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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » All-round Worst Civilization?
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Topic Subject:All-round Worst Civilization?
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bobtheboy
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 06:59 PM EDT (US)         
This list is of the civilizations from best to worst IN MY OPINION, and the reasons why they are so ranked:

1. Japanese- [Exalted] Ashigaru spam is really hard to defeat; shrines produce all the resources you'll ever need
2. British- Not really a civ for spamming; artillery, cavalry and infantry are all very strong
3. French- Coureur des Bois are fast gatherers; can have 3 forts
4. Spanish- Another all-round good civ
5. Indian- Pretty strong civilization
6. Dutch- Banks are very good at gathering coin
7. Iroquois- [Legendary] Field Cannons are good, and they have strong infantry and cavalry; this is the best native civ, but native civs have no walls, which is a setback
8. Portuguese- Great ships but land units are not that great
9. Sioux- All native ships get killed easily by European ships; no artillery or walls
10. Russian- [Imperial] Halberdier spam is almost endless, but if they get into late game the Russians get owned
11. Chinese- All round not a great civ
12. Ottoman- The only reason they aren't lower is because they can train spies in age 1
13. German- All round pretty weak civ
14. Aztecs- Only infantry? WTF?

What does your list look like?
AuthorReplies:
O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 07:24 PM EDT (US)     1 / 30       
ok... well some corrections.

1. Aztecs dont REALLY have all inf. Their coyote runners and eagle runners count as cavalry.

2. Dont base things on RG units and late game stuff. Most games wont get that far. (like how you mentioned 3 forts and imperial and exalted), it wont usually happen.

My list....

1. Japs - obvious
2. Aztecs - i hate how they out mass russia with better units :/
3. Iro - obvious
4. India - obvious
5. Sioux - BR laming without FP :P
6. Russia - loving those cossack cards
7. Ottoman - i will always think autospawning vils are good, no matter how much slower they build.
8. British - Midcore
9. French - Obvious
10. Ports - i love em but SO HARD TO BALANCE
11. Dutch - Midcore
12. German - uhlans are nice but... thats really all. bonus become almost nothing in time.
13. Spain - eh.
14. and chinaaaa. I hate banner armies.

8-11 are tie

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
Marneus Calgar
Veteran Musketeer (Content Contributor)
posted 05-14-09 08:02 PM EDT (US)     2 / 30       
Aztecs and germans should not be low. They are extrememly powerful, with or without the fanpatch. Have you actually given aztecs a chance? Coyote runners are not classified as infantry, they are "light infantry" that act the same way as cavalry.

Also, exalted ashi spam isn't as hard to defeat as a colonial one, because japans units don't have the potential to train as fast as other civs in lategame.

Also, why would you ever want 3 forts in your deck? 1 maybe, others waste of space.

Also, Spanish in Asian dynasties are extrememly weak without the fanpatch. Their most powerful strat, FF, was nerfed as the unit cards were decreased in the number of units they gave.

Also, not having walls is only a setback late game. Do you only play treaty? It seems that way from your other thread.

Souix are not weak. They hae a powerful rush.

Also
10. Russian- [Imperial] Halberdier spam is almost endless, but if they get into late game the Russians get owned
????

You can only get imperial halbs instantly IN lategame....

Ottoman have a powerful rush and are fairly balanced.

Do you play online? If you do, what is you ELO/PR just wondering. You seem to base most of your conclusions on lategame situations where everything is imperial.

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bobtheboy
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 09:01 PM EDT (US)     3 / 30       
To Marneus Calgar:
I sometimes play online but what is ELO/PR?
And why would you not want 3 forts? What else would you use your cards for? Fort & Factory are probably the best cards in the game.

(I meant extremely late game).
TwentyLemon
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 09:06 PM EDT (US)     4 / 30       
elo: elo rating. ELO is more commonly known as chess rating for some reason, even though chess rating is an elo rating style. Anyways. elorating.com
PR is player rating. It's the rating that ESO2 gives you (major, captain, sergeant...).

Late game cards are better used for econ upgrades. The two 25% upgrade cards are priceless.

Anyways. Imo Russia are one of the top tier. India and Japan obviously. Sioux are up there as well. Just all the top rushes. France is in there, all around balanced. Everyone else is mid tier. Dutch is a little UP. Ports as well.

[This message has been edited by TwentyLemon (edited 05-14-2009 @ 09:09 PM).]

StrategicJoeL
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 09:19 PM EDT (US)     5 / 30       
Ports aren't UP, they're a great civ. Just not OP. You just need to know how to use them though, or they will suck. If Ports are UP then how can you explain a complete noob like me getting a 47% win percentage on nilla by only using Portugal?

organ gunz are chuck norris daddy!
bobtheboy
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 09:23 PM EDT (US)     6 / 30       
btw I never play treaty unless there's no other games going on
in 1 player i play 8 player FFA expert
O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 09:43 PM EDT (US)     7 / 30       
um you were noob bashing? and map laming? dingdingding???

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
StrategicJoeL
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 09:53 PM EDT (US)     8 / 30       
the map laming was only in TWC, and only six games

as for the noob bashing, I've only played 17 games on nilla so far, and 21 on TWC. I don't think a noob can do "noob-bashing" rofl. Most of my games were against sergeants too if I remember correctly.

organ gunz are chuck norris daddy!
Lord Berminator
Skirmisher
posted 05-14-09 10:14 PM EDT (US)     9 / 30       
Lol no offence bob, but you might wanna get some online experience before talkin bout stuff like this. Lemme make a few comments-

Forts really aren't all that powerful
Both Aztecs and the Iroquois have walls, and Iro cav isn't that great
Sioux can spam water canoes like there's no tomorrow, the fact they have no walls or artillery is made up by the fact they have insane cav for raiding and don't need houses
Germ's uhlans are superb raiders; they aren't a weak civ at all
Russians don't always get owned late game, plus they can spam halbs just as well as musks and strelets, and I think they can spam cav pretty well too
Aztecs-again, just how the Sioux's lack of walls and artillery is made up by certain qualities, the Aztec's "infantry" is also extremely powerful (coyote runners are really light cav, ERKs are ranged cav, and arrow knighrts serve as brilliant artillery units) Aztecs also have a kickass navy due to Tlalocs. And warrior priests are godly (no pun intended)

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[This message has been edited by Lord Berminator (edited 05-14-2009 @ 10:14 PM).]

Timerover
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 01:18 AM EDT (US)     10 / 30       
Each player is going to have his/her own views on which is the worst civilization based on how well they have played or been beaten by a given civilization. That in turned is based on their playing style, temperament, knowledge of and skill level with a civilization.

I do not play online, so my experience and views are based on my play against the computer. I am on Macintosh, so I cannot play on ESO, and I do not care to play on Gameranger.

For me, my worst civilization is the Aztecs. Reason: I cannot bring myself to play them, given my historical knowledge of the civilization. I do keep running into them as opponents, and keep giving thought to removing some of the more obnoxious taunts from the mp3 library.

Best Civilization for Water Maps: The Dutch, although I am a bit biased by being of Dutch background. Worst Civilization for Water Maps: the Iroquois, mainly because of very limited ships, which I do not have a problem with.

Best Civilization for Land Maps: The Russians, not sure why that is, but I just do best on a land map with them. Worst Civilization for Land Maps: The Sioux, as I do not do well handling cavalry, much more an infantry type of guy.

Of the Asian civilizations, the Japanese are badly and the Indians are somewhat overpowered, although the Indians do have access to the Portuguese expeditionary fleet ironclad, which I do like to use. I like the Chinese the best, and enjoy using them, except that I am still not comfortable with the Chinese monks.

Of the rest of the civilizations, I have played them all, with the only one that I am not a fan of being the Ottomans, and their automatic villager production. I find that most annoying. The galley is nice however, and I need to determine a way for the Spanish to produce it as well as the Ottomans. The French also used galleys up into the 1700s in the Mediterranean.

I should also mention that I am not into rushing, and my style of play focuses much more on building a strong economic base.

Nail to the mast her holy flag,
Set every threadbare sail,
And give her to the god of storms,
The lightning and the gale!
MannisEi
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 06:39 AM EDT (US)     11 / 30       
Most of my games were against sergeants
Sergeants are noobs
From my experience, majority of master sergeants are too. 2nd lieuts start being somewhat good, like myself.

O o
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| ITS OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!!!
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A_US_James246
Scenario Reviewer
(id: James246)
posted 05-15-09 07:49 AM EDT (US)     12 / 30       
Ports aren't UP, they're a great civ. Just not OP. You just need to know how to use them though, or they will suck.
I completely agree. Ports are just so OP that they need to be nerfed. That Minute Men rush is just way too powerful.

/sarcasm
Lord_Sami
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 08:17 AM EDT (US)     13 / 30       
"Sergeants are noobs
From my experience, majority of master sergeants are too. 2nd lieuts start being somewhat good, like myself."

You can have many opinions about that. Mine is that captain + (vanilla) are somewhat good.

To Joel the good players might be master sergeants and so, in time he will think like: "ah, noobs"

'09 Match Of Death Winner

My elorating

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 05-15-09 08:37 AM EDT (US)     14 / 30       
Japan and India, because they were so unbalanced as to make it necessary to divide the community with a fan patch. I still can't get my mates to download and use the patch. It's not that they are 10-10 lamers or something. It's because they are opposed to the idea of having to mess with their game.

Ottos, for the same reason, on nilla. I used to like doing IOR and cheesing out a win. For about three months, anyway. Then it got boring as hell and the problem was, other people were still doing it. Yes, it needs fixed. I will say the same for a nilla fan patch as I did above - most of my buddies won't bother.

Crunkatog on ESO
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Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
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StrategicJoeL
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 10:50 AM EDT (US)     15 / 30       
Sergeants are noobs
From my experience, majority of master sergeants are too. 2nd lieuts start being somewhat good, like myself.
so you're saying that you're just one step above a noob? that's only two PR points of a difference. or is it that you actually are good at the game and... [metaphore]once I hit 2nd leut in nilla, I magically shed my noob cocoon and become a butterfly that totally rox at the game? Once I aquire the majic 2 PR points, I will acquire new and unusual powers of pwnage?[/metaphore]

organ gunz are chuck norris daddy!

[This message has been edited by StrategicJoeL (edited 05-15-2009 @ 10:52 AM).]

MannisEi
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 11:15 AM EDT (US)     16 / 30       
Well, somehow sadly many master sergs I have seen still dont have a clue of herding or micro. I yesterday fought a french player who brought all his coureurs to fight with his army, and even when I overwhelmed him by maaany units, he didnt even try to save those villagers.
But yea, maybe I have been just bad luck and encountered all the noob master sergs and overskilled 2nd lieuts.

O o
/Ż/___________________________ _ __/
| ITS OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!!!
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Incognoto
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 12:34 PM EDT (US)     17 / 30       
Rofl at Mannis. People start to get "somewhat" good when they become captains or majors. Lt's are just as nooby as sgts. But they're just pixelpoints.

Anyway, there is no worst civ, there's only the best one, and it's the French.
Lord_Sami
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 03:02 PM EDT (US)     18 / 30       
Rofl at Mannis Dude maybe 30 of 100 liutenants know how to herd (honestly). Being a liutenant is almost the same as being a master sergeant. Many people don't see the importance of microing, and therefore they don't micro. But microing becomes better and better when practised.

I agree with Incognoto, when getting to captain + almost every player knows how to micro and herd.

And to the topic itself, if we are talking about tad, i would have to say SPANISH. Because, they're ff is useless in tad, and even the "viable" xbow spam loses to 8 civs or so.

In vanilla the worst civ has to be ports, they can defend well but that's all. There is no one "worst" civilisation, each civ has their benefits. But portugal is one of the weakest. But the strong point with the civ is, that no one really knows how to counter them, because many people don't play them.

MANNIS-> Muuten, mikä sun AoE3 accon nimi on? (In english = btw, what's your AoE3 account name)

'09 Match Of Death Winner

My elorating

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake. -Napoleon
Emperor_Kyle
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 03:50 PM EDT (US)     19 / 30       
Meh, have to critique some things first...

1. Aztecs do have cavalry-type units, but that was already clarified.

2. The Iroquois can build walls, as well as the Aztecs. Sioux are the only native civ that lacks walls.

3. Iroquois and Aztecs both have great navies that can overpower any Euro or Asian navy because of the water dance at the fire pit.

4. Russia's late-game is great. Halberd spam should be the least of your worries.

5. Spies in age 1 isn't much of an advantage...You usually don't have 125 gold to spend at that point anyway.

My list would probably look like this:

1. Iroquois - People can whine about Japan and India all they want, but I cannot stand the Iroquois BB rush.
2. Aztecs - Similar story here...
3. Japan - Once their economy gets chugging, they can abuse Bushido Principles for major ownage.
4. India - 10/10 is crazy, and zamburak spams in team games are nearly unstoppable.
5. Russia - Sickeningly fast rush, and oprichniks are little devils...
6. French - All-around good civ, no problems with them.
7. China - Ridiculous unit mass once they get going.
8. British - Great early eco.
9. Germans - Good all-around with a decent rush, but not as much so as France.
10. Dutch - Ridiculously good eco as the game progresses, if they last that long.
11. Sioux - Decent rush, but infantry is too weak.
12. Spanish - Not much special stuff going for them, but they can still pull off some decent rushes and FFs.
13. Ottomans - They just aren't as good as they used to be. Rush is easier to beat, and eco is kinda lame.
14. Portuguese - It's terribly hard to survive as Ports, they just don't have much going for them.

ESO2: Kyle_The_Brave
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[This message has been edited by Emperor_Kyle (edited 05-15-2009 @ 03:54 PM).]

MannisEi
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 04:06 PM EDT (US)     20 / 30       
MANNIS-> Muuten, mikä sun AoE3 accon nimi on?

Noo you are going to spy me
Yea I know I really brag over my skills and many times speak before I think but I just cant get it off Im a bad person.

...No Im not. My eso is Balalenzon. Why do you want to know that?

O o
/Ż/___________________________ _ __/
| ITS OVER NINE THOUSAAAAAAAAAAND!!!
\_\ŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻŻ Ż ŻŻ

[This message has been edited by MannisEi (edited 05-15-2009 @ 04:39 PM).]

Incognoto
Skirmisher
posted 05-15-09 04:49 PM EDT (US)     21 / 30       
O_man0
Skirmisher
posted 05-16-09 02:34 PM EDT (US)     22 / 30       
Since when did Mannis get to 2nd lieut?!?!?

I thought he was like lance XD

So...

Incorrect. I think almost all lieuts and even MS know how to herd, and honestly microing isnt that tough either.

I know that the vanilla population is less experienced for rank but if your there you should know it and do it.

1st Leiut. with Russia , Master Sergeant with everything else.
My skill level is incalculable!!! Its been forever since I played seriously...
Mike Sass: Culverins are like Garrichistos, only theyre cannons.
Jeagle
Skirmisher
posted 05-17-09 01:25 AM EDT (US)     23 / 30       
I know how to herd and I'm only a private :P



...I had a bad losing streak

But I don't have much time w/ school and sometimes I have to leave in the middle of games. And I never said I was any good

And I don't play much. I just like the forums
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-17-09 01:55 AM EDT (US)     24 / 30       
Well, somehow sadly many master sergs I have seen still dont have a clue of herding or micro. I yesterday fought a french player who brought all his coureurs to fight with his army, and even when I overwhelmed him by maaany units, he didnt even try to save those villagers.
But yea, maybe I have been just bad luck and encountered all the noob master sergs and overskilled 2nd lieuts.
actually in his VOD, damnit joined about 10 CdB with his main army to attack and won...

IMO everyone has a different interpretation of what ranks are classified as noobs and what are not (Most of the time the cut of is right where you are since most people don't want to think of themselves as noobs )

QUACK
ChrisTheMean
Skirmisher
posted 05-17-09 03:28 AM EDT (US)     25 / 30       
I hate to say it, as I like playing ports, but they seem to have the lowest win # week after week (like 42%, just worse than spanish) on the supremacy stats. Either only noobs play them (myself included ), or they actually do suck a bit...
http://www.agecommunity.com/player_stats_yp.aspx
see for yourself, the numbers don't lie

ESO:ChrisTheMean
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[This message has been edited by christhemean (edited 05-17-2009 @ 03:40 AM).]

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