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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Biggest gripe about India...
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Topic Subject:Biggest gripe about India...
Slomo
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 02:51 AM EDT (US)         
you need at least 7 villagers on wood to keep consistent villager production. 6 wont do because after about the 11th villager, you fall behind... even with 7 villagers on wood I have wait from time to time to que up villagers.

To those who compare India to Dutch, I can sustain constant ville production with 4 on gold as Dutch and send my other 3 original villagers straight to food and never fall behind que...

I guess I move on to China and see if there is any promise there as India is useless in 1v1 against anyone smart enough to rush

Anyone else have any views?

Woodcutting rate at 0.575 is a drag(since you only get 2 of the woodcutting upgrades, Asian woodcutting upgrades that barely improve anything at all). Gold is still faster at 0.60

[This message has been edited by Slomo (edited 10-28-2007 @ 07:28 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
TheRomans
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 09:01 AM EDT (US)     1 / 25       
Just wait until you can get the first trickle card. That is a 3.5 villager shipment.

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Unthinking_Pain
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 09:29 AM EDT (US)     2 / 25       
The first trickle card is Age 1 and is 1.3 wood/sec, about a 2 villager (+1 "bonus") card (considering India gets wood-cutting upgrades free.)
Ossian
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 10:00 AM EDT (US)     3 / 25       
The Wood trickle is 2.3 wood a second fyi but sadly it's age 2, +1 vills so it's about worth a 4-5 vill shipment.

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[This message has been edited by Ossian (edited 10-25-2007 @ 10:02 AM).]

Cyclohexane
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 12:30 PM EDT (US)     4 / 25       
The first trickle card is Age 1 and is 1.3 wood/sec, about a 2 villager (+1 "bonus") card (considering India gets wood-cutting upgrades free.)
Do they get them for free? I thought they were just not enabled. If they got them for free, it should work in the same manner agrarian ways works (build a market and click to receive). If you build a market, nothing is even there.

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N_E_Patriots
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 02:46 PM EDT (US)     5 / 25       
I send the wood cutting card first, but should i send trickle instead? And i think they just start the game with the wood cutting upgrades. Thank god. Remember dutch had this problem? it took them 7 or 8 villes for constant ville production.

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Unthinking_Pain
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 02:55 PM EDT (US)     6 / 25       
Market upgrades are completely free except it's not clear to me if you need the market built to have the upgrades go into effect.
The Wood trickle is 2.3 wood a second fyi but sadly it's age 2, +1 vills so it's about worth a 4-5 vill shipment.
There are 2 wood trickle cards, 1 Age 1 (1.25 wood/sec) and 1 Age2 (2.35 wood/sec).
I send the wood cutting card first, but should i send trickle instead?
1st shipment trickle = 1.25 trickle = 2 villagers on wood (including the automatic wood cutting upgrades). Wood cutting upgrade = 20%.... which is really about 16% upgrade considering villagers are already upgrade by free market upgrades. For wood cutting upgrade to be as good as 1.25 trickle, you need 12.5 villagers chopping wood.

So, wood trickle is somewhat better short term investment, and wood cutting upgrade is better long term investment (since you'll probably have more than 12.5 villagers cutting wood as the game goes on.) Of course, wood trickle isn't raidable. IMO, I'd go Trickle over wood cutting upgrades.

[This message has been edited by Unthinking_Pain (edited 10-25-2007 @ 02:56 PM).]

N_E_Patriots
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 04:45 PM EDT (US)     7 / 25       
Cool thanks , this will help me a lot.

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Xaelhi
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 06:17 PM EDT (US)     8 / 25       
You don't need to build the market to get the upgrades. Also, their trees last 25% longer.
Slomo
Skirmisher
posted 10-25-07 06:30 PM EDT (US)     9 / 25       
Yes these are all great options, none of which are available at lvl 14 currently and none of them help maintain villy production before you can actually get your first card which usually shows up around the time of the 10-11 villager.

Either way, 7 villagers on wood to maintain villager production leads to very slow age times especially since your first 2 villagers produced also get sent to wood so you dont actually collect any food until at least 50seconds after the game begins...
PlasmaDogPlasma
Skirmisher
posted 10-26-07 01:35 PM EDT (US)     10 / 25       
It's great that they start with the first 2 upgrades, but they get the Asian upgrades which are only half as good as the old upgrades.

Instead of getting 'GangSaw' and 'LogFlume' which are 10% and 20%, the get 'ypMarketGangSaw' and 'ypMarketLogFlume' which are 5% and 10%.

The result is they start with a wood gather rate of 0.575 which is still lower than non-upgraded gold. A whopping 173.91 VS per villager built.
Killa4life
Skirmisher
posted 10-26-07 02:31 PM EDT (US)     11 / 25       
If I played India I'd go like this:

>2 vills go wood chopping, rest gatheres crates until you have 100w for your first vill, then only 1 keeps unpacking crates, the other two go to wood too

>all new vills go to food, the vill who unpacked the crates builds a house and goes wood chopping then himself

>keep making vills, send all to food. If youre sure you wont be able to keep up constant vill production (tho the starting wood etc shud help with that), move 1-2 more vills to wood

>send wood trickle first card, keep 4-5 vills on wood, all new vills etc go to food, age up and put roughly 4 vills on the wonder so you can age ~sub 5 mins. Use the agra fort if youre afraid of any rushes
Slomo
Skirmisher
posted 10-26-07 08:22 PM EDT (US)     12 / 25       
The result is they start with a wood gather rate of 0.575 which is still lower than non-upgraded gold. A whopping 173.91 VS per villager built.
Exactly, thats why you NEED 7 villagers to continue production without interruption until your first card comes in which is usually around the time the 12th villager pops out. So depending on the map(amount of resources ya start with), you will need your first 7 villagers directly on wood.

173.91 VS / 25 Sec = 6.9564 Villagers. Just for comparison: Dutch villagers gather gold at the rate of .69 which only requires 144.93 VS which equates to 5.797 Villagers. And to top it off, most maps usually have about 30-100 worth of gold treasures right around the TC which usually do not have guardians which you can utilize. So because of this, you can get away with 4 villagers on gold and get yourself to age 2 without any interruption in production.

Also Killa4Life, I have a similar build order except I keep 7 on wood till I receive my wood trickle shipment. The best age time I have gotten so far is 6:06... I can prob be faster but then I will have idle time at the TC...
AceOfKings
Skirmisher
posted 10-26-07 08:34 PM EDT (US)     13 / 25       
India is just a little slow.... i think in balance it is China>Japan>India

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dCyfer
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 11:52 AM EDT (US)     14 / 25       
I'm hitting Colonial around 5:15 with constant villager production by dropping 300F. With Disciple Rushing and such I think going much later than that is suicidal.

The only other option I've been toying with is putting all villagers on food after crates. You hit Colonial at 3:30 with 10ish villagers and 2 shipments ready. If you drop Agra, that's two Sepoys, the Sepoy shipment, the Rajput shipment, and the resources to build a couple of Sepoys at your fort. It's pretty all-or-nothing though.
PlasmaDogPlasma
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 12:54 PM EDT (US)     15 / 25       
Slomo, first 7 on wood is too much. You start with at least 300 wood, so it will be a while before you need 7 on wood. I don't have the trickle card yet and I usually have 3 on food by the time my 7th goes on wood. More on food first if I get some wood treasures. I can't say I've been getting great times, but at least they're under 6 minutes every time with no idle.
dCyfer
Skirmisher
posted 10-27-07 03:41 PM EDT (US)     16 / 25       
The problem is the 80W for your first house if you don't go full 7 on wood.
Slomo
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 04:36 AM EDT (US)     17 / 25       
I seem to fair a lot better with Japan or China. Arga Fort, although annoying, usually doesn't stop a rush... although it might delay it a little bit
Red Coat_monkey
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 07:19 AM EDT (US)     18 / 25       
so do houses cost 80 wood then? or is that with mugal archietechure? still 5 days till we get the game
Slomo
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 07:24 AM EDT (US)     19 / 25       
Houses do cost 80 wood, but as wood is still the SLOWEST resource you can collect even as India, trying to afford housing can be a real problem sometimes especially if you plan on using elephants.
Red Coat_monkey
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 07:44 AM EDT (US)     20 / 25       
o right thanks
yeah that a problem but india appeals to me the most
Malavir
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 06:38 PM EDT (US)     21 / 25       
Personally, I love how they cost wood.

I generally have 2 on food, the rest on wood, till I have 7ish on wood. I send 15% wood cutting. When I start to age, I move most of my villagers to food, except for enough to continue some vills till I age, I then send Raj, which means food villies. I age with Agra fort.

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TheRomans
Skirmisher
posted 10-28-07 11:29 PM EDT (US)     22 / 25       
My biggest gripe about India is playing against them on that map where you start out with a monastery. The Indian I played against sent Indian monk combat card and researched the tech for building tigers. My Xbows were completely overrun by Wagner the per White Tiger and Axehilt the pet Tiger. I thought disciples were lame.

+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+
Ender_Ward
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 00:34 AM EDT (US)     23 / 25       
Haha, and so the "Age of Pets" continues ...

"One wants to be loved, failing that admired, failing that feared, failing that hated and despised. One wants to instill in other people some form of emotion. The soul shudders before emptiness and wants contact, no matter the cost."
Slomo
Skirmisher
posted 10-29-07 01:34 PM EDT (US)     24 / 25       
lol yea, that church tech is cheap too... 75 food 75 gold

those tigers are bad ass especially if you can maintain all 20 on the battlefield, only prob is that they cannot kill villagers and don't have siege damage and villagers have bonus vs them... thats why deciples are usually better than the tigers :P

and yes Ender, "Age of Pets" is in full swing
chinavictory
Skirmisher
posted 10-30-07 09:07 AM EDT (US)     25 / 25       
hey you guys,
are you mathematicians or something?

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