ_ĬĬ

    Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

    somme
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-26-07 04:41 PM EDT (US)     14 / 31       

    Quote:

    Who plays SP?

    More than plays MP :O

    ESO : Pcfreak8
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
    A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
    Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
    KingSteve3721
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 12:28 PM EDT (US)     15 / 31       

    Quote:

    I think your shipment XP needed should be halved

    Realistic too. Theoretically your colony will be providing shipments to you so it should be faster in some way...

    Quote:

    More than plays MP :O

    So boost it to give MP players a chance to use it, and make it some kind of titan thing in SP....

    It sucks in both kinds, its not like it owns in SP and sucks MP anyways


    [FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
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    kingcraigj
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 01:10 PM EDT (US)     16 / 31       
    the rev idea is just stupid, why would a army revolt from a home city thousands of miles away? maybe the native amries but not european and other far away countrys?
    KingSteve3721
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 01:14 PM EDT (US)     17 / 31       
    I really hope you were either kidding or know nothing about the colonization time period...

    [FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
    “I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
    "The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
    "The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
    "Dogs, would you live forever?"- Frederick the Great (addressing retreating Prussians at the Battle of Kolin)
    Legioona
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 03:45 PM EDT (US)     18 / 31       

    Quoted from kingcraigj:

    the rev idea is just stupid, why would a army revolt from a home city thousands of miles away? maybe the native amries but not european and other far away countrys?

    lmao, that statement was actally good enough to earn it's place in my sig.


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    Putting the "sensual" back in "nonconsensual" since 2006.
    Cyclohexane
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 04:14 PM EDT (US)     19 / 31       
    FYI,
    The British can build colonial militia from houses (the Estates card does not need to be sent before Revolution). I know this does not help much, but it can be done. I think it should be the same for all civilizations. This may be a bug stemming from the fact the British can build villagers from houses once the Estates card is sent. I am not sure.

    I think the XP should be reset to 0 once you revolt, that way shipments would come in much faster (like the start of a game). Ironclads should benefit from other ship upgrade technology as well and have siege armor opposed to range armor. This would greatly increase their naval effectiveness and is logical. This little change would make them quite formidable on the water.


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    The Crazy Idiot
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 04:41 PM EDT (US)     20 / 31       
    Revolt gives you 200 pop, you cant house them.
    Lord Tahattus
    Supreme Emperor
    posted 01-27-07 04:51 PM EDT (US)     21 / 31       

    Quote:

    lol destroy revolter's houses and he is oused and no way he can get out of it :P

    Quote:

    Revolt gives you 200 pop, you cant house them.

    Quote:

    the rev idea is just stupid, why would a army revolt from a home city thousands of miles away? maybe the native amries but not european and other far away countrys?

    "kingcraigj
    Colonial Militia
    Location: wales, britain"


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    DrWho42
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 06:34 PM EDT (US)     22 / 31       
    I had first thought that Revolution was a cool new feature of TWC's. However, having tried it in several situations, I agree that it needs some adjustment to make it more viable.

    Revolution offers new technology to your colony; ironclads and gatling guns. These units should be much stronger and deadlier. Historically these two inventions changed warfare. But in TWC they just look and sound cool. If these units were significantly improved, then I think that Revolution would become a more useful age. By revolting, you would be hoping that the improved military units, but zero economy, would triumph over the other players more traditional military and economy.

    Regarding shipments, someone posted earlier that they should arrive quicker or come with less experience because these shipments would not be coming from a distant home city. That is a good point, however revolutionary governments were typically bankrupt and in some disaray. So shipments coming at their usual pace would refect the inefficiencies of a new government.

    In my opinion, something could be done to improve Revolution. I think that strengthening the gatling gun and ironclad would be the best way to acheive that end.

    Hockeystar
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 06:40 PM EDT (US)     23 / 31       
    You guys are afraid to boost a UP strat because you fear it might become OP.
    somme
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-27-07 06:58 PM EDT (US)     24 / 31       

    Quote:

    You guys are afraid to boost a UP strat because you fear it might become OP.

    If it aint broke don't fix it. ES has got bigger things to worry about than boosting gay ragnarok type strats.

    ESO : Pcfreak8
    "In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is." -Jan L. A. van de Snepscheu
    A pessimist is usually right and never disappointed.
    Any history buff knows that nothing stops a cannon like a good uppercut. - BeatnikJoe
    Lord Tahattus
    Supreme Emperor
    posted 01-27-07 10:33 PM EDT (US)     25 / 31       
    16 CM > 20 CM
    Ironclads more HP, broadside attack instead of long-ranged.
    4 > 6 Gatling guns.


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