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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » bottom 3 of 1.01
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Topic Subject:bottom 3 of 1.01
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 06:11 AM EDT (US)         
3, Ottoman

the church change itself is not huge, it made ottoman more like a normal civ, what made the biggest difference is nerf to silk road and increased difficulty to fish boom. otto was decent on TP map and water map, weak on NWNT maps, now it is just slightly better than weak but below average on all maps.

2, Dutch

115 res skirm were never strong, dutch had the eco to power them before, but now with less vils, being more venerable to cavalry + LI, and no more constant shipments, dutch can hardly survive in colonial warfare.

1, Port

With 1.01 announced I thought Port was going to be decent, having boosted mid game hussar and improved cassadore. however 1 month down the line it looks like these are not able to compensate the widened gap between port and civs with boosted early game. cavalry orientated civ can raid port harder, their cavalry are now more efficient in killing cassadore, even though cassadores got extra 20% HP, but doing way less damage means their just cant protect themselves against cavalry at all, dragoon shipment dont quite kill cavalry fast enough, overall their LI+LC FF game is very risky now, and their colonial is not a bit improved.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-03-2008 @ 07:02 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
George_uk
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 07:26 AM EDT (US)     1 / 11       
Cassies do the same damage 1.01 and 1. Well very very nearly the game anyway, remember the ROF was changed to 3 like other skirms.

Previously known as MoNo Ager
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 08:07 AM EDT (US)     2 / 11       
cassadores overall dmg is not changed much, 26 to 25.5, but they do worse against cav now, on first hit they do less than half the damage they used to. (66% x 75%)
Killa4life
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 08:22 AM EDT (US)     3 / 11       
Agreed on Ottos, they have basically no strategies left aside from jan rush, jan/abus and jan/huss... their FF is also not exactly good now.

Their eco is just too weak now and their army cant compensate that with so many civs having better units/combos (india, japs, etc)

Agreed on Ports as well, they simply cant compete and this patch boosted HI/cav and RI/cav a lot, making their best combo goon/cassa a lot weaker. Going huss with them is simply too risky, they need tons of food anyway etc and they lack a huss age3 shipment


But while I think dutch is weak I wouldnt say they are bottom3, maybe the 4th worst civ. IMO Spain is worse. While being a "good" civ in theory they just cannot compete in actual games - their lack of proper age2 military shipments really kills them. 6+5 rods are balls and any civ that can either a) spam xbows or b) spam muskets properly will own them (india, france, germany, brits, japan etc etc).
Their FF is now a lot weaker as well.
Spain is only good if they are left alone and can do a boomy FF with maybe tps or water, unfortunately this doesnt rly work vs any civ... aside from maybe ports.
English Shogun
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 08:25 AM EDT (US)     4 / 11       
spanish aren't very good. weak units bar the lancer.
Camp
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 11:22 AM EDT (US)     5 / 11       
I would say the problem is that their is still a big difference between the weakest civ and the second weakest civ..

Seriously ES, has ports EVER been OP to the point where everybody was laming the same strat that couldn't be beat with the exception of a few pros? Not to the best of my knowledge... I don't understand why ES is so afraid of boosting ports.

I don't think there are 3 UP civs in 1.01, I think Ports and Dutch are UP, but ottos are pretty much alright, There are however 3 OP civs in 1.01 (india, Japan, German), while the other 9 are balanced quite well... ES needs to boost the port colonial economy, give dutchies back ONLY their bank XP, nerf the 4 sowar card to 3, and give ahis a colonial damage nerf which they get back with fortress upgrade, also kill yumi attack by 2 and range by 1... Thats it.. game balanced.
TheRomans
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 12:42 PM EDT (US)     6 / 11       
Seriously ES, has ports EVER been OP to the point where everybody was laming the same strat that couldn't be beat with the exception of a few pros? Not to the best of my knowledge
Back in Vanilla 1.07, ports were the Second best civ, only behind Germans. When LI got a bonus vs RC and the FF was nerfed, Ports got hit hard and haven't been very good since.

+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
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Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 05:07 PM EDT (US)     7 / 11       
I think a lot of civs fall into the 'just above ports' category. You could just as easily put Spanish or Brits in there but these are arguable.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 07:07 PM EDT (US)     8 / 11       
Killa4life,

I didnt include spain because I feel spain can still do a particular FF that is no weaker, in fact slightly stronger than before. however I need to test this one a bit more first.

but apart from that, spain does suck, the same way all xbow civs struggle in colonial.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-03-2008 @ 07:11 PM).]

JamesTheMann
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 09:43 PM EDT (US)     9 / 11       
The spain ff IS weaker. The 5 lancer shipment is gone and so is the 9 rods. They were two keepers. I agree with nerfing their shipment bonus to 75%. They could even have nerfed it more, but some shipments just suck. 3 lancers isnt even worth the place in a deck. Neither are 5 rods and 7 rods. If they gave 5 lancers but it cost 200 food, then it would have been good imo as 5 lancers as a free card is too strong. I think the colonial shipments were fine too.
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 10:39 PM EDT (US)     10 / 11       
I am not talking about the standard lancer +rods + falc FF.
TjRome
Skirmisher
posted 05-06-08 00:34 AM EDT (US)     11 / 11       
I agree w/ the Dutch being a bottom,UP civ. I used to play Dutch, even in Vanilla, and I think right now Dutch are the weakest they've ever been. The current state of the game consists of 90% colonial fighting, which dutch just suck at. You might THINK that having skirms in age II is a blessing, but those skirms are colonial stat skirms, NOT the veteren, Age III skirms. They get out-classed, by every other type of light/ranged infantry in the game.

To rub salt in the woods, dutch lack any decent type of heavy infantry in age II. They're left w/ pikes: an easily countered unit. To make matters worse, halbs are no better now that that military reforms card has been further nerfed. Dutch are left w/ gold-heavy, population in-effective rutyers for their anti-cav force.

The dutch got smacked w/ the nerf brick too hard. Lowering the starting villager, AND nerfing banks was too much.

Give the dutch some musketeers or crossbows(not going to happen) and I think they'd bounce right back to being a middle-tier civ. W/ out those options, then perhaps lower dutch skirm cost in age II to make their cost/effectives more on-par w/ the rest of the civs.

Until then, I've suddenly discovered how much I like the Brits. Since most of the fighting happens in age II now, no one can boom in the Age II like the brits can...if you can survive that first rush (about a 50/50 proposition for me right now), then it's boom time and leave all other civs economies in the dust.

[This message has been edited by TjRome (edited 05-06-2008 @ 04:46 AM).]

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