After reading these forums a bit (wow you guys have collected A LOT of info, kudos!), I've changed my mind completely. I'll be playing China.
Now, considering my distaste for Russia (the civ in AoE3, not my native country!), you must be incredulous. But despite what the TAD designers are telling you, theyaren't Russia.
Here's why:
1. Higher Pop space. The Chinese will not run into the pop-inefficiency wall.
2. Food/gold based armies with good units in them, so no reliance on wood.
3. Chu-Ko-Nu. Not only did I love this little unique Crossbow in Diablo 2, but once I saw these units in action in the HD gameplay movie, and read the games convention description, I realized this is going to be one of the best Colonial light infantry units. Look at the stats on this thing, it's cheap as hell, but the damage it outputs is remarkable. We can see multiple arrows (it's a repeating Crossbow, duh!). The people from the convention say it fires multiple arrows.
So if it fires even THREE per firing sequence, that's 15 damage x 2 against heavy infantry. That is the damage of a Dutch Skirmisher or a Cetan Bowbut with no aiming animation. Think Eagle Knight, only in Colonial, and for half the price.
Now, 30 damage vs HI in Colonial is great even if a CKN has a 3.0 rate of fire. But imagine if it has a 1.5s rate of fire without aiming animation delays? Oh mama!
I saw the "Sepoy too powerful?" thread. Not when they'll be facing swarms of these babies.
4. Changdao swordsman. If these things are available in Colonial ... beware. Compare this thing to a Rodelero from the last patch (where they repeatedly owned light infantry, especially the archer types). Rodelero vs Changdao vs War Club (that are apparently owning LI now too, I wouldn't know, not having yet touched 1.04 on my new account):
12 attack vs 15 attack vs 10 attack
135 HP vs 144 HP vs 120 HP
40% hand resist vs 20% hand resist vs 20% hand resist
Changdao seems to be 5 speed (based on the movie) like the Clubs.
Now, Changdao's one weakness is much lower damage against cavalry (only 30), the same as that of Russian Muskets and Janissaries. But that's fine, because it'sdirt cheap. And it won't be used against cavalry, heh. It'll be used against INFANTRY. The same as Clubs and Rodeleros and Janey/Coyote pets and speedy Dutch Halberds have been.
Remember how much of a problem Crossbows/Muskets + Rodeleros were in the previous patches? Well this is one step further in combat effectiveness (because Changdao have higher attack and HP while costing less, and CKN counter HI way better than Crossbows), and two steps ahead in cost-effectiveness due to their low price and:
5. Common production center for all units (aside from Flying Crow, which comes from something not unlike a factory, apparently). No stable and barracks here. All units come from the War Academy.
6. Hand Mortar! For such a low price, you get a 34 ranged Siege unit that allows you to break turtles very nicely. I can't express how much this interests me after having played Sioux and their "max 6 range" siege. Often in this game (especially after TWC), youneed long range siege. And this is it for sure.
7. An unmounted explorer (Monk) that is nontheless really fast (probably speed 5 or 5.5, seeing as the game convention people noticed a him being significantly faster) andwith a healer. Do you know how much treasure I get in Discovery if the first treasure I get is a Surgeon or Medicine Man? A metric ****ton, that's how much.
And this guy will be able to run down European explorers too, being faster.
8. Age up wonder - Porcelain Tower. "Generates the player's choice of food, wood, coin, or a small trickle of all resources, including experience and export points." Uh, talk about the perfect Colonial rushing age up "politician"? Set it to the universal trickle, and you get a better economy, faster shipments and faster export generation. Yes please I'd like that.
9. Age up wonder - Summer Palace. "Autospawns the player's choice of Banner Armies". Another Colonial alternative, less for rushing but more for prolonged conflicts.
10 Age up wonder - Confucian Academy. "Autospawns Flying Crow Artillery Unit". Seems to me like the perfect Fortress "politician" (if available for that age, which I'm hoping it is, seeing as the Chinese were early adopters of gunpowder).
Now if only I knew the stats for the Flying Crow.
And this is all before getting into the other cool units like Meteor Hammer or the Iron Flail, the mechanics of which I'm dying to see.
So there you go. No India for me, they seem like Ottomans with an economy in Colonial, and those Elephants, are going to take ages to acquire. India will be hard pressed to survive to the stage where they can get decent numbers of them. And those of you planning to hide behind Agra Forts or that peace wonder, while getting out your elephans ... well, they don't last forever.
And Japan seems deeply flawed to me. Those Samurai, even if they are speed 5.5 or 6.0, are going to get mowed down by hit and run capable units, or high damage LI with a meatshield. And their Lancer-like units don't seem to measure up either. Lastly, their Musket unit is overpriced for its capability.
I have this sneaking suspicion that BHG isn't aware of the hand cavalry problems in AoE, and aren't making the new hand cavalry units strong enough (and making the elephants prohibitively expensive). They also don't seem to understand what makes Dopplesoldners so useless, and are modeling the Samurai on the same flawed principles (speaking of which, at which point did Dopple/Volt take over the Age Sanctuary forums?).
Now, perhaps all this will change if the stats we saw in the videos and at the convention aren't final, so my opinion might change again.
"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Now, considering my distaste for Russia (the civ in AoE3, not my native country!), you must be incredulous. But despite what the TAD designers are telling you, they
Here's why:
1. Higher Pop space. The Chinese will not run into the pop-inefficiency wall.
2. Food/gold based armies with good units in them, so no reliance on wood.
3. Chu-Ko-Nu. Not only did I love this little unique Crossbow in Diablo 2, but once I saw these units in action in the HD gameplay movie, and read the games convention description, I realized this is going to be one of the best Colonial light infantry units. Look at the stats on this thing, it's cheap as hell, but the damage it outputs is remarkable. We can see multiple arrows (it's a repeating Crossbow, duh!). The people from the convention say it fires multiple arrows.
So if it fires even THREE per firing sequence, that's 15 damage x 2 against heavy infantry. That is the damage of a Dutch Skirmisher or a Cetan Bow
Now, 30 damage vs HI in Colonial is great even if a CKN has a 3.0 rate of fire. But imagine if it has a 1.5s rate of fire without aiming animation delays? Oh mama!
I saw the "Sepoy too powerful?" thread. Not when they'll be facing swarms of these babies.
4. Changdao swordsman. If these things are available in Colonial ... beware. Compare this thing to a Rodelero from the last patch (where they repeatedly owned light infantry, especially the archer types). Rodelero vs Changdao vs War Club (that are apparently owning LI now too, I wouldn't know, not having yet touched 1.04 on my new account):
12 attack vs 15 attack vs 10 attack
135 HP vs 144 HP vs 120 HP
40% hand resist vs 20% hand resist vs 20% hand resist
Changdao seems to be 5 speed (based on the movie) like the Clubs.
Now, Changdao's one weakness is much lower damage against cavalry (only 30), the same as that of Russian Muskets and Janissaries. But that's fine, because it's
Remember how much of a problem Crossbows/Muskets + Rodeleros were in the previous patches? Well this is one step further in combat effectiveness (because Changdao have higher attack and HP while costing less, and CKN counter HI way better than Crossbows), and two steps ahead in cost-effectiveness due to their low price and:
5. Common production center for all units (aside from Flying Crow, which comes from something not unlike a factory, apparently). No stable and barracks here. All units come from the War Academy.
6. Hand Mortar! For such a low price, you get a 34 ranged Siege unit that allows you to break turtles very nicely. I can't express how much this interests me after having played Sioux and their "max 6 range" siege. Often in this game (especially after TWC), you
7. An unmounted explorer (Monk) that is nontheless really fast (probably speed 5 or 5.5, seeing as the game convention people noticed a him being significantly faster) and
And this guy will be able to run down European explorers too, being faster.
8. Age up wonder - Porcelain Tower. "Generates the player's choice of food, wood, coin, or a small trickle of all resources, including experience and export points." Uh, talk about the perfect Colonial rushing age up "politician"? Set it to the universal trickle, and you get a better economy, faster shipments and faster export generation. Yes please I'd like that.
9. Age up wonder - Summer Palace. "Autospawns the player's choice of Banner Armies". Another Colonial alternative, less for rushing but more for prolonged conflicts.
10 Age up wonder - Confucian Academy. "Autospawns Flying Crow Artillery Unit". Seems to me like the perfect Fortress "politician" (if available for that age, which I'm hoping it is, seeing as the Chinese were early adopters of gunpowder).
Now if only I knew the stats for the Flying Crow.
And this is all before getting into the other cool units like Meteor Hammer or the Iron Flail, the mechanics of which I'm dying to see.
So there you go. No India for me, they seem like Ottomans with an economy in Colonial, and those Elephants, are going to take ages to acquire. India will be hard pressed to survive to the stage where they can get decent numbers of them. And those of you planning to hide behind Agra Forts or that peace wonder, while getting out your elephans ... well, they don't last forever.
And Japan seems deeply flawed to me. Those Samurai, even if they are speed 5.5 or 6.0, are going to get mowed down by hit and run capable units, or high damage LI with a meatshield. And their Lancer-like units don't seem to measure up either. Lastly, their Musket unit is overpriced for its capability.
I have this sneaking suspicion that BHG isn't aware of the hand cavalry problems in AoE, and aren't making the new hand cavalry units strong enough (and making the elephants prohibitively expensive). They also don't seem to understand what makes Dopplesoldners so useless, and are modeling the Samurai on the same flawed principles (speaking of which, at which point did Dopple/Volt take over the Age Sanctuary forums?).
Now, perhaps all this will change if the stats we saw in the videos and at the convention aren't final, so my opinion might change again.
"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
[This message has been edited by Ender_Ward (edited 09-12-2007 @ 05:02 PM).]