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Topic Subject:4 Comments
Hockeystar
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 11:59 AM EDT (US)         
1. Why do uhlans have 6.5 speed while all other light hand cav have 6.8 speed. I can understand Mameluke, Elmeti, cruissaders, lancers, and WW's getting < 6.5 speed, but why uhlans?

2. Why doesn't cheyenne recieve the general cav boost of +10% RR in 1.04?

3. Why is Apache Cavalry the only ranged cav unit not to have a bonus vs Artillery? They are exactly the same stats as dragoons minus the cannon bonus.

4. Why didn't commranche Horse Archer recieve a boost? Cav Archers got x3 bonus vs cav, and bow riders got -25 gold. For almost the same price as a cav archer, the commranche Horse Archer has 65 less HP, 20% less hand resist, 25% less of a bonus vs cav(In 1.04).
AuthorReplies:
Linuchadnezzar
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 12:15 PM EDT (US)     1 / 13       
cruissaders
?
2. Why doesn't cheyenne recieve the general cav boost of +10% RR in 1.04?

3. Why is Apache Cavalry the only ranged cav unit not to have a bonus vs Artillery? They are exactly the same stats as dragoons minus the cannon bonus.

4. Why didn't commranche Horse Archer recieve a boost? Cav Archers got x3 bonus vs cav, and bow riders got -25 gold. For almost the same price as a cav archer, the commranche Horse Archer has 65 less HP, 20% less hand resist, 25% less of a bonus vs cav(In 1.04).
I don't know, and I don't care. Perhaps ES thought: Shit to the stupid ranged horse natives. And I don't care if they haven't got this or that because it's still balanced. Every civ can get them, so I don't see why this is important.

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[This message has been edited by Linuchadnezzar (edited 08-22-2007 @ 04:31 PM).]

scriv1984
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 12:49 PM EDT (US)     2 / 13       
A shit too the stupid ranged horse natives
?

............If ur gonna pick on somebody's grammar, make sure you're correct yourself, but preferably don't do it at all.


Hockeystar, as for your questions, i'm not sure about 2,3,4.
I agree with you in being confused about the uhlan speed, but they have better damage than other hand cav, so it's well known that ES have nerfed their hitpoints as compensation. Perhaps the speed is just another stat nerf done on them to keep them balanced?

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[This message has been edited by scriv1984 (edited 08-22-2007 @ 12:50 PM).]

Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:00 PM EDT (US)     3 / 13       
1. Why do uhlans have 6.5 speed while all other light hand cav have 6.8 speed. I can understand Mameluke, Elmeti, cruissaders, lancers, and WW's getting < 6.5 speed, but why uhlans?
Good question, maybe it has something to do with them being so cheap and free for Germany?
2. Why doesn't cheyenne recieve the general cav boost of +10% RR in 1.04?
Are Cheyenne considered "light" or "heavy" melee cav?
3. Why is Apache Cavalry the only ranged cav unit not to have a bonus vs Artillery? They are exactly the same stats as dragoons minus the cannon bonus.
Plus the ability to have a strong bonus vs villagers
4. Why didn't commranche Horse Archer recieve a boost? Cav Archers got x3 bonus vs cav, and bow riders got -25 gold. For almost the same price as a cav archer, the commranche Horse Archer has 65 less HP, 20% less hand resist, 25% less of a bonus vs cav(In 1.04).
Good question, agreed.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
agape3
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:09 PM EDT (US)     4 / 13       
They probably just forgot cheyenne. I'm still fairly pleased with the way this unit is now though, especially with that beastly cav multiplier it can get. Also, read below.

I agree comanche should recieve a significant boost. If you notice, though, ES is always afraid of native strategies being too powerful. Nerf to native american treaties, nerf to mayan spearmen, even a nerf to melee natives (such as nootkas) in the expansion.

As for apaches, I've never been fond of the ranged cav bonus agaisnt cannons, so this is fine by me, but you're right, baffling.

As for uhlans, phew these guys are OP already. It takes AT LEAST 5 strelets to take them down, with a speed boost it might take 8. Good move.
Hockeystar
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 01:59 PM EDT (US)     5 / 13       
This is the description of hussar:

Unit Type: HandCavalry, HeavyCavalry, Cavalry

This is the description of cheyenne:

Cavalry, NativeWarrior, HeavyCavalry, HandCavalry

Cheyenne is the same unit type as hussars; they should get the boost.
LordPatrick18
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 02:21 PM EDT (US)     6 / 13       
I do agree with you on the Comanche front, as this is probably the only native that I audibly groan at upon discovering, as I find that it is not worth the hassle for 10 Horse Archers that even as Russian I can do better. Comanche should get the boost.

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As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 08-22-07 03:33 PM EDT (US)     7 / 13       
I guess they thought that since on an average 2v2 Great Plains map, there are 3 Cheyenne but 4 Comanche TP on the map, it's possible for one person to pimp the comanche and get up to 40 zero-pop Horse Archers. This is still a crappy reason to nerf or neglect native ranged cav since realistically you get a crack at maybe 2 TP at most.

Something fishy is going on with the native cav, that's for sure. If you play ottos, having decent ranged native cav with a bonus vs. artillery is a must, now that abus are crap.

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Ferdinand Gwonch
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 03:46 PM EDT (US)     8 / 13       
aztec ERKs don't have bonus vs. artillery too, even being equivalent to ranged cavalry

they have to rely on arrow knights and the non-tough coyote runners, which fall easily to a falconet

in compensation, Coyote Combat card makes coyote runners be faster than an uhlan

OWN GOAL

[This message has been edited by Ferdinand Gwonch (edited 08-22-2007 @ 03:47 PM).]

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 08-22-07 03:49 PM EDT (US)     9 / 13       
Those natives unit do need a lot of boost. Not only most of them have been ignored through the patches, some have even been nerfed - besides the Nat. Treaties nerfed. Hopefully TAD natives are going to be more... effective.

And Comanches have to be the worst unit I've ever seem. They are like an expensive, yet weaker Cavalry Archer. Though they might be getting 3x against Cavalry as well, as it should have been applied to all mounted archer units.

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CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 05:14 PM EDT (US)     10 / 13       
Awwwww.... ERK's can't take out cannon..... damn it.

I guess they will just have to rely on completely pwning any other unit type than artillery.
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 06:32 PM EDT (US)     11 / 13       
I guess they will just have to rely on completely pwning any other unit type than artillery.
Haha, exactly.

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Cyclohexane
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 06:48 PM EDT (US)     12 / 13       
It disappoints me the role minor natives have in a game called "The War Chiefs". I would love to see the spy multiplier reduced even further (say x3 instead of x4), boosts to minor natives to make them comparable to their European counter parts, and bring back the minor native rush!

It is a strategy that your rarely see because it is so easily countered by all Europeans. At least remove the stupid arrow that shows up once your opponent builds on a Native TP. It is so easy to predict this strategy (not only the deck but the dead give away arrow by your name in beginning of game). Easy to predict with a hard counter means worthless strategy.

Their role now is to use their technologies and add a little population space late game. Not worthless, but much less useful in a rush.

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IRP_m0f0
Skirmisher
posted 08-22-07 11:14 PM EDT (US)     13 / 13       
yeah the only ones i remember to try to build are cree...5 cdb and the high hp trackers and incas for roadbuilding tech but which has replace lakota with the origional ar and ds cuz i always mess up and build the opposite when i try to guess
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