You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.15 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Native Age Up
Bottom
Topic Subject:Native Age Up
SupremeOverlord
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 10:26 AM EDT (US)         
Have you noticed how weak the native age up polatitians are? (excluding the OP iros) Compared to euro civs, the only advantage they really get is the messenger in age 1. They have 5 age up choices in a game (to imp.age) to 16(if you include revolting) for a euro. Here they are (ignoring the OP iros)-

Aztec

Wise Woman
Colonial Age: +10% gather rate for plantations and farms
Fortress Age: +20% gather rate for plantations and farms
Industrial Age: +30% gather rate for plantations and farms
Imperial Age: +40% gather rate for plantations and farms

War Leader
Colonial Age: 1 Skull Knight
Fortress Age: 3 Skull Knights
Industrial Age: 4 Skull Knights
Imperial Age: 8 Skull Knights

Shaman
Colonial Age: +10% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units
Fortress Age: +20% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units
Industrial Age: +30% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units
Imperial Age: +40% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units

Messenger
All Ages: Ages up much faster

Chief
Colonial Age: Gives War Chief a special swing attack
Fortress Age: Gives War Chief a special swing attack (stronger)
Industrial Age: Gives War Chief a special swing attack (stronger)
Imperial Age: Gives War Chief a special swing attack (stronger)


Sioux

Wise Woman
Colonial Age: 6 Bison, +10% hunting gather rate
Fortress Age: 12 Bison, +20% hunting gather rate
Industrial Age: 20 Bison, +30% hunting gather rate
Imperial Age: 30 Bison, +40% hunting gather rate

War Leader
Colonial Age: 1 Axe Rider
Fortress Age: 4 Axe Riders
Industrial Age: 8 Axe Riders
Imperial Age: 10 Axe Riders

Shaman
Colonial Age: 500 Food
Fortress Age: 1000 Food
Industrial Age: 1500 Food
Imperial Age: 2400 Food

Messenger
All Ages: Ages up much faster

Chief
Colonial Age: 400 Wood
Fortress Age: 800 Wood
Industrial Age: 1200 Wood
Imperial Age: 2000 Wood

Lets take a look at Aztecs-
They get 1 skull knight in age 2. thats 250 resources! Compare that to the 500 food or 200 coin and a outpost(250 wood). Then you still get less, with 750 res. in 3, 1000 res. in age 4, and 2000 in age 5(this one is fine).
You wont use farms to age 3 anyway, so no using the wise woman until then, and agarian ways is better than that.
I dont think the shaman works! Every time i use it, my units do the same damage with or without it. If someone has proof it works, please tell me.
The messenger is good in age 1, but gets worse every age. they should get something along with it! maybe 200 wood, then 400, ect. because the aztec have a major thirst for wood in age 2 & 3.
A warchief attack? your kidding me! most civs get this with a card, but that smoking mirror gives an AoE attack instead. and no matter what age you age up with, you still get the same attack, as it improves as your WC improves anyway!

The Sioux-
Well actually, i believe the Wise Woman is fine the way it is.
The War leader is the same as the aztec one. But now, your only getting 200 res. per unit. So thats 200 in age 2! An age 1 card beats that!!!! you get 600 in age 3 and 800 in age 4 and 1600 in age 5. does anybody else see the difference in resources?
The shaman is good and all... but with the Wise Woman and the numerous buffalo cards, how much will you be using this?
The messenger- see aztec. but instead of wood, perhaps a boost to units, similar to the aztec shaman (if it worked)
the chief isnt useful after age 2, because sioux don't need houses, their units arent wood-heavy, and they normally dont get to late game anyway. You cant use the wood to build walls!

So, what do you think? am i over-exaggerating, because i think this is a problem.

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

Bill Gates' empire's downfall shall be caused by a fruit!

If you are a Christian and not ashamed of it, copy this into your sig.
AuthorReplies:
Widget
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 10:54 AM EDT (US)     1 / 15       
The Shaman for Aztec dosnt improve units it improves the Nobles Hut attack and hitpoints .

~#~#~ ESO: bacon~#~#~

Favorite Civs: China, Germans, Aztec

PR Rank: Master Sergeant.
CookieCrisp13
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 11:00 AM EDT (US)     2 / 15       
It's not the deal that makes the native's age up so awesome, its the fact that you can Choose when you can use the age up politician. and the wood guy for sioux lategame? helps with upgrades. you can never have enough wood. trust me.

Proud winner of the FFA Winter Round '07!
[Judgε][Epic Thread]
My Vods:[One] [Two][Three][Four]
"with all the bling on a mandsabar you could win the game by paying the enemy to resign." IL
SupremeOverlord
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 11:01 AM EDT (US)     3 / 15       
That explains a lot, but it is still useless. I doubt a 20% increase will turn the tide of a game.

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

Bill Gates' empire's downfall shall be caused by a fruit!

If you are a Christian and not ashamed of it, copy this into your sig.
Flying Bishop
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 11:20 AM EDT (US)     4 / 15       
I'll take a 10% gather bonus over 500 VS any day.

The convoluted wording of legalisms grew up around the necessity to hide from ourselves the violence we intend toward each other. Between depriving a man of one hour from his life and depriving him of his life there exists only a difference of degree. You have done violence to him, consumed his energy. Elaborate euphemisms may conceal your intent to kill, but behind any use of power over another the ultimate assumption remains: "I feed on your energy."
-Frank Herbert, Dune
SupremeOverlord
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 11:40 AM EDT (US)     5 / 15       
-----------------------------------------------------
and the wood guy for sioux lategame? helps with upgrades. you can never have enough wood. trust me.
-----------------------------------------------------

How many times do sioux get to lategame anyway? When they do, they are very weak, because they only have Wakina and Dog Soldiers that can really compete with other lategame soldiers. You arent playing to Sioux's strengths of 200 free pop by going lategame.

The object of war is not to die for your country but to make the other bastard die for his. -George Patton

Bill Gates' empire's downfall shall be caused by a fruit!

If you are a Christian and not ashamed of it, copy this into your sig.
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 11:49 AM EDT (US)     6 / 15       
Correct me if i am mistaken, but didnt you start this topic about POLITICIANS? So can we just keep it on the balance of politicians...

Lets look at aztec, havent played them in a while, but:
The messenger politician in age1 is without doubt good.
3 skull knights to fortress, 750 resources isnt worse then what euros get.
Then to industrial +30% gather rate for BOTH plantations and farms. Not a single upgrade card from hc comes even close to that. (dont start about agrarian ways, that is something else). And i would take it any day over the 1000 gold that a euro civ can get.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

ganggreene51
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 12:25 PM EDT (US)     7 / 15       
Although I would love to see a boost to the Aztec politicians, with the changes that are coming in 1.04, I do not think any boosts are necessary here. I believe Aztec will be competitive (although forced to rush and fight colonial) and Sioux will need nothing more except possibly a nerf. I don't believe having to deal with the worse aspects of a civ is a major issue if it is made up somewhere else. I think we have to ask ourselves , "Yes, this is worse than the other civs but am I losing because of this?" "Do I not have advantages over the other civs where they are weak?" Without new politicians both civs are competitive and able to win.

However it would be nice to get a 1000 cord of wood with the messenger for aztecs. Just a suggestion to benefit me.

You don't like your job, you don't strike. You go in every day and do it really half-assed. That's the American way.


Foy Lyndstrom- "Villagers doing nothing don't do anything."
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:03 PM EDT (US)     8 / 15       
They have different upgrades compared to Euro civs, I don't think that means they are worse or inferior. Ever faced an Aztec who's gone to age3/4/5 with all wise woman upgrades + 1 and 2 chinampas and all eco upgrades? :-\ Not fun.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
AceOfKings
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:04 PM EDT (US)     9 / 15       
Sioux are great, aztec's sucks.

ESO= AceOfKings
Current: AOE3 TAD
DominatorGREP
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:10 PM EDT (US)     10 / 15       
Shaman
Colonial Age: +10% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units
Fortress Age: +20% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units
Industrial Age: +30% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units
Imperial Age: +40% HP and Attack for Noble Hut units
It increases Warhut and Noblehut HP and Attack, not their units. If it did then it would be the most OP politician ever.

From Agecommunity:
"French:
Pros: Powerful coureurs, many choices for a powerful army, a card gives the explorer the ability to heal
Cons: Expensive vills and Cuirassiers."
LOL
Cyclohexane
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 06:37 PM EDT (US)     11 / 15       
A warchief attack? your kidding me! most civs get this with a card, but that smoking mirror gives an AoE attack instead. and no matter what age you age up with, you still get the same attack, as it improves as your WC improves anyway!
Depending on the age you research it, the area of effect and damage increases. If you wait until Imperial to research this politician, your explorer will be doing 525 damage with an area of 4! This likely will never happen and depending on 1 unit is impossible late game but interesting. Either one of my guides in my signature show the damage details for this Aztec ability in each age.

I do agree that a few of the Aztecs politicians are sub-par but so are the British's.

Lead, Follow, or Get the Hell out of the way!................CYCLOHEXANE'S FREE GUIDES:

-TAD GUIDE: AOE3 TWC TAD Quick Reference -or view online: On-line
AOE3 TWC TAD UNIT COMPARISON SPREADSHEET: Unit Comparison Spreadsheet

See other guides, technological advancements, interviewing tips, and more at my website All Things Miscellaneous
Sporting_Lisbon
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 06:50 PM EDT (US)     12 / 15       
Lol what's wrong with sioux's politicians?

FFA Fun Series - Spring/Summer 07 winner
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 07:59 PM EDT (US)     13 / 15       
^Exactly.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
Ferdinand Gwonch
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 08:33 PM EDT (US)     14 / 15       
i always research ages, as aztecs, in these sequences:

chief - wise woman - shaman - war leader
or
chief - shaman - wise woman - war leader

OWN GOAL

[This message has been edited by Ferdinand Gwonch (edited 08-22-2007 @ 08:59 PM).]

NATron
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 10:19 PM EDT (US)     15 / 15       
Wise Woman
Colonial Age: +10% gather rate for plantations and farms
Fortress Age: +20% gather rate for plantations and farms
Industrial Age: +30% gather rate for plantations and farms
Imperial Age: +40% gather rate for plantations and farms
It's actually this:

Wise Woman
Colonial Age: +10% gather rate for plantations and farms
Fortress Age: +15% gather rate for plantations and farms
Industrial Age: +20% gather rate for plantations and farms
Imperial Age: +25% gather rate for plantations and farms

★ ★ ★ ★ ★

I heard distant forests all the time - CunniJA
I found my Jabra!
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames