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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Some things I liked better in AoK
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Topic Subject:Some things I liked better in AoK
Dogbert
Skirmisher
posted 02-13-08 07:17 PM EDT (US)         
Some of you may or may not have played AoK, and I can tell you it was awesome if you have not. AoE is better in most ways, but here are some of the things I think were better in AoK.

-Multiple bonuses. The European civs/most native civs have only one great starting bonus, like "creates villies for free" or "gets town wagon with age up". The civs in Aok had many more, kind of like the Asian ones in TAD. A civ could have faster units. cheaper units and/or resource bonus or stronger buildings or gathering bonus etc.

-The unique unit. Each civ had one major unique unit that didn't conform to standards. There was anti-archer huskarl infantry, anti-siege cav archer mangos, anti-unique unit samurai and others. In AoE3, civs have unique units, but they are just variations of standard units in terms of strengths and weaknesses. Cassador=skirm. Ruyter=dragoon, puma=pikeman etc. It would be nice if each civ had a unit or two that went against the conventional triangle.

-Time specs on shipment cards. Nuff said.

Discuss
AuthorReplies:
CunniJA
Skirmisher
posted 02-13-08 07:46 PM EDT (US)     1 / 20       
Yeah, I always wanted a Hand Resistance Lancer type with weaker attack, and a Hand Cavalry Anti-Cavalry like Camels back in AoK. A Huskarlish thing would be cool too. The unit I would really like is Teutonic Knight-like thing. Doppels are sort of similar, but I want it like Doppels on steroids, but with speed 2 or something.

However, Yabusame are sort of like those Mongolian bastards were.

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[This message has been edited by CunniJA (edited 02-13-2008 @ 07:47 PM).]

Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 02-13-08 08:36 PM EDT (US)     2 / 20       
Well, I think that your points are valid, but just to a certain... point.

First you have to remember that the bonuses granted to AoE3 civilizations are way more unique than those AoK civs had. You can't really compare "10% cheaper that" and "gathers stuff 15% faster" with bonuses that completely change the gameplay such as covered wagons every age up, settlers out of houses, or auto-queueing villagers. Then you have to considerate that, while AoK civilizations had small variations of one or two dozen technologies between them, each civilization in AoE3 has a whole deck. A whole unique combination of over a hundred cards for each nation. You can't say that they aren't "multiple bonuses".

As for the second point, that's true, but there's more to look at. Not only every civilization in AoE3 has several unique units and buildings (comparing to one or, at most, a pair of in AoK - and not counting native americans and asians, that are 100% unique when concerning military), but this game has far too many units out of the conventional triangle already. AoK was mostly about the said triangle with a few exceptions among each civ's UU. In AoE3 we have way more factors to add there that make it shaped more like a circle.

Not saying that AoK wasn't a good game with it's own strong points - it was awesome in fact. But for better or for worse, AoE3 is more complicated than it seems at a first look.

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Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
Reepicheep77
Skirmisher
posted 02-13-08 10:53 PM EDT (US)     3 / 20       
A while after I got AoE3, i decided to get AoK, and i didn't really like AoK as much. The game goes along too slow, units take too long to train, one UU for each civ isn't enough, the civ bonuses only affect individual units and economy, they don't give unique powers to different civs. And I know this is just because the game is so old, but the maps are bland, the graphics aren't that good, and i really hated it how you attack a building by cutting it up with swords, and then it starts on fire, and then suddenly falls down. One thing I did like was simply the fact that it was set during the middle ages, and I like that time a lot; I think gatling guns and ironclads has gone a little bit too far into time, and they should stick with older times. Just my opinions though.
crazykid
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-08 02:10 AM EDT (US)     4 / 20       
Reepicheep, It might be different for you, getting aoe3 first and then trying aoe2, I don't know. A lot of us on here played aok since it came out so we naturally love it. I've said in the past that i really liked aok better, but I don't know, latelly I've really gotten into aoe3 like never before.

Still, aok is good to go back to to play against the AI or campaign or something. Just not full time. It'd be hard to adjust back to when you're expecting a card to be ready anytime lol, or remembering to build mills for your deer, or lumbercamps.
Humility
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-08 09:24 AM EDT (US)     5 / 20       
I played AoE when it first came out.I definably like aoe3 best.Its hard to believe that most of the people who complain about Sevastopol yearn for aok.Frankish castle spam For the yawn.
Catabre
BFME2H Replay Reviewer - Library Guildsman
posted 02-14-08 11:42 AM EDT (US)     6 / 20       
I lovbed AoK. The Frederick Barbarossa campaign was the best. I would only play as Teutons or Byzantines.

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Beric01
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-08 10:07 PM EDT (US)     7 / 20       
I bought AoE3, and then bought AoK. I like AoK better. AoE3 focuses too much on graphics. When actually playing an RTS, you honestly don't notice good graphics. You just want the graphics to be functional, so you can move around as fast as possible.

I don't hate AoE3, but I feel AoK has tons of advantages.
Buildings that can actually play a serious part. Defensive structures and defensive strategy. Less rushing (I hate rushing, because for an RTS, rushing manages to be completely tactics and no strategy, making a game RTT, or real-time-tactics). Troops that can be garrisoned inside buildings.
A balanced navy. This is HUGE for me. I love ships, and AoE3 Ships are a mega-bummer. Unbalanced, and uber-simplified.
The ability to play whatever civ you want whenever you want, fully capable, instead of spending months maxing out a HC, and then moving on to another civ and having to do the same. I dislike the HC leveling up.
More economic strategy. You can get more than the wimpy 99 villagers. Dropoff points make the game so much more realistic and fun, instead of seeing one villager chopping away at a tree for minutes. Resources can actually run out.
AI that can actually play, and be modified to be even better. A biggie for me, because I don't play online, only over LAN.
And finally, civilizations that, with only one unique unit, manage to be completely different from each other.
More game options. You can have 4 2-player teams, which is really cool. You basicly get all the AoE3 game options plus tons more. Regicide, Deathmatch, score, wonder and relic victories, tons of options that keep you coming back.

A game that is simple enough to be customizeable by anyone. Look on HG at the difference in numbers of user-made add-ons. A real biggie

The Middle Ages. My favorite time in history. Enough said.


With all that said, I don't hate AoE3 at all. I find it enjoyable. However, I think AoE3 is a graphics upgrade, and simplification of everything else. As such, I spend more time with LAN AoK.
General_II
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-08 10:52 PM EDT (US)     8 / 20       
I have to agree with what you said about the unique units. They just don't seem very unique any more. Counter systems are so... unique not I doubt it's possible though. Yes, the middle ages were awesome.

[This message has been edited by General_II (edited 02-14-2008 @ 10:53 PM).]

Lord Berminator
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-08 11:08 PM EDT (US)     9 / 20       
Congrats General!

Anyway, check out my psot for AOE1 Remake in FESG Forum. I'm developing ideas (with plenty of help ) for an AOE1 Remake, so far it's pretty good I must say. I think Ancient Times was best time period.

Sorry to say though, the fact that resources run out in AOK is TERRIBLE. UNREALISTIC. Lol. And the civs aren't completely unique, I agree HC leveling may be annoying, but that adds uniqueness, and civs in AOE3 have much more unique units. AOK is still great though, improve graphics and gameplay slighty, add a couple of features, and BAM you got a game that owns AOE3.

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[This message has been edited by Lord Berminator (edited 02-14-2008 @ 11:11 PM).]

crazykid
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-08 11:52 PM EDT (US)     10 / 20       
hey Berminator, im all for what you're doing then. I think the timeline would be awesome, especially for campaigns, if they did a remake of aoe1. You know, if we keep on about it, maybe they WILL make a remake
Dogbert
Skirmisher
posted 02-15-08 05:03 PM EDT (US)     11 / 20       
@ Angel Walker

I see what you mean, but the bonuses were a lot more then +15% to this, etc. They usually had meaning with context to the civ.
The vikings were known for terrorizing from the sea, so warships and docks cost less.
The saracens had massive trading possibilities, so they had the best market prices.
The mongols had great skill, so their cav archers fire faster.

In AoE3, what does free uhlans with each shipment mean? Why do the ottos get free villies? The Brits get a settler with each manor house? I don't really see the historical context there.

I also think that multi-player in Aoe3 trumps AoK, but the single player in the old one is vastly superior. I can barely stand the torture of going through the uninspired SP. But thats just my opinion. I'm certain others disagree.
randomjack
Skirmisher
posted 02-15-08 05:50 PM EDT (US)     12 / 20       
If you like AoK so much, why don't you just marry it?

I had to say that, sorry...

But seruiously, if AoK was so good, why don't you play it instead?

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AgeHead
Skirmisher
posted 02-15-08 05:58 PM EDT (US)     13 / 20       
For me the thing I miss the most is the feeling of invading another's "country"

Stick with me here,

I know that AoE3 is/was based on the colonization of the new world, but in AoK when you broke through your opponent's walls I really felt like i was commanding some historical battle and invading France. My huge army would collide with his, making the battle even more epic. Now I destroy an outpost or Fb, kill and few skirms and raid a few villies, but I don't feel as rewarded as I did when my army finally overcame his and marched triumphantly into his base killing all in my path.

I suppose what I'm trying to say is that the epic scale and nature of AoK has been lost to faster rushes and skirmishes. I don't feel like I'm starting an empire but rather focusing on destroying my opponents puny colony.
sneaky_squirrel
Skirmisher
posted 02-15-08 07:00 PM EDT (US)     14 / 20       
I like the idea off small colony wars, makes it feel tense, were like a colony of 25 men and 15 women and must survive by reproducing really fast and building minor bases.

The Gods have left us, therefore making the old world crumble and turn into ashes...

But as the gods return, from the ashes of the old world, shall rise a more beautiful and powerful new world, and life will begin once more, if they hadn't closed...dang you ES.
Lord Berminator
Skirmisher
posted 02-15-08 07:19 PM EDT (US)     15 / 20       
See, if they remade AOK with better graphics & gameplay and the other stuff I said, then it would be better than AOE3. If they went back and did it with AOE1, that would be the best game EVER. Period.

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Editor of: Orissa, Kill the Sun, Bathe in Hate

Current Projects: Fog of War, Island Hopping
PhoenixBird
Skirmisher
posted 02-16-08 00:11 AM EDT (US)     16 / 20       
Just like Berminator said...

Letīs hope ES does this remake someday. It would RULE! Medieval ages again... just with better graphics, and perhaps some features, but still loyal to the old game.

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Dogbert
Skirmisher
posted 02-16-08 00:45 AM EDT (US)     17 / 20       
It would rule, PB. I hope that they do manage to incorporate some sort of card strategy into it, but different from the incessant levling of aoe3
Lord Berminator
Skirmisher
posted 02-16-08 00:54 AM EDT (US)     18 / 20       
Amen.

Scenarios: Worldmap Series I: North America, Worldmap Series II: Caribbean, The Wasteland

Editor of: Orissa, Kill the Sun, Bathe in Hate

Current Projects: Fog of War, Island Hopping
Beric01
Skirmisher
posted 02-16-08 02:00 AM EDT (US)     19 / 20       
Agree with everything said. An AoK with better graphics and some fixes to a few nuances in the gameplay would be an incredible game.
Humility
Skirmisher
posted 02-16-08 11:56 AM EDT (US)     20 / 20       
I think AOE3 navy is balanced once age 4 hits.AOK navy was far from balanced Fire ships had no counter other then other fire ships and bombard gallons were only beat by Fire ships.I think you are blinded by nostalgia.
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