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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Abus guns and Sioux
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Topic Subject:Abus guns and Sioux
matt light
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 03:50 PM EDT (US)         
Question: Do abus guns count as artillery in the fact that the sioux explorer would get the huge attack against them after researching the firepit tech?

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AuthorReplies:
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 03:55 PM EDT (US)     1 / 22       
I don't think so, I think abus are siege troopers and artillery is artillery.

That would be very OP otherwise.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 04:04 PM EDT (US)     2 / 22       
Abus aren't siege troopers either anymore.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 01-26-07 04:31 PM EDT (US)     3 / 22       
In The Warchiefs, Abus are classified just like Skirmishers.

ESO - Walker

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Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Eicho
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 05:40 PM EDT (US)     4 / 22       
this has opened me a few questions. (i dont know how to look for it, so if you can , please tell me)

Abus guns are clasified as skirms.. former light infantry.. canons , lacers get bonus vs them, right?

how are classified greandiers?? do skrim get bonus vs them??

what is a siege trooper?
i see that minute men and oprichink get bonus vs thm, but i dont really know what they are.. i think they are greandiers and cannons.. or units with high siege (ie. opris, grenaiders..)

flacontes, great canonns, organ guns are artillary, but they are siege trooper?

and culverin , mortar are sigeeg trooper??

thanks for help.

[This message has been edited by Eicho (edited 01-26-2007 @ 05:41 PM).]

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 01-26-07 06:26 PM EDT (US)     5 / 22       
this has opened me a few questions. (i dont know how to look for it, so if you can , please tell me)
Abus guns are clasified as skirms.. former light infantry.. canons , lacers get bonus vs them, right?

Yes, they are Infantry and therefore Lancers/cannons own them.

how are classified greandiers?? do skrim get bonus vs them??

Heavy Infantry and Yes

what is a siege trooper?
i see that minute men and oprichink get bonus vs thm, but i dont really know what they are.. i think they are greandiers and cannons.. or units with high siege (ie. opris, grenaiders..)

Siege Troops are special units for sieging, Grenadiers, PumaSpearmen, Arrow Knights, Mantlets, Rams, Petards, Holcan Spearmen, Oprichniks, Fluyts, Galleons, Monitors (IMO Abus should be siege troop or lose siege damage)

flacontes, great canonns, organ guns are artillary, but they are siege trooper?

Nope, Siege Troop is a specialized unit for sieging (Fluyts/Galleons are an exception) Artillery is its own class and has its own multiplyer (Opris have 2x vs artillery also)

and culverin , mortar are sigeeg trooper??

Nope they are both Artillery.

thanks for help.

np


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 01-26-07 11:18 PM EDT (US)     6 / 22       

Quote:

Yes, they are Infantry and therefore Lancers/cannons own them

cannons definitely do not own abus.


"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 01-27-07 02:31 AM EDT (US)     7 / 22       
Oh you mean the thing that does 300 damage to a unit with less than 200 doesn't own it?

Abus only own cannons when its like the 2 falc shipment vs 20 abus otherwise if you have say 5 falcs to those 20 abus, you're going to own them, hard.


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Medio
Skirmisher
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 01-27-07 04:16 AM EDT (US)     8 / 22       
But not as hard as you expect to own previously-known-as-light infantry. While falcs beat abus guns cost-effective, the odds doesn't have to shift much towards the Otto's favour in order to make those Abus guns win. Abus guns are far better against falcs than, for example, streltsy or skirms (forest prowlers are an OP exception).
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 02:55 PM EDT (US)     9 / 22       
You have to micro cannons against abus guns, or you won't win cost effectively. It's really simple. Just select each cannons individually and target seperate areas of the abus formation.

If the abus are in stagger mode I think it may be a bit less cost effective.

You can't use abus cost effectively against heavy cannons, provided your enemy micros them properly.


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And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 04:14 PM EDT (US)     10 / 22       

Quoted from LordKivlov:

Abus only own cannons when its like the 2 falc shipment vs 20 abus otherwise if you have say 5 falcs to those 20 abus, you're going to own them, hard.


Not very experienced with Ottomans, are you?

With proper maneuvering and the stagger formation I'm going to own 5 Falconets with my 20 Abus and keep over half of them, if not most of them alive.

Don't believe me? Just ask Fire Fly.

Quoted from James Lock:

You can't use abus cost effectively against heavy cannons, provided your enemy micros them properly.


Sure you can. Because you'll always greatly outnumber the Heavy Cannons, who's numbers are limited by a major bottleneck (number of Factories and their production time). While late game I can afford to spam Abus Guns from three-four Foundaries at -40% train time (church tech).


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 04:50 PM EDT (US)     11 / 22       
i rest my case

"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 01-27-07 04:59 PM EDT (US)     12 / 22       
Meh, 95% of the otto's I play at the Captain-LTColonol level don't micro abus against my falcs/horse art/heavy cannons, They run them up and try to kill them. theres a few that actually micro them and I don't use falcs against micro'd abus, I lame halbs against that.

But the fact still stands, an abus cannot kill a cannon in 1 shot, but a cannon can kill abus in 1 shot, so in my book. That is owned. And honestly, who doesn't micro their cannons with the crappy AI that they have?

I rest my case.


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 05:12 PM EDT (US)     13 / 22       
You know, un-microed Culverins also don't counter Falconets (because they seem to want to fire on everything but their intended target) ...

Un-microed Janissaries tend to do a really crappy job of protecting against cavalry ...

Un-microed Cavalry tends to run straight into heavy infantry, instead of flanking around ...

But, that's why we're in control.

And why Falconets don't own Abus Guns.

Regardless of what some lazy newbs fail to do.


"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 01-27-07 05:22 PM EDT (US)     14 / 22       
Meh, I've never lost to an otto when its gone into fort falcs/halbs vs jans/abus.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
DeMoNZ
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 05:51 PM EDT (US)     15 / 22       
1. Cannons do NOT own Abus guns. They're supposed to but they simply don't
2. Skirms do get a bonus v Grenadiers if I recall correctly but they're not very good v them!
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 06:11 PM EDT (US)     16 / 22       
thats because halbs are OP it has nothing to do with abus vs cannon

"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

DeMoNZ
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 06:18 PM EDT (US)     17 / 22       
'Meh, I've never lost to an otto when its gone into fort falcs/halbs vs jans/abus.'

Then your enemies' micro probably isn't very good. I played a 3v3 with some PR 30~ guys v some others who were around ~32. I went with falcs while my part went strelets + those portuguese units and culvs.
One of my enemies was Otto and made about 15 abus, which simply owned my 20 falconets (if it wasn't for my partners killing those abus).
Try playing v people with decent micro, and it'll be hard as hell.

PS. I don't know at what level you play, but when someone has an army of jans/abus and you get falcs/halbs, doesn't mean he's skilled enough to actually aim his abus on your falcs and he might aswell been just watching his units fight while he was doing nothing.

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 01-27-07 07:48 PM EDT (US)     18 / 22       
Demonz, Try reading my past posts before posting, I already stated what my PR is and that my enemy's micro is horrible.

And its not my halbs that are doing it, its my falcs.

But yea I get the point, abus are OP and need to be nerfed.


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 10:32 PM EDT (US)     19 / 22       

Quote:

You know, un-microed Culverins also don't counter Falconets (because they seem to want to fire on everything but their intended target) ...
Un-microed Janissaries tend to do a really crappy job of protecting against cavalry ...

Un-microed Cavalry tends to run straight into heavy infantry, instead of flanking around ...

But, that's why we're in control.

And why Falconets don't own Abus Guns.

Regardless of what some lazy newbs fail to do.

QFT.

It is hilarious how it seems without micro, your units would just get mauled by running into their counters.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
F1RE_FLY
Skirmisher
posted 01-27-07 11:05 PM EDT (US)     20 / 22       

Quote:

With proper maneuvering and the stagger formation I'm going to own 5 Falconets with my 20 Abus and keep over half of them, if not most of them alive.

Don't believe me? Just ask Fire Fly

Don't bother asking. He's right.


~иииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии~
ESO: F1R╔_FLП
~иииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии~
Beren Erchamion
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 00:38 AM EDT (US)     21 / 22       
point is abus gun do counter artillery effectivly.

culv should counter abus is another debate.....

LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 01-28-07 01:29 AM EDT (US)     22 / 22       
Alright, I've been thinkin about this stupid discussion on the way home from Hockey.

My first statement that started all this

Yes, they are Infantry and therefore Lancers/cannons own them.

When I said this it WAS NOT my intention to have this discussion, I am fully aware that abus micro'd are going to kill any number of falcs and I am fully aware that micro is a huge part in this game because all my strats require a huge amount of micro on my part (hit and run, cavalry raids).

Secondly when I said they are INFANTRY AND THERE LANCERS/CANNONS OWN THEM. I meant it as Yea they're classified as Infantry, so Lancers with a x3(4) bonus vs them will kill them and Cannons with a x3(usually) vs them will kill them.

I used the term "own" because lets take a look, abus have 150 hp or so? Falcs do 300~ damage to Infantry. Lancers do 60 dmg ever 1.5 so they're going to kill them in 3 hits.

Now I know this must have been a little misleading to some, and I know that abus kill falcs, I have terrible nightmares of my falcs getting torn up by abus.

and lastly my comments on most otto player micro being crappy is because everyone I play against in my skill rating area uses otto's silk road and retardedly strong units to their advantage. Instead of playing it smart and microing their jans and abus around a bit, they just send them in wave after wave untill I die and trust me eventually it works. And for the sake of my sanity don't post going "Well you should be better and not get pinned, send something out to raid blah blah blah Im a big tard who gives crappy advice". (Yes I am a bit irritable right now and this isnt aimed at everyone)


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 01-28-2007 @ 01:30 AM).]

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