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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » France - how's the expansion?
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Topic Subject:France - how's the expansion?
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aoeplayer078
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-07 05:09 PM EDT (US)         
I'm a pretty set France player against the computer when alone or on the same team as some of my friends against the computer. I'm wondering how France fares in the expansion, as my friends and I are going to pick it up soon for some of the new content. I'm basically the ultimate bad France player (which is why I only use france when I'm against the CPU, otherwise I switch to Britain), I just drag myself to age four as quickly as I can, and then try to field the largest army of Courseir (the horse) possible.

How does the expansion change france's strategies, if at all, and any tips on adjusting to it? I've tried using musketeers and various army mixes, especially while my economy is weak, but once I have the resources to field them, nothing seems as effective as those horses plus a cannon or two.

AuthorReplies:
gunner1
Scenario Expert
posted 05-03-07 05:16 PM EDT (US)     1 / 34       
expainsion make them more over powered late game with an awssome card making thier cuirsarrsers have 2 population slots instead of 3

Scenarios I have made
Single Player-: CAMPAIGN - Christmas - Forest River RPG - Total Freedom
MultiPlayer-: Castle Blood Automatic - Mafia Hitman - Warrior Defence
ESO = sandstorm....................................................................................."I won the bet on 1.04!"
aoeplayer078
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-07 06:03 PM EDT (US)     2 / 34       
Did they improve any other units so I might diversify my army more? Or is my best bet still just the horses? It might be fun to mix up the army a bit, but SO not worth it in the original...
TheRomans
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-07 06:17 PM EDT (US)     3 / 34       
Not really, but now instead of 30 gendarmes + 30 voltigeurs you have 40 gendarmes + 40 Voltigeurs making it the best late game combo in the game.

+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+
SahintheFalcon
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-07 10:25 PM EDT (US)     4 / 34       
france is so strong late game now that I don't play nr anymore.

ESO Nickname: Eisenhower
Favorite Age 3 character: Sahin the Falcon
Unban James Lock!
cquinn333
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-07 11:11 PM EDT (US)     5 / 34       
the game wasnt made to be balanced with no rush...

I played it when i first had the game, so glad i stopped

KingSteve3721
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-07 11:51 PM EDT (US)     6 / 34       
Obviously a third of it should be, considering ES added treaty? Are you telling me that ES adds a game feature and doesn't balance for it?

[FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
“I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
"The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
"The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
"Dogs, would you live forever?"- Frederick the Great (addressing retreating Prussians at the Battle of Kolin)
exc4libulz1022
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 00:38 AM EDT (US)     7 / 34       
Are you telling me that ES adds a game feature and doesn't balance for it?

uhhhh...yes?

it is my opinion, and means no offense to anyone, that ES put treaty into the game solely because most people who play this game are, in fact, newbies (not to be confused with noobs, and not to say that i am not also a newbie). it is a common trait of newbies (not applying to all) to not enjoy getting rushed, because they are slow and tend to like to build up and have "cool big battles". and this huge player base of newbies demanded a game function that would actually disallow rushing in a way that simply TELLING people not to rush couldn't, because people would constantly break the "rules". therefore ES never even wanted treaty in the game nor intended for it to be there, it was a makeshift addition intended to satisfy a huge portion of their player base.

not only that, but it is literally impossible to balance the game for supremacy and treaty, unless they actually split them into completely different games with different civ advantages.

take ottomans, for example. very powerful early-mid game, but in exchange their power fades in the later game (if the game goes that far) due to various reasons (e.g. lack of strong cav counter). this is a balance trade-off that gives a civ uniqueness.

now, if ottos are weak in late game, looking at them from a treaty perspective, its obvious they would need a boost. however, if ES boosted ottos lategame, they wouldnt be weak at any time, and itd completely throw off supremacy.

look at it from the other way. lets say players randomly started making "no fort" games, where no one was allowed to go past colonial age. under large demand, ES implements a feature that disallows aging past colonial. would germans be balanced? hell no. theyd have to boost the german colonial a LOT to compete with other civs.

oh wait, supremacy just got completely screwed up again.

age games are, at the core, supremacy. and should be balanced as such.


"he will have a hard getting banks up"
~rel4xed

"I accidently drop kicked someone once"
~george_uk

TheRomans
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 01:03 AM EDT (US)     8 / 34       
While I mostly agree with exc4libulz1022, I think a few things balanced for treaty wouldn't affect supremacy at all or are currently OP in supremacy, but isn't seen often enough to be a cause for concern.

Things like adding a cap for Fur Trade would help balance treaty but not affect supremacy. When do you ever send this card in supremacy to exchange 70k food for gold? Heck, when do ever send this card in supremacy?

Things like Thoroughbred Gendarmes are OP in supremacy and in treaty, but is seen a lot more in treaty. This does not unjustify a needed nerf.


+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+
cquinn333
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 01:44 AM EDT (US)     9 / 34       
Yeah kingsteve, thats exactly what im saying.

Tell me how an Ottoman player is supposed to play a 40 minute treaty game against a dutch player.

I cant even begin to see how thats balanced, same for france.

i agree with exc4libulz1022 0

MusketKing
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 04:39 AM EDT (US)     10 / 34       
Obviously a third of it should be, considering ES added treaty? Are you telling me that ES adds a game feature and doesn't balance for it?

That's what I tell everyone when they balance isn't meant for no rush. They added a feature so it should be balanced for it.
I think it would be preety impossible to balance both of them. You can't even play as Sioux in no rush more than 20.

"The better at AoE, the worse at RL" - Doppel
After someone suggesting to make a meatshield to fight off petards..."Where can I find this meatshield? Is it in the TC?" - Sjalle

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On realising I was on a 2nd account:"Quinarvy ehhh" - Solus

RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR - VERY GG
Mine and Micky's OPness
James Lock
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 10:06 AM EDT (US)     11 / 34       
France has a card that turns all crossbowmen into skirmishers. Crossbowmen are cheaper and skirmishers are better against heavy infantry.

Thanks to all those that signed the petition to get me unbanned here.
And special thanks to smashnbash for making it.
aoeplayer078
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 01:14 PM EDT (US)     12 / 34       
Am I to understand I should be using some sort of additional unit with my horses? I tried the voltigeurs and was not very impressed (I didn't get them all the way to the Imperial Age upgrade though).

Is it really worth it add an additional unit (ie, volts) instead of a few more of those horses? Like I said, I'd love to diversify my army, but the Volts didn't seem to do much, and by the time they got up to a fight, my horses had taken care of the enemy...

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 01:28 PM EDT (US)     13 / 34       
Full Cuirs is beatable for some civs (Possibly all, but I haven't actually faced it to know), for example german dopps. However, Skirms, especially with CIR, beat all of the Cuirassier's counter units. Therefore a mix of the 2 is pretty unbeatable.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

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aoeplayer078
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 01:41 PM EDT (US)     14 / 34       
Another question regarding the expansion: if I purchase it and install it, will I still be able to play over LAN with my friends normal AOE3 until they purchase the expansion as well, or does upgrading to the expansion make it so I cannot play LAN with non-expansion holders?
Sporting_Lisbon
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 01:48 PM EDT (US)     15 / 34       
you can still launch aoe3 vanilla without expansion to play with them
KingSteve3721
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 03:20 PM EDT (US)     16 / 34       
age games are, at the core, supremacy. and should be balanced as such.

And who is anyone but ES to say that?

Look, im not a treaty player, I despise it, and i play pure Supremacy.

This is all logic here. If they add another game feature, they should balance for it. If they balance for supremacy only, logically, the people who bought the game for supremacy will get more out of their money than deathmatch/treaty players will.

Is that right?

something about ottomans never winning against dutch in 40min treaty

Dutch "counter" otto in Supremacy too. It's all genetic. Treaty doesnt give or take away units, doesnt change gathering rates, the only thing it does is add time of no combat to give players a chance to set their economy, and, sometimes (40-50min), military (upgrades).


[FeaR]{KingSteve3721}
“I love my name of honor, more than I fear death.”- Julius Caesar
"The Pope! How many divisions has he got?"- Joseph Stalin
"The hand that gives is above the hand that takes. Money has no motherland; financiers are without patriotism and without decency; their sole object is gain."- Napoleon Bonaparte
"Dogs, would you live forever?"- Frederick the Great (addressing retreating Prussians at the Battle of Kolin)

[This message has been edited by KingSteve3721 (edited 05-04-2007 @ 03:22 PM).]

Aowpr the Great
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 03:59 PM EDT (US)     17 / 34       
I only play Treaty (usually 40, sometimes 30). My opinion? France is an OP civ. 80 settlers leaves you with 120 pop. It used to be that all this allowed for was 40 cuirassiers. Now, you have more options (don't recommend starting with #5, as it takes a lot of micromanagement to pull off):

#1. 60 cuirassiers (don't do this, unless you're playing noobs/have worn your opponents down).

#2. 50 cuirassiers + 20 skirmishers.

#3. 45 cuirassiers + 30 skirmishers (highly recommended).

#4. 40 cuirassiers + 20 skirmishers + 5 mortars (highly recommended).

#5. 20 cuirassiers (meatshield) + 30 dragoons + 5 falconets (my captain friend says colonels use this, i.e. highly recommended).

By the way, I recommend Russia for Treaty (musketeers can build forts if you send a Level 40 card).

Just in case you're wondering, every civilization gets OP Level 40 cards. (But 2 pop cuirassiers and fort-building musketeers are the best!)

Am I to understand I should be using some sort of additional unit with my horses? I tried the voltigeurs and was not very impressed (I didn't get them all the way to the Imperial Age upgrade though).

Is it really worth it add an additional unit (ie, volts) instead of a few more of those horses? Like I said, I'd love to diversify my army, but the Volts didn't seem to do much, and by the time they got up to a fight, my horses had taken care of the enemy...

Once you play someone who trains Ranged cavalry (aka Light cavalry in the expansion), you'll be glad you have skirmishers.


Noli nothis permiterre te terrere.
Don't let the bastards wear you down.

[This message has been edited by Aowpr the Great (edited 05-04-2007 @ 04:02 PM).]

aoeplayer078
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 04:31 PM EDT (US)     18 / 34       
What do you do with EIGHTY settlers? At my max humming economy, I have about 45 settlers. 20 on two farms, 20 on two plantations, and five for various tasks like wood cutting, etc. - and two factories humming out wood (change if run low on gold, etc.). With this going, I find my resources slowly surplus up...

What in the heck do you do with 80 people/!??!!?!?!

L_Clan_Socrates
VIP
posted 05-04-07 04:57 PM EDT (US)     19 / 34       
age games are, at the core, supremacy. and should be balanced as such.

[img]http://www.aoe3-arena.com/sign2/WaCkO,3,0.png[/img]
Aowpr the Great
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 06:18 PM EDT (US)     20 / 34       
What do you do with EIGHTY settlers? At my max humming economy, I have about 45 settlers. 20 on two farms, 20 on two plantations, and five for various tasks like wood cutting, etc. - and two factories humming out wood (change if run low on gold, etc.). With this going, I find my resources slowly surplus up...

What in the heck do you do with 80 people/!??!!?!?!

I don't blame you. For months, I maxed out at 25 settlers (8 food, 8 coin, 8 wood, and here's the funny part: 1 for resource crates from the Home City! Also, a normal game would take me... 2 HOURS to finish). Now imagine 30 food, 30 coin, 10 wood, and 10 building/gathering whatever resource you happen to need more of... Heaven... Age of Empires Heaven, that is. Resources pour in, and you can make wave after wave of soldiers. When you start playing online, add me to your friends list (my online name is AndonicO, with an o, not a 0), and we'll play (on the same team of course). Then you can see for sure how incredibly important it is to have the biggest possible economy.


Noli nothis permiterre te terrere.
Don't let the bastards wear you down.

[This message has been edited by Aowpr the Great (edited 05-04-2007 @ 06:19 PM).]

CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 07:08 PM EDT (US)     21 / 34       
I might be wrong, but aren't 80 Coureurs equivalent to 96 settlers? 80x1.2=96, not 120. In total, Germany would have the best pop limit on civilians.
Sporting_Lisbon
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 07:30 PM EDT (US)     22 / 34       
not 1.2 but 1.25 vills
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-04-07 07:42 PM EDT (US)     23 / 34       
TBH For a long time I never went passed 60-70 vills with Russia. Gave me an extra 15-20 Opri's to spaminate :P

Now I always max out to 99 tho, better micro has allowed me to do as much damage as the 70 opris did with only 50.

Also never maxed out with France either, only went up to about 45, 20 food 20 coin 5 choppin. Guess it's just the mindset of a noob to have a big army and small eco :P


Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-04-2007 @ 07:43 PM).]

SahintheFalcon
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 07:58 PM EDT (US)     24 / 34       
As Ottoman I used to never go past 71 settlers. But I eventually learned that 100 is best!

ESO Nickname: Eisenhower
Favorite Age 3 character: Sahin the Falcon
Unban James Lock!
Eicho
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-07 08:01 PM EDT (US)     25 / 34       
Look it like this:

With a inferior eco (less villagers) you have an advantage ONLY AT FIRST WAVE.
so your first wave will be incredibly powerful.

Here at the problems:

- you cant micro 150 soliders, and with the lag taht huge battles causes, you micro will be awful.

- your enemy will just replace and replace his amry wiht his superior eco.

- when your first waves are killed, oyu cant replace fr a lot of time, but your enemy can, it will be just a matter of time (little time, like 10-15 mins)before yuor enemy superior eco and constantly repleced troops will own you.


Conclusion:

ALWAYS max out villagers, with all upgrades and with factories and most economic cards oyu can send.
with that ub33r eco, you will just win by constantly repleacin troops.
so your constantly 100 pop army will beat his temporaly 150 pop army.

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