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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » The Ottomans In Patch 1.03
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Topic Subject:The Ottomans In Patch 1.03
Voltiguer
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 10:43 AM EDT (US)         
I know there have been many topics about this already, but I just wanted to make a new one for this patch now that its finally out. I am going to tell you my opinion about Ottos in that very patch.

Pre-patch I thought Ottomans would be an ok civ that was going to struggle vs strong LI civs in general and vs France especially.

Many predicted Ottos were going to be weak, unuseable, overnerfed, the new Germans.

But I can tell you, thats nonsense. Ottomans are IMO still one of the top civs on most maps (even on orinoco vs most civs!) and are very potent.

Yes, you cant stay in age2 for 20 mins vs very good players anymore and win by making nothing but jans and abus guns.

But was it really good that way? I dont think so.

Actually I'm pretty happy about the nerf: The Ottoman civ has become a civ that needs more skill to be used and is less noobified.

On the top level you now finally need to do some smart moves and have some micro.
Ottomans are still very good, you just need to play a *bit* smarter now.

Contrary common believe Ottomans dont have many problems vs LI civs (Sioux, brits, Dutch etc) nor vs France's FF.

This here might seem like egopost but imo it just proves my point: (rated game on new england)

http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameStats.aspx?loc=en-US&GameID=cdc25a0c-1c29-463c-ba4e-2d5e2824b9ce&s Flag=1&md=ZS_Supremacy

The key with Ottomans vs French FFers is no longer to make nothing but jan abus and stay in age2 forever but rather getting tps quikly, then making a medium sized age2 army (including hussars!!!!) and aging to age3 with EP. Then upgrade your army and add some nice shipments.

In the future age3 is going to be more important for the Ottomans.

Actually not much has changed. One of the only things is, that lbow massers now are a serious danger in age2 unless you have hussars


What do you think about the Ottoman changes?

AuthorReplies:
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 11:09 AM EDT (US)     1 / 20       
The boost to longbows is very helpful against ottomans. It doesn't mean you can survive without making hussars, but you at least can rely on something to take out jannisaries now.

I've beaten my ottoman friend with both Britain and Russia since the patch has been released. We are of similar skill level. He's a little higher ranked than me.

Though I don't see Ottoman as a weak civ. You still need cavalry when playing against them.


Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
steve09
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 11:32 AM EDT (US)     2 / 20       
yep, all this patch did was force the ottoman players to make hussars, not mass abus guns.

quoted from jafit talking smack about ender in regards to the abus nerf: "He's probably in a fetal position on the floor holding an action figure abus gun."
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 11:57 AM EDT (US)     3 / 20       
I honestly think it's too early to make an honest evaluation of what's balanced and what's not, but I agree that Ottos will remain just as strong, maybe just a bit less but require more skill, than pre 1.03 Ottos.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
ziGGysiGGy43
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 12:57 PM EDT (US)     4 / 20       

Quoted from Jameslock:

The boost to longbows is very helpful against ottomans. It doesn't mean you can survive without making hussars, but you at least can rely on something to take out jannisaries now.

I've beaten my ottoman friend with both Britain and Russia since the patch has been released. We are of similar skill level. He's a little higher ranked than me.

Though I don't see Ottoman as a weak civ. You still need cavalry when playing against them.

EGOPOST! EGOPOST!

I agree with everything Dopple said. I've tried going with Hussar/Abus but it is generally to slow (for me at least) to do well.

XploSionS
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 01:10 PM EDT (US)     5 / 20       
wow nice game stats and win there dopp...

anyway im intreged into the fact that he made about as many units as you (this includes about 30 cuirs...) and his economy was LEAGES ahead of your and that you still won... that just proves it ottos arnt OP NERF THEM (j/k)


eso name: _XploSionS__

===quit due to the many many whinge and whine topics===
Adam42
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 02:10 PM EDT (US)     6 / 20       
i think it's too early to say for definite how good ottoman is by this time, but my first impressions tell me not much has changed.

Imo, otto will always be a noobified civ unless the complete principle of the civ is changed.

Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 02:30 PM EDT (US)     7 / 20       
The only trouble I have after the patch is against Sioux, Aztec and French. I even almost beat Groni's Dutch with the over-nerfed Ottomans (lost due to a remarkably stupid mistake on my part ... grrr). Ronin ... almost FTW. The way they annihilated a buch of Hussars evoked a "WTF?!" comment from Groni.
God if only I didn't forget to have some anti-cav with the 20 Grenadiers who were taking down his Factories ...

And the only reason I have trouble against France is because no matter how many Cuirassiers my Ronin annihilate more just keep on coming again and again, even when I counter raid and kill like 5 CdBs per raid.
Even before I finish wiping out a group of 10 Cuirassiers and ~15 Skirmishers, another group shows up.
And then they become Gendermes and then I run out of mines and plantations/3 TPs can no longer support my gold requirements and I get overwhelmed by 2 pop Gendermes with 1000HP.

And every game in which I tried to use Abus Guns I regretted it. Whoever said Brits stil need Hussars against Ottomans, no you don't. Try Longbows against them, you'll be shocked how quickly the Abus go down. Infact you can now go pure Longbow/Pike against an Ottoman right away and he's screwed.

I was playing Hippo's Brits, and with just pure Jans alone I was killing a ton of his villagers and Longbows, but he just kept on bleeing my forces until his economy overcame mine and it was GG. My Abus were useless, as were the resources invested into them. Going for Hussars was pointless since he had Pikes always near his Longbows, expecting them.



"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 03:08 PM EDT (US)     8 / 20       
I almost beat Groni's Dutch with my British, so that's not saying much Ender (I KNEW I should have turned my music down, didn't hear my 10 vils get raided!).

You make some valid points however.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
GreatViet
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 03:23 PM EDT (US)     9 / 20       
the word noobish civ should be used for british and french . otto required high skill to play and now they are like port in 1.02 strong but need urb3r skill to maneuver em
Titans_n00b
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 03:37 PM EDT (US)     10 / 20       
Otto require almost no sill to play.

When I first got the game, I worked up my way with Russian to beat the expert AI on about my fourth try. I did the same with every other civ.

When it came around to Otto, I beat it first try, no problem.

Otto is brainless. You don't even have to remember to click the villager button at the TC... it's the horrors of AQ all over again! Then, put your jans in melee, kill whatever troops he has, then go in and maul his town with your jans.


n00bing ftw.
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 03:37 PM EDT (US)     11 / 20       
I hope your being sarcastic, Otto required less micro than both of those civs. France is pretty standard, and while strong, is certainly not a laming civ except for age4+cuirs with thoroughbreds.

Britain requires the MOST micro out of the Euro civs IMO, maybe equal to Ports actually. I've beaten civs such as Sioux, Ottos and Dutch with Britain lately, but I've been scurrying around microing like crazy where as I KNOW that my enemy doesn't have to micro as much.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
ziGGysiGGy43
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 04:46 PM EDT (US)     12 / 20       
What do you think about doing a normal Jan Rush but instead of supplementing your Jans with Abus you make Hussar? I know most of the people I've talked to are saying Hussar/Abus works much better. But you can get more Jans out faster then Hussar and Jans do a good job at taking out other HI that damage your Hussar. Would this be effective? I already beat a Captain (I'm a 1st Lieutenant) doing it. Was it a stroke of luck or a decent strategty?
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 04:56 PM EDT (US)     13 / 20       

Quote:

And every game in which I tried to use Abus Guns I regretted it. Whoever said Brits stil need Hussars against Ottomans, no you don't. Try Longbows against them, you'll be shocked how quickly the Abus go down. Infact you can now go pure Longbow/Pike against an Ottoman right away and he's screwed.

I said you still need cavalry. If he ffs and you weren't expecting it, you need hussars to deal with cannons and in Fortress, though you may not need dragoons they are certainly a lot better at killing spahi, mamelukes than pikemen, who will drop like flies to Abus guns and or jannisaries.

This is assuming you don't rush the ottoman, if I had rushed him, then yeah wouldn't have needed cav atall, since he did a naked ff...


Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
Voltiguer
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 05:17 PM EDT (US)     14 / 20       
Well I personally dislike pure jan/hussar since it lacks some firepower and doesnt do that well vs massed HI.

Abus can annoy the crap out of the enemy and kill pikes/musks etc really fast.

IMO jan/abus/hussar is the best combo, though expensive. Jans soak up damage and melee together with hussars (melee jans kill any cav trying to catch the abus, hussars slaughter LI, abus kill any annoying HI inbetween), abus deal a lot of damage and hussars kill the unprotected LI.

I found hussars to be especially effective vs many Aztecs since they dont usually make pumas and many go mace/coyo instead of bbr.

futurehermit
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 06:19 PM EDT (US)     15 / 20       
i have 0 sympathy for otto players since they can just jan rush the xbow civs who really have no counter for this (assuming = skill players).

also previously it was just noobque and jan/abus massing every freakin' game. people who play otto must have a high tolerance for doing the same thing over and over and over.

i guess winning more often than not is a strong reinforcer :zzz:

xentelian
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 06:59 PM EDT (US)     16 / 20       
Personally, I found biggest flaw with this game (aside from bugs) was longbows sucking vs jan rush until 1.03/1.11 patches three days ago. British civ in quick search vs Otto is now possible to win.

I do still want to play as Ottoman, but it is nice to know that I can play an equal amount as British in games without feeling like at a complete disadvantage from the start of a game. (remember the..."greeks vs atlanteans in" titans)

Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 09:04 PM EDT (US)     17 / 20       
The thing is ... often your opponent won't go jans against your ottos once the game gets rolling, if ever. Therefore jans+hussars may not be a bad idea I think.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 03-17-07 11:54 PM EDT (US)     18 / 20       

Quote:

I can play an equal amount as British in games without feeling like at a complete disadvantage from the start of a game

british ranked even under germany in win and usage percent for most player ranks in 1.02. ur at a disadvantage no matter what :P

however with lbows more effectively stripping HI shields to let british hussars in, well, itll be interesting to see how the brits go now.


"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

SLEAK
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-07 04:47 AM EDT (US)     19 / 20       
Alot of noobs pwn the brits rank down to very low... They don't know how to play with them...

subliminal messages
Can you find it...?

Chuck Norris.

schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 03-18-07 05:53 AM EDT (US)     20 / 20       
Just played first 1v1 since 1.03 vs otto, i played dutch. Have to say pwning abus guns with skirms felt good.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

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