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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Iroc vs Coyote runners- what counters them?
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Topic Subject:Iroc vs Coyote runners- what counters them?
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theboywonder916
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 02:42 PM EDT (US)         
I just played an aztec and im not too bad with iroquoise by any means, but it seems no matter what i built, coyote runners cost effectively beat them. prowlers do pretty good, but they only get off one volley before the coyote runners are in melee range, and own the prowlers. when doing some serious microing i can go 40 coyote vs 40 prowlers and have 10 left over. add mantlets and cav and they get owned, add cannons and they dont help much because again the coyotes are so fast, the cannons get off one shot and the coyotes can run around my prowlers and melee the cannons before they get another shot off. What do i do? it seems like i cant build anything that will counter them.
AuthorReplies:
George_III
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 02:59 PM EDT (US)     1 / 37       
I guess tommies would counter them, coyotes are like cav...
theboywonder916
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 03:08 PM EDT (US)     2 / 37       
REALLY!? you just changed my life! i never knew that i thought they were like hi, pikes or rods n such. i thought that prowlers counter them on papers, but in the game it doesnt work because the coyotes get them in melee to fast. thats amazing. thank you
George_III
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 03:19 PM EDT (US)     3 / 37       
Ha lol, no problem

[This message has been edited by George_III (edited 01-28-2007 @ 03:19 PM).]

theboywonder916
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 03:37 PM EDT (US)     4 / 37       
I just found the description that said that coyote runners are good vs skirmishers and artillery. I feel silly now. So they are like hussars or something. does that mean that tommy's bonus vs cav will count on towards them too?
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 03:57 PM EDT (US)     5 / 37       
The same iro unit that counters everything else - FP ...

Maybe a musket rider here and there.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Eicho
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 04:01 PM EDT (US)     6 / 37       
coyote = husuars, good vs former LI and artillary

eagle knight = dragoons, good vs cavalary and artillary.
but i have heareds that eagles are for some reason good vs HI lategame, but that is not on papers.

(i dotn have TWC yet, it hasnt been released on argentina)

theboywonder916
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 04:17 PM EDT (US)     7 / 37       
forest prowlers sure dont counter coyotes.
F1RE_FLY
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 05:01 PM EDT (US)     8 / 37       
It is coyotes who don't counter forest prowlers well enough.

I suggest you stop playing the lamest civilization. Forest prowlers are unbeatable.


~иииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииииии~
ESO: F1R╔_FLП
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Medio
Skirmisher
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 01-28-07 05:07 PM EDT (US)     9 / 37       

Quote:

forest prowlers sure dont counter coyotes.

forest prowlers counter just about everything in this game.

Quote:

I suggest you stop playing the lamest civilization.

What's the problem with that? obviously, he's new to the game (TWC at least) so he's not going to lame with it.

And I think it's strange people need an excuse nowadays if they want to play Iroquois.

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 01-28-07 05:08 PM EDT (US)     10 / 37       
Eagle Knights aren't good vs Artillery, even though they can be considered Dragoons with two less legs. But due to their massive pop effectiveness, instant fire comebined with low ROF and a card that gives them 18 Range, they also do pretty good vs Heavy Infantry.

ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 05:18 PM EDT (US)     11 / 37       

Quote:

It is coyotes who don't counter forest prowlers well enough.

I suggest you stop playing the lamest civilization. Forest prowlers are unbeatable

Really, stop being a pansy, by no means are FP unbeatable, infact falcs counter them well.


*WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
Contact your network admin for more details
about this special edition of player...

Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 01-28-07 05:46 PM EDT (US)     12 / 37       

Quote:

Really, stop being a pansy, by no means are FP unbeatable, infact falcs counter them well.

Quote:

falcs counter them well.

Quote:

falcs



ESO - Walker

>> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
"Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.

[This message has been edited by Just a player (edited 01-28-2007 @ 06:30 PM).]

Gomezd
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 06:26 PM EDT (US)     13 / 37       
^ hahahaha. Try mass cassadores?

Then lose half of them to the Warchiefs eagle shot thingy

[This message has been edited by Gomezd (edited 01-28-2007 @ 06:27 PM).]

theboywonder916
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 06:47 PM EDT (US)     14 / 37       
Hmm it didnt seem to bother you so much when you were testing your zap strategy against me. Well thank you for your suggestion, im not really sure what the consequences could be if i did in fact continue using them, but will consider it none the less. besides they dont counter everything in the game. in age three vs some cannons and hussars, the cannons and hussars do just fine.
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 07:00 PM EDT (US)     15 / 37       

Quote:

^ hahahaha. Try mass cassadores?

One would need one HELL of a micro ability.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-07 08:34 PM EDT (US)     16 / 37       
i like tommys in colonial and the renegade dutch card in fort for dealing with coyotes, i find coyotes more threatening than normal cav because it seems the suffer less pathfinding issues and there are more of them so they can swarm really easily.

Quote:

And I think it's strange people need an excuse nowadays if they want to play Iroquois.

we dont, f1re has just been beaten by too many iroquois it seems. i would take superfast OPberdeirs with a supreme backing economy over FP any day, but i like the iroquois and dont like dutch.


"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

[This message has been edited by exc4libulz1022 (edited 01-28-2007 @ 08:38 PM).]

jayce
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 09:10 AM EDT (US)     17 / 37       

Quote:

when doing some serious microing i can go 40 coyote vs 40 prowlers and have 10 left over.

If this is accurate it just shows how pathetically op fp's are. 40 forest prowlers beat 40 units of their direct counter which cost more than them.

LaveY
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 09:39 AM EDT (US)     18 / 37       
Try to watch Ender_Ward vs spdr,you will find it on age sanc.He "own" a FP spammer.

eehhh,i just realized I got a bit off topic,sorry


Proud member of EO66

[This message has been edited by LaveY (edited 01-29-2007 @ 09:40 AM).]

Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 10:12 AM EDT (US)     19 / 37       
Put 10 FP vs 10 coyote or something, at such a high number as 40 it's not the FP thats OP it's it's type that is because of bad pathfinding and all.

*WINDOWS CRITICAL ERROR 19891126*
Product ID: Ossian Discontinued
Contact your network admin for more details
about this special edition of player...

Allthough cetans are darker, did you know that if you read the word 'cetan' as a dutch word, that you get the same sound as when reading 'satan' in english.-Furby Killer
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 11:51 AM EDT (US)     20 / 37       

Quote:

i would take superfast OPberdeirs with a supreme backing economy over FP any day

I'd take superlame Forest OProwlers over macehuatlin any day.


My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
theboywonder916
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 12:02 PM EDT (US)     21 / 37       
the 40 and 40 thing was a bit exaggerated. I had some muskets and 3 great houses within range, all with my villies garrisoned. What i was getting at was i was running the fp that he had clicked all his coyotes on around my base, while all my other fps could fire on them, uninterrupted.

I already got my answer from this thread so i dont care if it gets closed from all the arguing, but so you know-

I would say that 90% of the games i win with iroc are due to my opponent massing the wrong unit. Until i know what my opponent is going to build, my first large attack army consists of 5 mantlets, some prowlers and a few musket riders. and honestly the majority of people just mass skirms/musketeers or halbs. now im sorry that people LAME the wrong units. Im sorry that your strategy is to lame skirmishers, and those skirmishers arent as good as fps, that upsets a lot of people, i know, but hey, why not lame hand cav, lame cannons. when it comes to iroquoise, people stop using strategy.

Trust me, my record is not 100% i get beat just slightly less that i win. iroquoise are quite beatable, you can do it, i believe in you.

Medio
Skirmisher
(id: Mediolanus)
posted 01-29-07 01:10 PM EDT (US)     22 / 37       

Quote:

why not lame hand cav

Because hand cav, quite simply, sucks. You cannot lame them because they aren't lame (Imperial Gendarmes excluded)

Quote:

lame cannons

Because Forest Prowlers are too good against cannons for what they are.

Quote:

when it comes to iroquoise, people stop using strategy.

When I use Iroquois people do use strategy. In fact, people stop using strategy when set up against Germany (I had a dutch one trying to pike rush me once).

[q]Trust me, my record is not 100% i get beat just slightly less that i win.q]

One person's stats shouldn't be used as an argument. I mean, I have a 100% win% with Russians!

That you loose is not because the civ is balanced. The civ is too strong. As a result, you win. As a result, your PR goes up. As a result, you are matched against stronger players. You loose. You now have a 50% win%, but because your civ is so strong, you don't play against the people that actually have the same skill as you (unless you think picking a civ is "skill").

Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 02:47 PM EDT (US)     23 / 37       

Quote:

Try to watch Ender_Ward vs spdr,you will find it on age sanc.He "own" a FP spammer.

I do not mean to discredit Ender in any way, as he did a fantastic job at disarming an OP civ. However, it is obvious that one win does not mean that Iros aren't OP anymore and that ottos own them. Ender used a very effective and, sometimes considered OP, strategy that is not available on many other maps. In addition, the Iro player could have just had a bad game.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
F1RE_FLY
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 02:51 PM EDT (US)     24 / 37       
"loose" isn't how you spell "lose" Sjonnie. And since you misused it twice I think you actually don't know how to spell that 4 letter word...

We all know that I hate OP civs, so of course I think people who play them need an excuse. If all you do is FF for prowlers and mantlets then what's the point?

Actually I don't think there IS an excuse for laming a civ. That person just likes to win too much.

I doubt that Sjonnie does that as often as other iroquois players, but still, the civ is rediculously easy to use (as you admit) yet you still use it.


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ESO: F1R╔_FLП
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sandman666
Skirmisher
posted 01-29-07 03:09 PM EDT (US)     25 / 37       
it's not only prowlers that explorer is really rediculous
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