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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Dutch 2nd TC?
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Topic Subject:Dutch 2nd TC?
jollyranchers
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 00:44 AM EDT (US)         
I know multiple TCs are very important for eco, but I've also seen dutch players only have 1 tc. Does Dutch need 2 TCs? It seems like I need food and wood a lot in fortress, and a 2nd tc would help get vils to get them. But I also played with a partner who had only 1 tc and outboomed me like crazy with dutch. I guess he built banks earlier than me.
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Myll_Erik
Seraph Emeritus
posted 02-14-10 01:55 AM EDT (US)     1 / 12       
Dutch is all about banks - sooner the better in most cases. Though, should you ever find you have the extra wood a 2nd TC is up there in the things to do category.

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Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 02-14-10 05:16 AM EDT (US)     2 / 12       
A Dutch player has already heavily invested in his eco before he has reached Fortress by building banks. In age 3 that investment has to pay off, so you have really mass units.

By doing so, you'll need a lot of wood (2nd stable, art foundry, houses for all that military pop). So there is no way that you'll have wood to spare.

Your first shipments in age 3 are Ruyter, skirm, cav upgrade shipments. Also 1000 gold can be handy when you want to spam falcs.

Maybe after those cards you can send 1000 wood, which you can use to build your second TC. If you do so, you have to use that TC for gaining map control over some hunts/mines. That's more important than getting those extra vills!

Why? Because by this time you have already 30+ vills and you can only make 50 vills. So 600 wood is a big invest for only a few extra vills.

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X_omni_X
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 08:38 AM EDT (US)     3 / 12       
Banks are much more effective than getting an extra tc. And by the time you would max out your bank amount it won't even be really worth while to put up a second town center (because of that 50 villager limit).

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jollyranchers
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 09:22 AM EDT (US)     4 / 12       
Ok I hear ya. Few more questions:

1. Should I build 8 banks at the cost of speed reduction?

2. how many vils should I have before I age up to fortress? To industrial?

3. Why is dutch vil pop only 50? I think banks are 4.5 vils, so 6 banks is only 27 vils. 27+50 = 77, which is much less than other civs?
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 02-14-10 10:31 AM EDT (US)     5 / 12       
1. Should I build 8 banks at the cost of speed reduction?
If the game drags on for a very long time, yes. Otherwise, no.

Never do it in Fortress, your Ruyters will get too slow. They already have crappy range which makes it harder to avoid melee confrontation with cav, with a slower speed you will definitely get meleed. And ranged cav lose to heavy cav in melee.
2. how many vils should I have before I age up to fortress? To industrial?
Tbh, I never pay attention to that. In colonial I just go for 3 (or 4) banks and then age up ASAP.

You want the game to be decided in Fortress, only go to Industrial when you can't through the defences of your opponent and you have a lot of resources to spare. But you won't face this situation too often, most of the time it's better to just pump out some falcs or something.
3. Why is dutch vil pop only 50? I think banks are 4.5 vils, so 6 banks is only 27 vils. 27+50 = 77, which is much less than other civs?
You said yourself already that you can get 8 banks

And you can get another 2 from your capitol in Imperial if you play TAD.

But yes, Dutch have a weak late game eco compared to other Euro civs, even worse than you make it to be. Because 1 bank is worth 4.5 unupgraded vills, but you have vill upgrade cards that boost vill production with 25%, while banks only have 1 upgrade card that boost their rate with 15%.

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"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato
Mariomasta RJK
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 11:51 AM EDT (US)     6 / 12       
In most games, ull never reach the point in which your lategame Eco will be worse than ure opponent. And they are right, a second tc is normally a waste of rss unless that area has allot of res, the tc used as both to spawn vils and function as an outpost. Otherwise it is just useless compared to bank booming. Both the Brits, Dutch, and ports you never want to build a second tc.

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Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 12:23 PM EDT (US)     7 / 12       
use the tc to gain map control. But a 2nd and 3rd tc arent top priority for your boom.

And going industrial with dutch can be quite good actually, heavy cannons own and 150 pop army lets u have enough pop space. Also the 20 musk from church tech are certainly worthwhile. But as dutch always try to end the game midgame if possible

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jonesk
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 01:49 PM EDT (US)     8 / 12       
Isn't it 30 musk

some noob: Still - You need to use correct punctuation and grammar if it's going to be excepted.
Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 03:27 PM EDT (US)     9 / 12       
yeah could be

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Mariomasta RJK
Skirmisher
posted 02-14-10 07:01 PM EDT (US)     10 / 12       
are they guard or vet musks?

DISTISOP
ESO: Blitzkrieg_Mario
Prefered civs: Hell, I like them all.
Rank: TWC PR 18 (master sergeant) TAD PR 17, Vanilla PR 12

Clan: Triple Entente
Favorite games: Dofus, AoE 3, Tremulous, CoD 4, SSBB, Urban Terror
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 02-14-10 07:20 PM EDT (US)     11 / 12       
since it's in industrial they naturally are guard musks...

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Mariomasta RJK
Skirmisher
posted 02-15-10 03:42 PM EDT (US)     12 / 12       
Wow that seems a bit OP then...

DISTISOP
ESO: Blitzkrieg_Mario
Prefered civs: Hell, I like them all.
Rank: TWC PR 18 (master sergeant) TAD PR 17, Vanilla PR 12

Clan: Triple Entente
Favorite games: Dofus, AoE 3, Tremulous, CoD 4, SSBB, Urban Terror
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