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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » General Discussions » Dutch vs France
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Topic Subject:Dutch vs France
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 00:36 AM EDT (US)         
Who has the advantage, and why?

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"

[This message has been edited by socrstar (edited 08-20-2011 @ 00:37 AM).]

AuthorReplies:
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 08-20-11 02:37 AM EDT (US)     1 / 23       
French.

If French pushes in colonial with hussar/musk + maybe xbow shipment while getting good CDB/market eco than Dutch can never age.

In colonial French eco is about Dutch eco, but French has much better combo.

If France doesn't do it right in colonial and both teams age unharmed it's about 50-50.

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato
pramit
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 02:45 AM EDT (US)     2 / 23       
bow pike wins

I no longer play aoe3 actively. In fact, I no longer play any video game. That's how lame I've become.
skype - pramit57
"Life is a void and void is truth"
GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 04:40 AM EDT (US)     3 / 23       
The Dutch wont have enough time to get the bank econ going before the french pushes. Also he has superior villagers and a better than dutch econ ( if the dutch has only 1 bank or less ) and the French has far more variety to change his units

Xbows
Pikes
Musks
Hussar

Anyways I never play French

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
Huggels
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 06:01 AM EDT (US)     4 / 23       
agree with pramit. think of it this way. if dutch build back and french use the same resources to get more bow pike, and takes the initiative then dutch are in trouble.
Jerom
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 06:40 AM EDT (US)     5 / 23       
Id give france a 60% chance. Dutch can hold off musk huss pretty easily and age up in decent state though, but some outmicroage required. If France decides to age up with a musk huss army its about 50/50
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 10:36 AM EDT (US)     6 / 23       
( if the dutch has only 1 bank or less )
What Dutch player makes 1 bank and calls it quits? Lol.

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 08-20-11 11:58 AM EDT (US)     7 / 23       
Bow/pike is easy to defeat.

Musk/hussar/xbow is almost impossible at equal skill/micro level.

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato
Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 01:12 PM EDT (US)     8 / 23       
france has advantage though on nilla its closer and i think its 50/50

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
pramit
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 01:27 PM EDT (US)     9 / 23       
Bow/pike is easy to defeat.
2
i lose 100% of my games as dutch vs french bow pike
the only chance you can have is if french gets bad hunts(then hopefully you can raid him). Else the op spama + lack of dutch musk will get you. Even if you hold off the first wave and manage to get to fortress(which is suicide if french attacks immediately after), you will eventually lose :P

anyway, if you think you can still beat french bow pike as dutch,i'd love to play with you?

I no longer play aoe3 actively. In fact, I no longer play any video game. That's how lame I've become.
skype - pramit57
"Life is a void and void is truth"
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 08-20-11 01:46 PM EDT (US)     10 / 23       
Who needs musk vs xbow/pike when hussar/skirm is a perfect counter.

French going xbow/pike or hussar semi has never scared me, french going musk/hussar/xbow is simply not doable.

I don't play much these days but if I'm ever online I'm happy to play this MU.

EDIT: According to simple ELO I'm 13-3 on TAD and 10-3 on Nilla as Dutch vs France.

That's how many people play France wrong.

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato

[This message has been edited by Ha_Luke (edited 08-20-2011 @ 01:48 PM).]

CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 08-20-11 01:51 PM EDT (US)     11 / 23       
luke is right skirm+hussar is very strong vs xbow pike

QUACK
Jerom
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 02:08 PM EDT (US)     12 / 23       
then germany would rape dutch super hard
GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 02:22 PM EDT (US)     13 / 23       
The only drawback to Dutch colonial to German is Ulhans
In Nilla all 3 german infantry is killed by the skirmisher if used correctly.

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
Jerom
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 02:36 PM EDT (US)     14 / 23       
luke u go Huss/pike vs huss semi ?

Also you dont even need much hussars, imo making more than 15 units is already risky because you might have to face some huss which would suck. Skirm range abuse with maybe a 3 huss shipment to raid and to use after all pikes are dead is good enough to beat XBow/Pike
Bart331
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 03:26 PM EDT (US)     15 / 23       
tbh as dutch if you play the match correctly you will have to start defensive skirm/pike.

bow/pike rush sux if u get hit n runned by skirm opening, it only works vs dutch cav start (thats one of the reason dutch shouldnt start cav)

strongest play from french is musk/huss spam and do a timing puhs, if dutch has build base correctly u cannot do this since u will loose everything, then u need aging and keeping pressure putting him off resources this should give france a victory in age3.

SUNIL IS NUB!!!

Battle.net:Bart (227)
ESO:Bart331
RomanLegion
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 04:55 PM EDT (US)     16 / 23       
If the French leave the Dutch alone for them to put up all their banks and produce all their settlers so they can over pop settlers with the settlers/ruyters polition, the Dutch have a slight advantage. By the time the unbothered Dutch player has made it to industrial, they can normally age strait to imperial. Imperial upgrades roast industrial players. (50% all gather rates, spies, blockade, and not metion the unit upgrades...)

But if the Dutch player is rushed 1 vs 1, French win.

Strength in Disipline...
...Disipline in Strength.
GodofSquishy
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 05:45 PM EDT (US)     17 / 23       
Erm. Would a Dutchie wait until industrial to max vills?
And would a Frenchie do the same?

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Belts off, trowsers down
Ain't life a scream!
ztejas
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 08:10 PM EDT (US)     18 / 23       
You aren't going to get to imperial age in a 1v1, honestly maybe like 1 in 300 games? Even if you do, 8000 resources plus 2000 resource upgrades is ridiculous.

Even with full banks and maxed villies french have a better eco.

French has better colonial army, pretty equal eco, more fortress flexibility, I think Dutch is at a disadvantage against France, although it can always go either way.

France isn't better, neither as Dutch, but they are different and I think France has more advantages.

GodofSquishy: Did somebody say LANCERS?! O.o
GodofSquishy: Opris suck at veteren level for siege
socrstar
Skirmisher
posted 08-20-11 08:33 PM EDT (US)     19 / 23       
@GodofSquishy: Usually you wanna max vils asap, which if you do tends to happen in fortress. H/o as Dutch you can get to 50 in a reasonable time with just 2 TCs

ESO: socrstar
Comprehensive Turtling Guide
Semi NVR for 'Nilla
Rise of Amsterdam v2: A guide to the Dutch
"Wanna see my victory dance?" "Sure." "Hold on I need to get naked first." "Whoaa"
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 08-21-11 04:14 AM EDT (US)     20 / 23       
luke u go Huss/pike vs huss semi ?
I just went pike semi or sometimes huss/pike.

I don't think pike semi is the best strat but it fitted me well and I had good results against French hussar semi's.

As Bart said, if you start with a stable you are vulnerable vs xbow/pike rushes, I think starting with a rax is much more versatile.

If I see double rax, I start with skirms and send 700 w for stable. If I see stable in base, I start with 5 pikes and send either bw or 700 w for 2 banks (or 1 bank + market, whatever comes into mind).
France isn't better, neither as Dutch, but they are different and I think France has more advantages.
France isn't better but has more advantages?

...

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato
Jerom
Skirmisher
posted 08-21-11 04:39 AM EDT (US)     21 / 23       
Bart we can scouts, you can cav start if you see a cav semi ff (indicated by a 4 CDB shipment). If you ship 700 wood first to get a lot of banks fast and then use to 700 wood for either Stable or rax you can actually scout if its a huss semi or a musk huss before you are going to place down your stable.

It is however important to ship pikes right after the 700 wood because otherwise ur huss will come out just to slow and ull get raided a lot.
pramit
Skirmisher
posted 08-21-11 05:40 AM EDT (US)     22 / 23       
luke, what is your elo?

I no longer play aoe3 actively. In fact, I no longer play any video game. That's how lame I've become.
skype - pramit57
"Life is a void and void is truth"
Ha_Luke
Sig Award Winner
posted 08-21-11 11:22 AM EDT (US)     23 / 23       
_Ha_Luke_331

"There must be some way out of here," said the joker to the thief
[TΣ]_Ha_Luke_331



"All murderers are punished unless they kill in large numbers and to the sound of trumpets."
-Voltaire
"A good decision is based on knowledge and not on numbers. " - Plato
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