You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

General Discussions
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.43 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » The other patch plans (and india) by Wacko
Bottom
Topic Subject:The other patch plans (and india) by Wacko
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
Sir Snoopy
Skirmisher
posted 01-28-08 05:53 PM EDT (US)         
Da link
India: The concern is they are too slow early game (5 vill start, vills cost 100 wood, 8% XP penalty). There is also a concern that they struggle vs. massed HI late game because Gurkha donít receive the counter-infantry rifling tech that European civs receive. Also, there are concerns about wonders and elephants but I believe those are only issues because of their lack of econ strength early game.



Proposed solution:



∑ Remove XP penalty

∑ +1 vills, -1 food crate

∑ Either allow the Gurkha a counter-infantry rifling tech in some way OR give them +0.5 multiplier vs. HI with the Disciplined and Honored upgrades respectively.

∑ Leave elephants as they are, improve Mansabdar aura to 15% perhaps?

∑ Leave wonders as they are
Discuss!

Retired GameReplays.org Senior Replay Reviewer
World Class Drum Corps International Mellophonist 2009
Proud Winner of "Best Newbie Award" BFME2H, a long time ago
AuthorReplies:
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 01-30-08 02:23 PM EDT (US)     26 / 43       
1. They still need to gather 100 food more, it takes 1 settler 2 minutes to gather 100 food. So your age up time will barely change.
And now distributism comes at same time as first shipment for other settler.

Even if they wouldnt have settler with shipment and if you have 7 settler start instead of 6. (which is much better than 6 settler start + 1 settler with shipment). Then you still got much more expensive settler than other civs. So then you are still weaker early game than most other civs.

2.
2. Ghurkas will be very powerful in early Fortress.
And that would be arround the first 3 minutes in fortress. And as known india got a great FF so we really need to worry about this. And lets not forget, they dont got auto veteran skirms. So serious, they arent anything better than other skirms early fortress.

3. Other civs just send a +15% hp/attack card for their infantry, india doesnt have that. So mansabdar that are usefull arent a problem. (elepghants have some cards, but suck anyway, and their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole).

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 01-30-08 02:32 PM EDT (US)     27 / 43       
their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Picturesque.

Sigged!

One idea is to give the CIR at the castle beginning in age 3, have it sendable with a diplomatic choice at the Consulate, etc.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 01-30-08 05:58 PM EDT (US)     28 / 43       
1. True, your age up time will probably only change 10-15 seconds, but that early in the game, that could be the difference between happily ever after and ouchies.

2. India's FF is already decent with Fort then Taj Mahal or vice versa, with a slight faster age up time to Colonial, that will also make this faster. Again, the first three minutes or possibly even less into Spain, France, or China's Fortress if you are still Colonial usually= you're dead. Three minutes makes a huge difference here. I'm still not convinced that Ghurkas would not be too powerful in this time frame.

3. Not true. The British whatever card thing boosts some of the infantry, and Camel Attack is great. If nothing else, it is certainly worth building Camel Mansabdars especially for Zamburaks late game. I'll agree that the Elephants do suck, but the infantry do have at least a few cards, and the Mansabdars are worth it for Camels alone. Of course, late game, Desert Terror>Camel Attack, just adding to the Mansabdar effect. You can already have ridiculous Zamburaks, then add an even better Mansabdar and you've got one crazy good unit.

A_S: "Cunni's pic wins thread otherwise failing due to being 5-7 years behind the times."
"Brilliant cunni simply brilliant"
C_MAG: "CunniJA's post is epic win."
Brtnboarder495
Skirmisher
posted 01-30-08 06:51 PM EDT (US)     29 / 43       
Heh, well I play India, and I find no trouble whatsoever versus any civ on almost any map except Dutch, China and sometimes Sioux. If they are boosted, I'll just be that much more stronger.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
jayce
Skirmisher
posted 01-30-08 08:05 PM EDT (US)     30 / 43       
like all falls said. India is a decent civ now, can compete and beat most civs other than the top three. Vs xbow civs they are a real pain. Four boosts and subsequent nerfs to other civs... sound like anything familiar?

You're right that the extra vil won't do much to age up time but their eco is much stronger going forward considering asians can build vils during age up.

Sowars are very good units vs LI which is what they're designed for.
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 01-31-08 02:27 AM EDT (US)     31 / 43       
2. You are again forgetting the lack of auto veteran upgrade. You need to get that upgrade to make them worthwile. If you dont want to lose due to lack of units it means you will need to make a rax just to do that upgrade. Which is almost as expensive as an arsenal, and the veteran upgrade is as expensive as CIR. In other words: It is hardly better than cir, if cir would give an extra 0.5x multiplier instead of 1x.

3. Camel attack is great yes, but last time i checked it did not affect ranged infantry. And their melee camels still suck, and their ranged camels are good yes. But wont do much good lategame.
Zamburaks are good against cav, but not good allround.
The brittish whatever card good? (remember only inf boost card). What have you been smoking? It sucks.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

jayce
Skirmisher
posted 01-31-08 09:19 AM EDT (US)     32 / 43       
ypSowar 225hp speed: 7.5 armor: Ranged-30%
MeleeHandAttack Damage: 20 (Hand), ROF: 1.5, Bonuses: Infantry x 1.5, HeavyInfantry x 0.67
Myll_Erik
Seraph Emeritus
posted 01-31-08 09:31 AM EDT (US)     33 / 43       
Sowar are fine - they do their job. Not every civ needs some do everything OP unit.

Veni, Vidi, Vici
Trample the Weak - Hurdle the Dead!
"It's kind of a...persnickety magic." Atzy
End of Nations!
End of Nations Community Manager
JimXIX
Kings Guard
posted 01-31-08 01:34 PM EDT (US)     34 / 43       
They are nerfing pets too. Looks like we can't do our Rhino janey rush as well anymore :P

You'll remember that four (!) hour game against that crazy Russian that wouldn't give up, not realizing he was playing someone who in real life actually is a crazy Russian, that won't give up either. - Ender_Ward
Cyclohexane
Skirmisher
posted 02-01-08 12:50 PM EDT (US)     35 / 43       
Mansabdar units are an excellent boost and better than the 15% attack / HP card in most circumstances. The reason why I say this is that the Mansabdar aura affects the total damage / HP value. This means that is stacks with any other upgrades (British passive HP consulate, cards, disciplined upgrade, etc.). The only time the 10% damage / HP aura is not better than the 15% damage / HP cards (which only effect base statistics, not the total value), is when they are not upgraded at all (i.e. colonial units). The stacked effects of the aura are better than base upgrades (if the unit is upgraded). Therefore, you really need the disciplined upgrade to take full advantage of the Mansabdar units.

If you want more information and a quick desktop reference to all damage, HP, statistics for every unit in the game for any age with any upgrade, check out my AOE3 TWC TAD Unit Comparison Workbook. It is a free download, accurate with in-game testing, and the best tool available on the internet.

I agree with most of the posters that India is currently a decent civilization. I would rank them slightly lower than average and in need of a boost. However, I think it will be a disaster if all of those boosts are applied combined with nerfs to other civilizations. India will be the new QS civ.

In my humble opinion, removing the XP penalty combined with a reduced population requirement for the elephant Mansabdar units will be a great start. I also think the Inspiration Wonder (temporarily grants boost to units damage, HP, speed should affect the total stats like an aura and not the base stats like a HC card).

Also adding an extra villager, food crate, and making houses cost less wood just seems insane. I am so sick of OP civs and no variety in QS.

Lead, Follow, or Get the Hell out of the way!................CYCLOHEXANE'S FREE GUIDES:

-TAD GUIDE: AOE3 TWC TAD Quick Reference -or view online: On-line
AOE3 TWC TAD UNIT COMPARISON SPREADSHEET: Unit Comparison Spreadsheet

See other guides, technological advancements, interviewing tips, and more at my website All Things Miscellaneous

[This message has been edited by Cyclohexane (edited 02-01-2008 @ 12:50 PM).]

CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 02-01-08 12:54 PM EDT (US)     36 / 43       
The Inspiration Wonder really blows. Maybe it could be useful in some really weird uber-anti-FF strat to alpha strike the TC, but otherwise it's really useless basically. I believe that they should make the thing Golden Pavillion-ish. However, that may be difficult to do because they have to keep the Japanese and Indians unique. That wonder really needs a boost. Maybe just a longer time.

A_S: "Cunni's pic wins thread otherwise failing due to being 5-7 years behind the times."
"Brilliant cunni simply brilliant"
C_MAG: "CunniJA's post is epic win."
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 02-01-08 03:14 PM EDT (US)     37 / 43       
yes, and while they are at it, perhaps the Asian civs could be allowed to build native embassies? It's super-frustrating to ally with awesome natives and then by the time your native dorks reach the front, your regular army is annihilated. This is especially true with slow dorks like Sufi War Elephants. There seems to be no "design" reason why this was left out, and historically China and the Mughal Empire did move a lot of native officers around to establish training camps for specialized units.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 02-01-08 04:47 PM EDT (US)     38 / 43       
@cyclo, since you like stats, how about you compare indian start with french start. Then also compare Siege elephants with culverin (SE totally suck, they get owned so hard by skirms it isnt funny), mahout with cuirs (mahout totally suck), ghurka with skirms late game (ghurkas cant even come equal with ranged HI late game. But according to your post they dont need the ability to get extra multiplier vs HI. India doesnt need to counter HI? You realise ghurka is their ONLY counter to HI? And that since mahout completely suck against everything but *LI and mahout are there only counter late game to *LI (dont start about sowar), they need a good counter vs HI. At the moment the only thing you can do is vs HI spam, spam more sepoy yourself. Which are usually inferior due to lack of upgrade cards. And against HI + some *LI mixed in the only thing you can do is resign).

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

SirKapor
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-08 10:27 AM EDT (US)     39 / 43       
> Aztecs- Itís universally agreed that the Aztecs need a lot of changes. People especially want the Tlaloc Canoe Big Button to be nerfed in some way. ...... or as was suggested by a user have it be a timed Big Button like the Dog Soldier button in the Sioux Town Center.

UGH! Please don't do this!
Another good source of OOS
WE DON'T WANT IT!

All of the timed BiGButtons cause OOS!
(ok it depends who are the players,
but the same opponents - the same result constantly)
schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-08 10:51 AM EDT (US)     40 / 43       
Euh wtf? I never had OOS problems with bit button upgrades.

"such a kind fellow!" ~ ķįŋğ_Ćħŗĩö_ĬĬ

Furby killer should be crowned leader of AOE forum ~ [SW_GD]Teutonic

x_Appel_x
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-08 11:44 AM EDT (US)     41 / 43       
Hm, I don't think india is gonna be overboosted, removing 8% to zero could be too much tough, maybe to 3% ?

And for the rest, gurkhs etc.. Only get a boost in fortress, and since india has one of the weakest and slowest FF's this will not bee too much of a problem.

Maybe they could increase the agra fort build time by 5-15 seconds, so that would help the coming OP sepoy rush off.
Sjiniet
Skirmisher
posted 02-03-08 08:19 AM EDT (US)     42 / 43       
india needs all there wacky (but fun elements) boosted but very slightly and with care.

-Gurkha: I agree, give them +0.5 vs HI (but make the upgrade a tad more expensive imho)
-Mansabdar: fine imo (if you use them for your ellies your just plain dumb, this thanks to the insane pop cost)
-Ellies in general: here is where I go blank , i never use them except for the occasional shipment, i prefer sowars, who FU (in colonial) have an awsome 29 attack (x2 vs LI) (you can even add a mansabdar)
You can easily get this in team games and on, in 1V1, mongolia, deccan or other maps with cows, lamas, a bunch of sheep etc.
-wonders: most of them are fine imho, except for the awful tower of victory, i agree with Cyclo, apply it on all stats not on base ones.
-shipments: remove the 8% but if you do this do not apply most of the other boost!!

give them a minor boost, their eco problems are over once your like 5mins in the game imo, 2 wood trickle cards give you a continuous vil pump.

"You cannnot discover inhabited land , If not i could go and 'discover' England" - Iroquois Chief

[This message has been edited by Sjiniet (edited 02-03-2008 @ 08:20 AM).]

Othello484
Skirmisher
posted 02-12-08 02:32 AM EDT (US)     43 / 43       
I'm sure this is the right post, but the by line seems to indicate general patch comments. So here goes.

Since the British are the cellar resident in TAD per the new stats from ESO, how about some slight changes to help them out? For example, 1)Yeomen card changes longbow cost to 40 gold from 40 wood, and/or 2) Let them build more houses (e.g. 10 more). Both of these changes are relatively small but I think might make put the British somewhere in the fat area of the bell curve.

Also, and I know this is a tertiary concern, but why not buff the cards nobody uses in an effort to create "card balance." From my perspective, the more cards that smart players use, the more interesting the games becomes.
« Previous Page  1 2  Next Page »
You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Hop to:    

Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames