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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Expert AI
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Topic Subject:Expert AI
TwentyLemon
Skirmisher
posted 02-01-09 11:47 PM EDT (US)         
For those that don't know, experts get a huge handicap.
Moderate collect 65% of your speed. Might be 75%.
Hard collects 100%, ie same speed as your vils.
Expert gets 150%, ie 1.5 times faster than you.

I tend to dominate hard computers. 2vs1 I can still win, it's tough at first, but I'll eventually and usually win.
But, I get destroyed 1vs1 against an expert.
Can anyone beat the expert AI, 1vs1? For K&B I'm planning to alter the expert level so it's a challenge for top players instead of a slaughter like it is for me. So. I'm thinking about lowering their handicap, and upping the number of vils they train to 80/90, instead of 70.
I'm just wondering about the actual skill level of the top players, can anyone consistently win, 1vs1, with a not-so OP civ, since the civs will (hopefully) be balanced.
If you can't/don't win, what do you think the handicap should be lowered to so that it's a tough fight.
AuthorReplies:
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 02-02-09 00:12 AM EDT (US)     1 / 14       
the trick to take down expert is to rush super fast before their 150% stronger eco starts kicking ass (more vills they get the stronger their eco is to yours) you need to aim at their vills since think of every 2 of their vills like 3 of yours.

either rush them, or just do a bunch of cav and raid them (they only start running when you start attacking villagers). Because of this being russia and economically ffing for oprinchks usually will do the trick since they don't protect vills very well. Also they tend to group army in the center of the map, so sending about 10 oprinchks to the AI's town is pretty much gg.

Also remember to counter as well as possible since the AI just makes random units i think. It's lollable when they spam veteran pikes at gendarmes

QUACK

[This message has been edited by CrazyLunatic (edited 02-02-2009 @ 00:13 AM).]

Eternal War0
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-09 01:14 AM EDT (US)     2 / 14       
Yeah but that's because Pikes are a theoretical counter to Gendarmes. Sure they aren't really because they get totally slaughtered by the AOE isn't that creative.

They don't realise you should use units as a meatshield while Dragoons pound on Cav.

Oh and your situation sounds the same as me. I can handle hard pretty well but even trying the IOR on Vanilla can end badly against an expert. I'd imagine the top tier players like Iamgrunt would be able to win rather easily.
iTech64
Scenario Reviewer
posted 02-02-09 01:16 AM EDT (US)     3 / 14       
its simply, do my Semi-FF
computers decide that even if they have an army of units 10 feet from your town, if you hit one villager, they send their whole army at that hussar.

so run around messing with all his villagers and killing them off will give you plenty of time to boom and win

iTech64
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As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 02-02-09 07:50 AM EDT (US)     4 / 14       
KILLAKLAHN and I used to do a lot of 2v2 expert compstomps and rush the comps together with some success. It works best with Otto/Russia or Otto/Brits, but theoretically can be done with any civ that gets an early cav shipment and/or good HI. The key is to get their resource production down to your level, and then simply outmaneuver them. Killing vills, forcing them to garrison, attacking the TC, etc. works equally well.

There's no secret military handicap, if you're wondering how the comp can get so many units by 6 or 7 mins just look at their decks. They randomly cram any and all military shipments into each slot. Their eco can give them lots of early mercs, which is potentially strong, but they will often send the wrong type and use them poorly - 3 unguarded Li'l Bombards trudging across the map, that sort of thing. (Everybody knows the AI is dumb)

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
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Valckrie1
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 02-02-09 02:18 PM EDT (US)     5 / 14       
If you hit one of their villagers, they all tend to garrison sometimes...

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Lord_Sami
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-09 02:24 PM EDT (US)     6 / 14       
Just make walls and use RI. Also sniping their settlers always works. Musks kill pretty much all enemy AI units.

BTW has anyone noticed how they tend to get a batch of units out of a building right before the building is destroyed?

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Droideka_11
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-09 04:12 PM EDT (US)     7 / 14       
Here's some advice...play Human players, its much more fun

1. Humans make mistakes
2. Humans are less predictable
3. Humans make you rise in rank

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Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-09 04:14 PM EDT (US)     8 / 14       
The expert ai is easy beatable if you rush or ff him. I used to go for late game against experts, but they always have the tendency to make a shitload of cannons what plays really annoying. But late game they are also easy to defeat.

It gets difficult when you are up against 2 experts, then you need some luck in the beginning, but it can be done

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TwentyLemon
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-09 04:38 PM EDT (US)     9 / 14       
All right. People can beat the experts, but everyone thinks they are dumb.
I guess that's another goal. More intelligent AI. I was planning on adding in a lot of the strategies posted here, reworked for certain K&B civs, just to try to make the AI more random and more human.
Tyler McIntosh
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-09 04:38 PM EDT (US)     10 / 14       
Expert AI only has good eco later on, so hit them hard early and take out there vills and some important buidlings and you will win, I always beat the expert comp.
Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 02-02-09 05:24 PM EDT (US)     11 / 14       
Expert comps aren't too good if you do some tricks.

1. If you attack one of their vils, they all run. Harass their eco constantly so the boost doesn't help them too much.

2. Hit-and-run works incredibly well because their army will chase you all across the map just to reach your faster units, which they can't do.

3. Strike fast and hard. It doesn't even have to be a rush. Once I did a fast-revolt against two expert comps and beat both of them.

4. Comps don't take advantage of the water much. You can easily get control of it and use it to your advantage.

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As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 02-02-09 06:38 PM EDT (US)     12 / 14       
MosheLevi linked to a study someone did comparing "conservative" AI vs. "aggressive" AI vs. "erratic/error-prone" AI modes in RTS games. The result was surprising - "erratic" AI posted as many or more wins vs. human players as more logically based AI. IN particular the erratic AI would overestimate or underestimate its own eco capacity and either go for sudden death, or turtle up in unexpected ways and times. The randomness probably threw people off and nullified their "tricks" they used to consistently beat a more logical AI.

See if you can introduce some sort of random element into whether the AI is aggressive, conservative, etc.

Also see if there's a way to make the AI scout the water and fishboom intelligently.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
MosheLevi
Scenario Contest Winner
posted 02-02-09 11:44 PM EDT (US)     13 / 14       
MosheLevi linked to a study someone did comparing "conservative" AI vs. "aggressive" AI vs. "erratic/error-prone" AI modes in RTS games.
It wasn’t me who posted that information.
Unfortunately I can’t remember who it was.

Regarding “Expert” AI, early or even late colonial rush can beat expert AI simply because the AI doesn’t train army units fast enough.
The AI will attack with large armies (50-100 units) only in late game and even then most of its units won’t be upgraded.

For those of you who want to play a fun long challenging game against Expert AI, I would suggest playing a boom/turtle strategy with the British.
Your economy will be almost as good as the Expert AI’s and you will be able to have a fun late game with large armies battling it out.
General_II
Skirmisher
posted 02-03-09 00:05 AM EDT (US)     14 / 14       
Neurotic AI = Success

Not really enough studies to be conclusive, but still an interesting, quick read on the AoM AI's use of Odin.
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