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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » rockets or cannon?
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Topic Subject:rockets or cannon?
RCM7535
Skirmisher
posted 11-30-07 04:57 PM EDT (US)         
I've been wondering about whether to use rockets or heavy cannon, and here are my findings:

Speed? Rockets
HP? Hcannon
ROF? Rockets
Infantry attack? Hcannon
Seige? Rockets
Ship attack? Rockets
Train time? Rockets
Expense? Rockets are cheaper
Pop space? Rockets are 6, HCs are 7

So, IMHO, rockets are better. What are your thoughts?
AuthorReplies:
Starviper
Skirmisher
posted 11-30-07 06:11 PM EDT (US)     1 / 22       
Personally I love Heavy Cannon for general purpose and because the rocket takes longer to get to the target. HCannons also take less time to trigger (Rockets need to fuse up and launch). Population doesnt mean much to me as long as my enemy is losing...
Sporting_Lisbon
Skirmisher
posted 11-30-07 06:40 PM EDT (US)     2 / 22       
You can't just type some stats and say that rockets are better. You're forgetting that cannons and rockets main role is killing infantry, and hc are way more devastating than rockets. IMO hc>>rockets

FFA Fun Series - Spring/Summer 07 winner
RCM7535
Skirmisher
posted 11-30-07 07:02 PM EDT (US)     3 / 22       
I'm saying that one of my main purposes for artillery is seige, which rockets are better at
Lord_Jason
Skirmisher
posted 11-30-07 08:02 PM EDT (US)     4 / 22       
ROCKETS!!!!

"You only use Greandiers if someone has hacked your enemy so he cant make military units" - Eicho!!!!

You cant carry an air guitar and a gun at the same time....where there is air guitar there is peace!!

"Christians dont believe in gravity." Peter Griffin
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 12-01-07 04:22 AM EDT (US)     5 / 22       
IMO hc>>rockets
Rockets deal full damage in minimal range, cannons don't. Rockets > HC in that respect. Also due to the faster RoF of Rockets and the damage cap, they're essentially doing the same amount of damage per shot, but the rocket is shooting faster.

But really this discussion is silly since Hand Mortars >>>>>> Rockets and HC combined. :P

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Red xerxes
Skirmisher
posted 12-01-07 05:42 AM EDT (US)     6 / 22       
great bombard>>rockets and heavy cannon.[i think they got nerfed,not sure]
Ranger General
Skirmisher
posted 12-01-07 08:40 AM EDT (US)     7 / 22       
great bombard>>rockets and heavy cannon.[i think they got nerfed,not sure]
Ignorant as always. I am not suprised.
In fact rockets & heavy cannon>>>>>great bombard, b/c GB have a whooping 8 ROF and rkt/hc have 5/6 respecively.
If you ever bothered to check AOE3 1.08 patch, great bombard was nerfed with rockets and heavy cannon, so you second agrument is useless.
Stop spamming useless information, oh you red tyrant of Persia, Ignorance is your worst enemy.

Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 12-01-07 08:42 AM EDT (US)     8 / 22       
And you are forgetting that the first attack is the most important one.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

Sporting_Lisbon
Skirmisher
posted 12-01-07 09:58 AM EDT (US)     9 / 22       
+1

FFA Fun Series - Spring/Summer 07 winner
General_America
Skirmisher
posted 12-01-07 01:56 PM EDT (US)     10 / 22       
Um... the only rocket I know of is the british one, is there others or...?


< NOOB
Red xerxes
Skirmisher
posted 12-02-07 02:59 AM EDT (US)     11 / 22       
And u ranger gen forget gb does not need to fire many times to take out ur rockets ,whereas u do. and name me a artillery unit with near 500 hp,that 1 shots a falconet, has 500 sd and 1 shots a caravel.2 gbs 1 shot a frigate.u also need 4 culverins to take it out in 1 shot.they decimate fortifications and enemy artillery.the total package.
nidhog_slayer
Skirmisher
posted 12-02-07 03:04 AM EDT (US)     12 / 22       
Mediocre bombard. x)
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 12-02-07 03:31 AM EDT (US)     13 / 22       
Lets just Compare their everything at once then and put this to rest shall we?

HP: HCannon=Bombard>Rocket 475-475-350
Damage:Bombard>Rocket>HCannon 500-300-200
RoF: Rocket>HCannon>Bombard 5-6-8
Train speed: Rocket>HCannon=Bombard 98-115-115
Ship Damage: Rocket>Bombard>HCannon 900-750-600
Building Damage: Bombard>HCannon>Rocket 500-400-300
Movement Speed: Rocket>HCannon=Bombard 4-3.5-3.5
Population Cost: Rocket>HCannon=Bombard 6-7-7
and name me a artillery unit with near 500 hp,that 1 shots a falconet, has 500 sd and 1 shots a caravel.2 gbs 1 shot a frigate.u also need 4 culverins to take it out in 1 shot.they decimate fortifications and enemy artillery.the total package.
So lets go through your list,

Artillery unit with near 500 hp: Heavy Cannon and Bombard
1 shots a falconet: I've never seen the .75x and .4x modifyers listd on the unit charts and I've never had a problem 1 shotting a falc with any of the three artillery units.
1 Shots a Caravel: Rocket
2 shot a frigate: None, unless you gave them the +50% dmg against ships, then only the Rocket can do it.
Decimate Enemy Artillery: All of them have negative multiplyers against artillery, but all of them are equally effective in killing artillery, Rockets more so due to RoF being the fastest.

No unit fits the total package listed above, with the great bombard coming out the worst of all three, plagued by it's horridly slow RoF giving it the lowest damage potential of all three units.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 12-02-2007 @ 03:35 AM).]

Sjiniet
Skirmisher
posted 12-02-07 06:33 AM EDT (US)     14 / 22       
imo HC>Rocket>GB but as we know chinese arti is so broken

"You cannnot discover inhabited land , If not i could go and 'discover' England" - Iroquois Chief
Ranger General
Skirmisher
posted 12-02-07 08:23 AM EDT (US)     15 / 22       
And u ranger gen forget gb does not need to fire many times to take out ur rockets ,whereas u do. and name me a artillery unit with near 500 hp,that 1 shots a falconet, has 500 sd and 1 shots a caravel.2 gbs 1 shot a frigate.u also need 4 culverins to take it out in 1 shot.they decimate fortifications and enemy artillery.the total package.
1.'2 gbs 1 shot a frigate'
no they don't. 1 GB deals 500 *1.5=750 damage to a frigate. So 2 gb can only deal 1500 damage to a 2000hp frigate. You can't 1 shot carvavel with gb either, as the 800 hp caravel will have 50 hp left.
on the other hand, 1 rocket deals 300*3=900 damage to a frigate. So rocket will one shot a caravel and two rockets will bring the frigate down to 200 hp, surpassing what you can do with with your gbs.
2.'also need 4 culverins to take it out in 1 shot'
Your gb have only 475 hp, each culverin deals 160 damage,so 3 culverin(160*3=480>485) will one shot your gb.
Once again you have proven your ignorance and arrogance, you red tyrant of persia.

p.s here is the unit chart data, with the artillery negative mulitplier clearly listed.
GreatBombard 475 NA 7 115 3.5 32 Ranged-75% 70 W-100, G-600
Unit Types: Artillery
CannonAttack Damage: 500 (Siege), Cap: 1000, Area: 5, ROF: 8.0, Range: 0-28, Bonuses: Artillery x 0.4, Cavalry x 0.5, Ship x 1.5, LightInfantry x 0.5, xpArrowKnight x 0.5
HP Limit Pop Train Speed LOS Armor Bounty Cost

HP Limit Pop Train Speed LOS Armor Bounty Cost
Cannon 475 NA 7 115 3.5 32 Ranged-75% 70 W-200, G-500
Unit Types: Artillery
CannonAttack Damage: 200 (Siege), Cap: 400, Area: 4, ROF: 6.0, Range: 0-28, Bonuses: Infantry x 3.0, Building x 2.0, Ship x 3.0, Artillery x 0.75, xpArrowKnight x 0.5
Rocket 350 NA 6 98 4.0 32 Ranged-75% 60 W-100, G-500
Unit Types: Artillery
CannonAttack Damage: 300 (Siege), Cap: 600, Area: 4, ROF: 5.0, Range: 0-28, Bonuses: Ship x 3.0, Artillery x 0.75, xpArrowKnight x 0.5

Ulti's word of wisdom :

since the start of aoe3, every unit that can move has been a direct counter to grenadiers, even villagers(since they have bonuses against siege troops)

[This message has been edited by Ranger General (edited 12-02-2007 @ 08:24 AM).]

Red xerxes
Skirmisher
posted 12-03-07 02:58 AM EDT (US)     16 / 22       
OK ,that waas humiliating.but i still don't agree with kivlov about the hc >gb just because of2 less rof,u got to take a siege weapons sd into account.i agree on rockets.i admit my stats were a little off.
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 12-03-07 04:11 AM EDT (US)     17 / 22       
The HCannon out damages the Bombard against infantry, though a smaller splash, and on top of that it fires faster, which makes it > the bombard.

The Bombard may do more damage against buildings in one shot, but big whoop, you're only attacking buildings once the enemy units are dead, and the HCannon will have them killed first.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 12-03-07 05:12 AM EDT (US)     18 / 22       
But GB have first shot more damage, so they destroy more opponents, so less opponent remaining to shoot on them, so they survive longer, so they win with lower losses.

Rockets are best against everything that isnt infantry. Against infantry i generally prefer HC, but the difference with GB is only minor imo, nothing to worry about.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩ_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 12-03-07 10:52 AM EDT (US)     19 / 22       
Sioux warchief w/upgrade.

Argument over.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
Sporting_Lisbon
Skirmisher
posted 12-03-07 05:05 PM EDT (US)     20 / 22       
Oh rly? Stealth spies ^^

FFA Fun Series - Spring/Summer 07 winner
Cancer of the Head
Skirmisher
(id: say1988)
posted 12-03-07 10:13 PM EDT (US)     21 / 22       
The GN is better for the first shot, but if you only expect to get one shot off, you would be far better of producing res and building something else.
Yes, doing more damage with its first shot would prevent those units from doing as much damage, but after its second shot the HC would be taking less fire.

The Rocket is more versatile, cheaper (in time spent building it rather than res), and requires less pop. It also does more siege damage.
That brit building his factory at the same time as the Otto can get his rocket to the front first and produce mroe, so the GB first shot is negated this way as well.
Plus it is uniqu and cool.
RCM7535
Skirmisher
posted 12-03-07 11:52 PM EDT (US)     22 / 22       
^^ plus the explosions look so much cooler than gbs
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