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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Socrstar's Guide to Turtling
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Topic Subject:Socrstar's Guide to Turtling
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 06:08 PM EDT (US)         
*PICs coming soon!!!*


Alright, so I have been told a number of times now that I am a VERY annoying turtler, and just thought I'd write up a guide of tips and tricks to help you newer turtlers out there (and maybe even some more experienced ones as well)
So here it is:



A guide to turtling

The first concept I will cover is house placement (Some of this information is from a guide called "House Placement" by turbo supra in the old AOE strategy guide). Anyhow, there are several ways to place your houses in order to add to the defense of your town. Since I don't have any pictures yet, I will do my best to describe.

Part 1:

A technique used by many players is placing houses around your TC in order to prevent the enemy units from getting to your TC:

For example: x=house T=TC -= nothing

xxx
xTx
x--x

The houses allow for vils and shipments to leave, but prevent more than 9-10 units from attacking at once.

This can also be used on plantations, mills, and other gathering sources as well:

Part 2:

A. Place houses around the mine to provide extra protection

B. Surround the outside of mills with houses, leaving a small space for gatherers to enter and leave



C. Place houses about half a screen from the mine.

Examples A and B allow you to gather from the mine/mill while providing a little bit of extra protection to your vils

C allows more gathering from the mine, but provides for less protection. The benefit from this is having extra time to garrison vils from attackers by being able to see farther with the houses' LOS.

Also building houses together allows fewer units to surround and therefore takes longer to destroy:

Part 3:

x=house -=nothing
-xx
-xx

Fewer units can siege, which gives you more time to prepare for another wave.

x--x--x--x

This is less effective, as it takes up more space, and more units can attack, and one of the points to a turtle is having a compressed base. Not small, but compressed.
--------------------------------------------------
The next subject is outposts. I play many people who send their vils halfway across the map to mine. This isn't the smartest idea, but if you use a few walls and an outpost, you allow more time for an army to come to defend or a place for vils to hide.

Part 1:

x=outpost z=mine/ herd l&_= wall -=nothing

_______
l-x--z---l
l______l

The wall prevents calv from just running in and smacking away at your vils. Also, the outpost provides a garrison place for your vils.

Part 2:

Outposts can also be spammed throughout the map to gain control and LOS

In order to do this, just make an outpost in the desired place. Then, once built, use the building's LOS to measure. Take half that distance and build an outpost that far away from the outpost's LOS edge.

x=outpost B=your main base -=nothing

x---------------------x----------------------x
-
-
---B----------------------------------x
-
-
-
-
-
x-----------------x-----------------x
-
-
-
By having this LOS, you have more time to prepare for an attack, and you also can pick off some stray units out to raid.
* This technique can also be used with houses, but they have less LOS (I think), and don't have an attack.
-----------------------------------------------------

The third I will talk about is defensive units. Many units are underused, and many of these units are for turtling!

Part 1:

Culverins. Amazing. They out-range all artillery and according to marneus, are like snipers. Culvs also have a huge multiplier VS Artillery. By using culvs, you can take down cannons more efficiently, as 500 resources and 4 pop is better than say, 600 resources and pop (3 hussars), which can't take down artillery as effectively, as a) you have to actually move to his cannon, b) HI can sit around and pick off your horses, and C) the cost/ pop space is less efficient.

Part 2:

Another unit I find very defensive is Ruyters/ Dragoons. Low siege, but they tear apart calv and knock down cannons pretty well too. Not so much underused, but they are definitely defensive. Once again, Low siege and less than a 1x multiplier VS vils, but they eat cav like crazy. What's not to love about these guys?

Part 3:

I also will acknowledge some mercs as defensive. Jaegers have, like LC, low siege, but can outrange any other type of LI. You can just park them in the middle of your towers and fire at any HI trying to take down buildings.

And again-Black Riders, similar to Dragoons, except you have to get them from your home city.
----------------------------------------------------
And now, my fourth and final section, random tips ^^.

Part 1:

-Build your market against the back of your TC, it saves space and provides protection for your TC

-Use minutemen! They have approximately 25 attack, which is plenty to know out a small rush:

-Using walls seems kind of noobish, but whenever I am playing and see that he has walled up, the first thing I think is," Oh crap."

Part 2:

25 attack X 6 minutemen=150 attack per volley. And that doesn't even include the bonus VS sieging units.

-Don't put your rax or stable in front, it will end up being destroyed there. Make it to the side, or even better, right by the TC.

-Oh, and don't forget the counter system. For example, don't attack his raiding Hussars with your Lbows; you will be down protection and resources.

Part 3:

Walls are useful in numerous ways, they prevent raids, they buy time, and you can hide LI and LC behind them to fire at HI and HC without being shot back at.

-As a turtler, expect to lose vils and have to rebuild. It takes an immense amount of skill to turtle your base all the way up. And remember, practice makes perfect.

Now, before I conclude, I will talk about another important aspect to turtling, your deck. You cannot turtle with a rush based deck (go figure). Some cards I recommend for a turtling deck are:

-2 outpost
-4 outpost( if you have it)
-improved buildings
-tons of resource cards, as you wiil most likely not have map control
-extensive fortifications
-jaegars kick ass at beating inf, lands and swiss pikes pwn cav
-any other card centered around improving your eco, defenses, or just helping your turtle overall
-pioneers( with Great Coat & Blunderbuss you can really kick ass with Cdbs ^^)

Sort of random summary of the turtling guide I just wrote. Key points, if you will:
-Use houses, outposts, and wall segments to get LOS throughout the map, as you need to be prepared.
-build markets and houses around your TC or other economic gathering buildings for extra protection.
-use defensive units, such as culvs, LC, and LI. My favorite combination is skirms/dragoons/culvs. With walls and outposts, it's pretty darn hard the enemy to get through.
---------------------------------------------------
Sources I used to gain additional info about turtling:


House Placement, by turbo_supra
Jaafit's Counter Guide, by jaafit
General Tips, by Elpea

Well, there it is, my guide to turtling, while I realize it is very long, congrats if you read it all, took me about an hour to think up and type.

Please feel free to comment on any grammatical or spelling mistakes, I am sure I made at least 100(thank you fenris for the list ^^).

ESO is in sig if you have questions.

Muchas Gracias,
Socr ^^

PS: I may come up with some actual BO using turtling skills I described, if you guys would like. :O

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"

[This message has been edited by socrstar (edited 11-09-2008 @ 12:06 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
Arcane Ranger
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 06:16 PM EDT (US)     1 / 26       
Nice turtling thread, really useful for any turtlers. However, screenshots would be nice.
Marneus Calgar
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 11-06-08 06:19 PM EDT (US)     2 / 26       
culverins outrange all artillery by a HUGE amount. They are like snipers.

Need a quick way to get laid? Chaplain gives you results.
"Screw me if I'm wrong, but haven't we met?"
"Damn girl, you have more curves than a race track."
"Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that name tag was in Braille."
"If I were you, I would have sex with me."
3 reasons I am the sexxyest forumer: Raiding Cav... - China Merc... - Aztecian coloni... <-- howzat?
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 06:19 PM EDT (US)     3 / 26       
Yes, I will have to get on AOE3 scen editor and show examples since the diagrams are difficult to make, as it takes out uneccessary spaces, but as for now, my mom is preventing me from doing so >.<

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"

[This message has been edited by socrstar (edited 11-06-2008 @ 06:22 PM).]

FenrisWulf
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 06:23 PM EDT (US)     4 / 26       
Please feel free to comment on any grammatical or spelling mistakes, I am sure I made at least 5 ^^.
Since you asked:
( and maybe even some more experienced ones as well)
There shouldn't be the space after the first parenthesis and a period after the second one.
The first concept I will cover is house placement( Some of this information is somewhere on ESO, a guide called "House Placement" by turbo supra).
There should be a space after placement and not one after the parenthesis.
A technique used by many players is placing houses around your TC in order to prevent the enemy units frm getting to your TC:
Frm should be from.
The next subject is outposts. I play many people who send thier vils hafway across the map to mine.
Thier should be their and hafway should be halfway.
The wall prevents cav from just running in and smacking away at your vils.
Cav should be calv.
In order to do this, just make an outpost in the desired place, then, once built, use the building's LOS to measure.
An "and" should be added before and.
By using culvs, you can take down cannons more effieciently, as 500 resources and 4 pop is better than say, 600 resources and pop( 3 hussars), which can't take down artillery as effectively, as a) you have to actually move to his cannon, b) HI can sit around and pick off your horses, and C) the cost/ pop space is less efficient.
Effieciently should be spelled efficiently.
Low seige, but they tear apart cav and and knock down cannons pretty well too.
Seige should be siege.
And again-Black Riders, similiar to Dragoons, except you have to get them from your home city.
Similiar should be similar.
For example, don't attack his raiding Hussars with your Lbows, you will be down protection and resoruces.
Resoruces should be resources.

A little more than 5, eh?

Nice guide though!

I love Marneus Calgar more than anyone else at Heavengames!
Accomplishments:
The Run Back Home (for AoM)(4.2),Arrow Key Movement (for AoM), WorldMap v2 (3.1)(for AoE3) Fight for Life RPG (For AoE3)
Work In Progress:
Click Upon an Old Man (30% complete)
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 06:33 PM EDT (US)     5 / 26       
There, I went through and edited all grammitical and spelling errors I made. I had so many I just copy pasted into word ^^

Find an error now Fenris

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"

[This message has been edited by socrstar (edited 11-06-2008 @ 06:34 PM).]

BrianManahan
Banned
posted 11-06-08 06:50 PM EDT (US)     6 / 26       
Find an error now, Fenris. :P
Fixed
Gun_Guy
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 06:54 PM EDT (US)     7 / 26       
Find an error now
"The first concept I will cover is house placement (Some of this information is somewhere on ESO, a guide called "House Placement" by turbo supra)."

Should IMO be changed to:

"The first concept I will cover is house placement (some of this information is aviable somewhere on ESO, in a guide called "House Placement" by turbo supra)."


Anyway, on-topic.

A nice guide, which pretty much covers the basics of turtling (and a little more). I am a seasoned turtler, so I know most of it. :P Though I haven't really used outposts as a measure to gain LOS. Usually I get mine destroyed quite easily, but I guess it has its advantages in certain situations.
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 07:19 PM EDT (US)     8 / 26       
The outposts arent really for defending. If you wanted to use them for defense, put them scattered closely inside your base. This method is more for being prepared and knowing whats going on, as when you are turtling, it may be more diffict to scout since you are so focused on defense.

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"
BrianManahan
Banned
posted 11-06-08 07:24 PM EDT (US)     9 / 26       
Should IMO be changed to:

"The first concept I will cover is house placement (some of this information is aviable somewhere on ESO, in a guide called "House Placement" by turbo supra)."


No, that's a trash sentence. You did not capitalize the S in "Some" and you mispelled "Available."
Marneus Calgar
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 11-06-08 08:41 PM EDT (US)     10 / 26       
fenris, its cavalry not calvary.

look it up. I think calvary is biblical.

Need a quick way to get laid? Chaplain gives you results.
"Screw me if I'm wrong, but haven't we met?"
"Damn girl, you have more curves than a race track."
"Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that name tag was in Braille."
"If I were you, I would have sex with me."
3 reasons I am the sexxyest forumer: Raiding Cav... - China Merc... - Aztecian coloni... <-- howzat?
Arcane Ranger
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 08:57 PM EDT (US)     11 / 26       
Brian, stop fixing for grammatical mistakes. It's more annoying than when other people do it.

As long as you people can get what you're saying, it's useless to edit for grammar.

Also, when you fix, you must bold the text to show what you fixed.

In the "Find an error now, Fenris " The comma is additional and not needed. Since the first phrase isn't a modifier, you do not need a comma. Also, the first phrase is a dependent clause, therefore, it needs a subject. Therefore, the dependent clause and the subject must be connected. "Find an error now" Who or what is finding the error? The "error" noun is a secondary noun, so it does not work.

Also, when using parentheses, the capitalization is not needed because it does not represent the beginning of a sentence.

Know what you're correcting before correcting it.

I might've reasoned wrong, but I'm only 13.

[This message has been edited by Arcane Ranger (edited 11-06-2008 @ 09:00 PM).]

Marneus Calgar
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 11-06-08 09:21 PM EDT (US)     12 / 26       
The sentence, "find an error now", has a subject, and is not dependent. The understood subject is "you". It is an imperative phrase, so the "you" would be redundant.

Need a quick way to get laid? Chaplain gives you results.
"Screw me if I'm wrong, but haven't we met?"
"Damn girl, you have more curves than a race track."
"Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that name tag was in Braille."
"If I were you, I would have sex with me."
3 reasons I am the sexxyest forumer: Raiding Cav... - China Merc... - Aztecian coloni... <-- howzat?
AlejandroLatino4
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 09:27 PM EDT (US)     13 / 26       
not trying to sound like an @$$ but pretty basic will be helpfull for new people though all in all good guide

Cookie,"Orange i dont think you know who you're dealling with," after 5mins to 10mins of war later... Orange,"i dont think you know who ur deallin with"
ESO;AOE3,TWC,& TAD username: Alexodeconqure (i think lol)
<>< Another post done by a fishy noob <><
<>< Alejandro J. Diaz <><
Arcane Ranger
Skirmisher
posted 11-06-08 09:34 PM EDT (US)     14 / 26       
Okay, but then Fenris Wolf is an incomplete thought, therefore, no comma is needed.
A_US_James246
Scenario Reviewer
(id: James246)
posted 11-07-08 01:30 AM EDT (US)     15 / 26       
Nice guide! Well thought out.
Droideka_11
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-08 02:09 AM EDT (US)     16 / 26       
Nice guide sorcstar, better than the unit guide you made.

"Rot's given a free pass simply because he's Rot." - theferret
cheese68
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-08 09:04 AM EDT (US)     17 / 26       
Actually, the sentence would be fine with or without a comma. I love the comma and put it in more places than I perhaps should.

People will always argue about whether:
"I like apples, oranges, and grapes"


should have the comma after oranges.

In this instance I don't, but it is fine to put it in if you want.

Don't you just love the English language?
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 11-07-08 10:46 AM EDT (US)     18 / 26       
Looks good. I can think a better place for this would be in Strategy Central. After all, it's a strategy guide.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-08 11:43 AM EDT (US)     19 / 26       
The wall prevents cav from just running in and smacking away at your vils.
Cav should be calv.
NO NO NO NO NO NO It's CAVaLry, not CALVary, so therefore it is CAV!
-Don't put your rax or stable in front, it will end up being destroyed there. Make it to the side, or even better, right by the TC.
I would suggest putting it towards the back of your base early on so that it is difficult to kill with a rush.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
Marneus Calgar
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 11-07-08 12:59 PM EDT (US)     20 / 26       
@ rich

I said that already. i r cooler than u

Need a quick way to get laid? Chaplain gives you results.
"Screw me if I'm wrong, but haven't we met?"
"Damn girl, you have more curves than a race track."
"Oh, I'm sorry, I thought that name tag was in Braille."
"If I were you, I would have sex with me."
3 reasons I am the sexxyest forumer: Raiding Cav... - China Merc... - Aztecian coloni... <-- howzat?
Dabottle
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-08 02:31 PM EDT (US)     21 / 26       
what about (Some of this information is somewhere on AOE3Heaven, a guide called "House Placement" by turbo supra)

On topic: Nice guide

ESO Name: Dabottle
Rank:20 - Second Lieutenant
Clan: TSR (The Soul Reapers)
Civs: Britain, China, France and Sioux
Check out my-->Guide to China (Will update soon)
ROFL

[This message has been edited by DaBottle (edited 11-07-2008 @ 02:31 PM).]

socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-08 05:40 PM EDT (US)     22 / 26       
Crap. I got all the pics for the guide but the aoe memory is full. Have to get `em another time. But they are coming, I promise!

Off Topic: Why do you guys care so much about my grammar? Lol.

Sorda on topic but not really oh whatever: About how much memory does one picture from the editor take?

BTW, I edited the guide. I added a summary at the end, fixed some grammar, and in general just made it look nicer.

Thanks

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"

[This message has been edited by socrstar (edited 11-07-2008 @ 05:54 PM).]

Gun_Guy
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-08 07:41 PM EDT (US)     23 / 26       
With picture from the editor I suppose you mean a screenshot? The size varies, depending on your graphics setup. With a resolution of 1680x1050 (and all settings on maximum) the individual frame processed by the GPU is around 5,5MB, uncompressed. Screenshots, however, are saved as .jpeg files, and the filezise is mch lower (around 240kB for me).

What do you mean by "AoE memory"?
evil_live_vile
Skirmisher
posted 11-07-08 08:59 PM EDT (US)     24 / 26       
Just a question ON TOPIC about walling. is it worth using walls in a map like gp or mongolia where there are very few if any choke points or using the resources on a defensive army?
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-08 01:06 AM EDT (US)     25 / 26       
@gun guy: I'm not sure, but it said the aoe disk has no free space, so I had to delete some old stuff. Dunno.

@evil_live_vile: I can't really help you with Mongolia, I assume that is a TAD map, and I play nilla. Anyhow, you really don't want to waste your time on walling yourself comepletly in, that is frustrating and other things require micro. Instead, you can use the natives and random little ponds to minimize the amount of walling you need.

And remember, buildings can't beat units, you should ALWAYS have a defensive army when turtling, as 7 outposts, a fort, and 2-3 TC fires is not enough to take down armies ( and that is the most defensive you can get).

Edited again, added a Good Turtling Card Section.

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"
FenrisWulf
Skirmisher
posted 11-08-08 10:17 AM EDT (US)     26 / 26       
fenris, its cavalry not calvary.

look it up. I think calvary is biblical.
Dang! You're right! I never knew that. Not only have I been mispelling cavalry all of my life, but I've also been mispronouncing it.

On topic: Great guide! I really wish you could put up some pictures, but it's also good as it is.

I love Marneus Calgar more than anyone else at Heavengames!
Accomplishments:
The Run Back Home (for AoM)(4.2),Arrow Key Movement (for AoM), WorldMap v2 (3.1)(for AoE3) Fight for Life RPG (For AoE3)
Work In Progress:
Click Upon an Old Man (30% complete)

[This message has been edited by FenrisWulf (edited 11-08-2008 @ 10:18 AM).]

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