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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » German Shipment Penalty
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Topic Subject:German Shipment Penalty
Camp
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 11:26 AM EDT (US)         
I understand the german shipment penalty, I think its ~14 percent? Not exactly sure, but I know its to compensate for the "Free" uhlans that come with every shipment from colonial on.... There is however, one card that I think needs a bit of tweaking...

5 Uhlans
5 Uhlans is a great shipment in most of my decks, but its also not really a fair shipment for the german player. Take out the 2 uhlans that you "get free" for the shipment bonus, now its just 3 uhlans

3 uhlans is weaker than 3 hussar and 4 sowar, seriously weaker. The base shipment (minus the 2 "FREE" uhlans) should be 4 uhlans, then the 2 free ones added on for a shipment of 6.

basicially 5 Uhlan card should be 6 because otherwise the 14% penalty only gives one uhlan on this card.

Your thoughts?
AuthorReplies:
English Shogun
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 11:42 AM EDT (US)     1 / 16       
having 6 uhlans shipped in COLONIAL is just absurd. they'd destroy anything. i even think 5 is a bit too much, but hey, i live with it.
Camp
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 11:45 AM EDT (US)     2 / 16       
I understand how powerful it would be but its just another commonly used card that doesn't actually use the XP penalty

That xp penalty is on all german shipments, like your discovery 2 wagons which almost every german uses and gets no uhlans, so if you send 2 wagons then 5 uhlans, your 28% behind on xp and you've seen no return on it yet. That is a problem.
Giskard
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 12:17 PM EDT (US)     3 / 16       
Mathematically, as 4 Uhlans = 3 Hussars (4 x 150 = 3 x 200), the shipment ought to be 6 uhlans. However, remember this is only one badly thought out card out of an entire unbalanced card system.

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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 01:59 PM EDT (US)     4 / 16       
9 xbow + 2 uhlans is allready completely retarded (fine for me the day dutch get a colonial 13 skirm shipment, instead of needing to wait till industrial, and yes i have no problems with xp penalty the day i get colonial 13 skirm shipment). Okay 13 skirms more expensive, than we make it a 11 skirm shipment.

And like i told in another topic, i have a great solution for these whiners. Lets give germans 1 free uhlan in colonial per shipment, and keep 5 uhlan shipment the same. Suddenly it is a good shipment. You happy, we happy, everyone happy.

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Humility
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 04:14 PM EDT (US)     5 / 16       
5 Uhlan is balanced now. This is constantly talked about and constantly shot down. 6 uhlans would be op 5 uhlans is fine. it is useful and balanced.
Colonel_UGMO
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 05-03-08 05:09 PM EDT (US)     6 / 16       
umm 6 uhlan compared to aztec 5 coyote?

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ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-03-08 07:09 PM EDT (US)     7 / 16       
so you suppose to have 4 and get 2 more as your bonus? in that case shouldn't the shipment penalty increased to 50%?
Camp
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 01:18 AM EDT (US)     8 / 16       
When ES gave germans the shipment penalty they calculated that 1 uhlan was worth 7% shipment penalty, 2 is worth 14% and so on...
I understand that it would be terribly unbalanced, but shipments come in sooo dam slow for germans that it almost forces you to go with 9xbow2uhlan first, when sometimes you need those extra uhlans..

I think the way to fix the problem, and all of you can tell me what you think about this, is to remove the shipment penalty on the first shipment only, and then have a 14 % penalty on the rest of the shipments from there on. Mathmaticially 5 uhlans should be 6, and I understand that that would be unbalanced, so maybe also the "non-uhlan" cards should also grant 14% xp to "cover" for the unused penalty...
what do you think?
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 02:44 AM EDT (US)     9 / 16       
When ES gave germans the shipment penalty they calculated that 1 uhlan was worth 7% shipment penalty, 2 is worth 14% and so on...
not only ES doesnt calculate, and is not good at calculating, the fact is it doesnt work like that, in discovery german gets no uhlan shipment, in fortress they get 3.

I think the way to fix the problem, and all of you can tell me what you think about this, is to remove the shipment penalty on the first shipment only, and then have a 14 % penalty on the rest of the shipments from there on. Mathmaticially 5 uhlans should be 6, and I understand that that would be unbalanced, so maybe also the "non-uhlan" cards should also grant 14% xp to "cover" for the unused penalty...
what do you think?
why remove penalty for first shipment? they get 4 vils in age1 shipment, and can save that shipment till colonial and get 2 uhlans.

also you cant remove the penalty on non-unlan cards, because you can choose any card you want with arrive of a shipment.


the best way to fix it is to reduce all uhlans in shipments by 1, and take away the shipment penalty.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-04-2008 @ 07:46 PM).]

Camp
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 07:35 AM EDT (US)     10 / 16       
the best way to fix it is to reduce all uhlans in shipments by 1, and take away the shipment penalty.
*agreed*
Spectruz
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 11:46 AM EDT (US)     11 / 16       
Make sense in theory what u guys saying about have 6 uhlans instead of 4, but in practice it will be so op that noobs from the 4 corners of the world will start play Germans, I think We need to focus balance where it is needed, with Calvary fixed, Uhlan is a good unit now, and German is a well balanced civ, lets see what we can do to balance a little more Up civs, like the poor Ports, or brink some Op civ down to balance, and so far since I start in Vanilla this is the most balanced patch yet, even ports stand a chance to win.
Flair
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 12:37 PM EDT (US)     12 / 16       
One extra Uhlan is not going to make the Germans ridiculously OP.
Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 12:41 PM EDT (US)     13 / 16       
5 uhlans is still good in the colonial age. Like Flair said, one extra uhlan won't affect much, so either way works for me.

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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 01:32 PM EDT (US)     14 / 16       
Yeah that really wouldnt be OP, 8 uhlans and 9 xbows with 2 shipments...

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Mark_Aurel
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 02:06 PM EDT (US)     15 / 16       
I understand how powerful it would be but its just another commonly used card that doesn't actually use the XP penalty

That xp penalty is on all german shipments, like your discovery 2 wagons which almost every german uses and gets no uhlans, so if you send 2 wagons then 5 uhlans, your 28% behind on xp and you've seen no return on it yet. That is a problem.
Ummm, no. The German XP penalty works like this (and is currently 10%, not 14%):

Normal civ
Shipment 1: 300 XP
Shipment 2: 345 XP
Shipment 3: 397 XP
Shipment 4: 456 XP

Germans
Shipment 1: 330 XP
Shipment 2: 380 XP
Shipment 3: 436 XP
Shipment 4: 502 XP

You'll never fall "28% behind on xp". You'll find that you drop a little further behind on each shipment, due to the cumulative effect, but that increase is very small between individual shipments.

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schildpad
Skirmisher
posted 05-04-08 04:15 PM EDT (US)     16 / 16       
Not to mention 4 SW shipment is far stronger than normal 3 settler shipment other civs get.

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