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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » The New and Improved Longbow Rush of DOOM!!
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Topic Subject:The New and Improved Longbow Rush of DOOM!!
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xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-09-06 01:38 PM EDT (US)         
Ok, i'm back again with my longbow rushingness in full gear, but this time I have a recording and more to come soon!

Be advised: dont try this vs russia or ottoman (unless you know they arent rushing). They have powerful ageII units like yourself, and can counter your rush effectively!

This recording is just to show at what times you should try to get stuff out and when to age, etc. Its me vs. a german comp on hard (couldnt beat the stupid expert lol, dumb cheating n00b). So here it is, enjoy!:http://www.savefile.com/files/1984226

Heres the build order for those impatient folks out there (or the ones who are just too lazy to watch the rec.)

Discovery Age:
this section is divided into three parts according to starting crates: 200 food, 300 wood; 300 food, 200 wood; and 200 food, 200 wood, 100 gold!!

300 food, 200 wood
-3 vills unpack crates, food first, rest on hunts
-once you have 150 wood, take 2 vills off crates and build a manor house. set waypoint to food.
-first card is 3 settlers.
-all future vill go to hunts until age up
-click the button at around 2:20-30ish depending on treasures with 16 vills total.

200 food, 300 wood
-3 vills unpack crates, food first, rest on hunts
-once you have 150 wood, take 2 vills off crates and build a manor house.
-after the rest of the wood is gathered, put another 2 vills on another manor house and set waypoint to food again.
-3 settlers is first card.
-age up at around 2:40-3:00, depending on treasures, with 17 vills total. This is the best combination of crates to start with.

200 food, 200 wood, 100 gold
-same build order as 300 food, 200 wood, but you will age with 16 vills about 20 seconds later because of the 100 less food. look for food treasures to speed ur time.

Age up with the Philosipher Prince (500 food) regardless of crates

Transition between Ages
-right after clicking up to colonial, send 8-9 vills to chop wood, and 2 forward. this should leave you with ~6 on hunts, and ~8 on wood.
-if you dont have 2 houses up yet, spend the first 150 wood on one to get to 30 pop ASAP.
-queue up 3 vills at the TC before aging for faster time (unless you really trust ur micro)
-when ur forward 2 vills get to their destination, have them chop wood.

Colonial Age
-you should arrive at colonial anywhere between 4:00-4:30. As soon as you hit colonial, build a rax with ur two forward vills. Do this even before sending ur first colonial shipment. Speed is key!!
-send 700 wood as first shipment.
-after sending the wood, have 2-3 of ur closest vills collect the 500 food, and make sure you have a constant stream of villies comin from the TC.
-as soon as the rax is up, queue 5 lbows (you may not have enough wood for all 5 yet, but queue at least one and add the rest later)
-once the wood is collected, build 2-3 manors and queue up 5 more lbows. Send vills to food until you have 10-11 on food and ~12 on wood.
-keep putting all vills on wood! whenever you have extra, spend it on houses. You need to aim for at least 60 pop space by 6:00.

The Attack
-you should have 10 lbows by about 5:30. send them to ur opponents hunting vills. 10 lbows kills a vill in one volley, so keep that in mind and dont forget to shiftclick the vills.
-If your opponent has no barracks or military yet, start makin pikes. If you have spare wood, make another barracks too. Aim for houses first, especially if he's german (even if he has palentine; oh, how i hate that card with a passion....).
-remember COVER MODE!! It pwns with pikes and stuff, so make sure all ur pikes are in cover.
-have ur lbows scout around his base for any vills. as long as he isnt collecting resources, ur doin ur job right.
-ur second shipment should be 600 wood. Build a second rax and a house. Remember to keep makin vills.

Special Note: if you started with 100 gold, its never a bad idea to make a few musketes instead of the first batch of pikes. Might as well spend it sometime...

Third shipment is 700 food.

Possible Scenarios

1)Your opponent hits fortress:
this is inevitable, seeing as he will click the button about 30 seconds after you attack regardless of what you do. Your best chance is to keep spamming lbows at a higher rate than pikes and keep smashin houses with all you got. About 30 seconds after you see that he has advanced, surround his town center with all ur units. If he shipped 2 falcs, say goodbye to them and wave as they get pwnd by 20+ lbows and pikes running in at them. Dont bother puttin the bows in melee as their ranged attack will usually kill them in a couple volleys. If uhlans come out, well, u better hope you have some pikes there to clean em up. Otherwise, ur screwed beyond belief. 9 uhlans really does a number on even 30 lbows, so always have about a 1:1, or even 1:2 ratio of lbows : pikes.

Any age-up units should be dealt with before resuming ur attack on the TC! And remember to keep scouting for escaped vills who might build an outpost somewhere. Have a patrol of lbows wandering the map to find any stray vills.

2)Opponent decides to stick it out in colonial:
this happens occasionally, so i felt i should discuss it a bit. When ur opponent stays in colonial, or he somehow saw ur rush comin, change ur ratio of lbows : pikes at 2:1 instead of 1:1. lbows destroy any colonial unit except for hussars, which get torn up by pikes, so this shouldnt be too difficult.

3)The rush fails:
if your rush is somehow beaten back, just turtle up, send 700 gold, and get to fortress age as quick as possible. Since you have been spamming manors and constantly producing vills, ur economy is miles ahead of that of ur opponent. Just get to age3, mass lbows and build falcs like a crazy person. It shouldnt be difficult to counter his weak econ with your 30+ vills.


In summary, attack houses first, then military buildings, then TC. I hope you will enjoy this guide, and please feel free to comment! More recordings coming soon!

Signing out,
Matt the Great

[This message has been edited by xMatt the Greatx (edited 05-09-2006 @ 05:58 PM).]

AuthorReplies:
slackman42
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 02:54 PM EDT (US)     1 / 42       
ive decided using the 400w is always a better option no matter what it is you're trying to do. in your rush, this gets you the 2 full batches of LBs w/out having to chop anything. try this in your strat, and see if you can consistently attack sooner, or even be able to put up a second rax for simultaneous production of the LBs and pikes since you're sending the 700w next. w/ all that wood being sent, i dont see the need to chop much of anything, except during the age-up to get a house and wood for your rax. speed is the factor here, as in any rush. waiting 30sec for each batch of troops can be a looooonng time when you're depending on just one building to make your anti-military and your siege.

oh, and keep trying. you'll get those expert comps eventually.

Bluebow
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 03:07 PM EDT (US)     2 / 42       
sounds good! However when your massing lbows and pikes which both eat up wood along with the manors, barracks and maby a market, to me it sounds odd not to send VC card.

and two qusetions, would you still focus on an attack if the opponent is teutonic TC? and do you continue to only have around 6 villies on food when pumping out lbows and villies because you said that all made villies go on wood??


Currently playing:- British!

You have the right to remain silent. Anything you say will be misquoted, then used against you.

ESO - The_Rifleman

xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-09-06 03:16 PM EDT (US)     3 / 42       
sorry, forgot to mention to switch back to 10 vills on food after collecting the 700 wood. Usually i just divide vills in a 1:2 ratio of food:wood at like 7:30

if he plays teutonic TC, i would advise retreating to gather reinforcements, then comin back right when he hits fort if he hasnt already gotten there. Keep scouting and raiding around his base no matter what. Make sure he is boxed in and DEFEND THE GOLD MINES!!!. We dont want any mercs comin out.

If he is makin an army to defend, just ship 700 gold and get to fortress. Then you can get falcs and its pretty much game over.

PS: i dont think brits get the 400 wood politition to ageII. I wish they did, but i havent seen it....
I also did say to build a second barracks when you have the wood for it. Its somewhere in there lol.

[This message has been edited by xMatt the Greatx (edited 05-09-2006 @ 03:19 PM).]

Destiny_Devil
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 04:51 PM EDT (US)     4 / 42       
Nice strat, but I'd advice getting the extra 5 lboes earlier and attacking earlier or go with the 400 wood as slackman advised
Krator
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 04:57 PM EDT (US)     5 / 42       
What is your answer to well-microed Dutch skirmishers at the same number you have longbows, in Colonial? (Backed up by TC fire)

-Krator


"Death is nothing, but to live defeated and inglorious is to die daily."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-09-06 05:09 PM EDT (US)     6 / 42       
What level HC do brits get the 400 wood politition? I agree, that would help this strat alot; I was under the impression that they didnt get it. Back to the drawing board then i suppose.

Against dutch, lbows are pretty much the same price as skirms, but theyre econ is slightly weaker than yours, especially if they already clicked the age up button. It's theyre 19 or so vill econ vs. your 25 and growing econ, plus you have map control. I would probably go for their barracks first in this case because skirms can be a real pain. Your force should be larger than theirs unless they saw you comin. In that case, just sit back and outboom them. You're brits, remember? Just manor boom yourself to victory with constant raids and go up to fortress once you feel ur ready. Then upgrade lbows to vet and get as many falcs as you can to nail their TC.

They really only have 2 options, since you control all the gold mines: get as many vills as possible out of their only safe mine, or go FF and get culvs to counter the falcs you have on them. Either way, you are in a much better situation than they are.

slackman42
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 05:18 PM EDT (US)     7 / 42       
pfffft.... you're right, they dont get the 400w. been a while since i played them. but i take the 200g+outpost because i nader rush. this is actually slightly more VS than even the 400w. and LBs beat skirms, so i wouldnt worry about that.
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-09-06 05:20 PM EDT (US)     8 / 42       
Thanks for clearin that up slackman. I think its obvious why they dont get it: 2 houses, a market, and 2 settlers for aging up lol. Granted it would take some vill seconds to build, but that's still too much of an advantage.
Destiny_Devil
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 05:27 PM EDT (US)     9 / 42       
Stophon4
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 06:15 PM EDT (US)     10 / 42       
This is OK only if you build a 2nd rax when wood comes in and make a constant stream of pikes for tc from there.

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-09-06 07:07 PM EDT (US)     11 / 42       
I just played a few games with this online and won 2/3. The first 2 went as planned, and lucky for me no German lammers. The second one was 2v2. Lets just say it didnt go too well. I full-force rushed a dutch player and managed to bring down his rax and TC and a bunch of houses. I was thinking "yes, its game over from here!" Unfortunately, my ally had apparently quit a couple minutes earlier and i lost because the other guy on the opponents team just outboomed me. Oh well, it's workin for me so far and i'm wondering if anyone else has bothered to try this online yet? If so, hows it workin out for ya?
Osheal
Skirmisher
posted 05-09-06 11:33 PM EDT (US)     12 / 42       
Heh, i still recommend the 300 wood instead of 3 villie as first card. I did a little testing on great plains after your first thread and i was aging around 4:45 with 15-16 villies, 3 manors already up so no need to build more and an age 2 shipment waiting to be sent soon as i aged.

They key being chopping is friggin slow. Better to have those villes hunting or unpacking crates. Then once you hit age 2, your already at 40 max pop and all shipments/resources can go to rush as opposed to have to then start building manors once in age 2.

vs dutch, a skilled dutch player will fend it off okay if hes putting everything into defense.
There are usually 2 mines within defendable range at start.
Lvl 50+ dutch get the tower+200 gold age option also.
longbows suck vs towers. you have to have pike there quick or its useless.
If the dutch player ships 2 more towers as first age 2 shipments they will be up before you get there since dutch age pretty quick too.
3 towers well placed and you wont be controling the 2 close gold mines with longbows. Then he just has to drop a barracks in the 3 towers and pump about 10 skirms to handle pike when and if they come. If they do come early with the bows, 10 skirms+MM+3 towers+tc fire and odds are the rush is going to go south quick.
As far as controlling other mines outside the initial two. Wont matter that much. In team games i rarely use more than 2 mines so i can save them for my allies. I can have 6 banks up before the 2 mines run out. 1v1, a good dutch player can also survive off two mines if need be as long as he can pop enough banks in time.

Honestly though, any rush is hard to pull off against someone who is aggressively defending a rush. Otto is still probably the easiest.

OpenAmp
Banned
posted 05-10-06 03:18 AM EDT (US)     13 / 42       
what i'd do is after 700 wood get 700 coin and make my way into fortress. the assalt would be dialed back but if i'm in fortress and he's not, the difference in shipments is big.

but that's just me. i think i'll try this out sometime. looks good.

finally someone who agrees with me about nailing housing first

xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-10-06 08:54 AM EDT (US)     14 / 42       
I tried the 300 wood first card many times and tried to get it to work because the extra pop really does help, but i find it slows the initial attack too much to really be effective. It takes too long to have vills go collect the wood, then build 2 houses then collect 800 food. That's 25VS per house and 37.5VS for collecting the crates, not even including walking time. Plus, the 3 vills would be workin for that amount of time before the manor vills even came out, so it ends up being a rather large difference in colonial time.

About the dutch: if you see them goin that heavy on defense, i think it would be wise just to go to send 700 gold and age up to fortress at that point. Yes, 3 towers, TC fire, and 10 skirms is more than enough to kill off ur rush, but he used a shipment, an age up politition, and 500 food/650 gold to get those defenses. You used: 250 wood for barracks, 400 wood/600 food for lbows. At that point you know he just shoved twice the resources as you into making a nice defensive position, and going to fortress would be the smart thing to do.

Keat
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-06 06:11 PM EDT (US)     15 / 42       
Matt! I've tried out your tactic, and I'm enjoying it a lot. My bro-in-law likes to talk it up on how his German's can smash my british anyday...we'll see about that.

I'm having some difficulty with some minor details though... I find it hard to conserve my vil seconds when it comes to hunting. Shift waypointing helps, but when the herd is gone, I find I'm wasting time with idle vils that have no place to hunt, and then im stuck walking around the map. Any suggestions on how to better hunt?

Also, I see you've made a suggestion as to how many vills should be produced by Age up (i.e. 17), but I'm finding I'm just producing vills whenever I get the food available. Is there a point when I should slow down my vill production? Should I ALWAYS keep a 1:2 ratio for hunt to wood? One of your suggestions was to keep putting all vills on wood.

Perhaps I'll replay your clip until you can get back to me.

I'm stoked that I can finally get off the ol' boom and turtle tactic!!

xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-10-06 06:26 PM EDT (US)     16 / 42       
Ok keat, i'll try to answer each of your questions, but watching the replay should help alot.

1) When going for hunts, have your vills walk behind them and then shoot so that they run towards your Town Center. Occasionally repeat the process when the dear you are workin on is about to perish. Never be afraid to have 3 or 4 dead deer at a time. Once a herd is down to about 3 left, i tend to send one of the hunting vills to the closest other herd and shoot them toward the TC. By the time the first herd is gone, the second should be very close to ur TC for quick access.

2)During discovery, keep every single vill on food the entire time until aging up. Then switch about 8 to wood once you click the button. After collecting the 700 wood crates, send vills to hunt till u have 10 or 11 and send the rest to wood until you have about 10 food and 20 wood. Then just put them on what you need.

Good luck man! And i hope you beat your lame German brother!

Real2002
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-06 06:34 PM EDT (US)     17 / 42       

Quote:

What is your answer to well-microed Dutch skirmishers at the same number you have longbows, in Colonial? (Backed up by TC fire)

This is similar to my British rush, and I encountered Dutch in a 2v2 the other night. The Dutch player was directly across from me so I went after him and he was using skirms very well. His problem was that I confronted him at his doorstep so when he let his vils out of the TC, I ignored the skirms and hit the vils, forcing him to put them back in.

My economy was better and I just kept cranking lbows and some pikes. Eventually the lbow to skirmisher ratio turned in my favor and he was losing them left and right.

What eventually got me was my teammate's marvelous strelet rush against Germans. He killed 3 or 4 vils and only had 8 of his own, so at 9 mins it was gg for him. Then I couldn't hold off 2 opponents and lost.

I guess the moral is for a rush like this you have to be prepared to stay in colonial a while and get your economy roaring while mainting that balance to get an approriate amount of units out.

Where my srat differs from this is that I typically put fewer on wood and my third shipment is 600 wood. Any manors built have those vils go to wood, vils from the TC go to food, for a while anyway. I pretty much ignore gold. I'll only put 1 or 2 there. If you do that you can make 300 or more gold in which case your 4th shipment can be 700 gold if you need to fortress.


ESO: Steel_Reign

*Doles out the harshness*

[This message has been edited by Real2002 (edited 05-10-2006 @ 06:35 PM).]

George_III
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-06 08:28 PM EDT (US)     18 / 42       
Yea, I do about the same thing, and it works very well. But I put more villies on food since I'm always low on meat...

In 2v2, with an Otto ally making jannies its really unstoppable, and you can focus on spamming only longbows, no pikes.


O and Matt, I saw you in a game today or yesterday, I had forgotten what your ESO was .

Killersquirrel
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-06 08:32 PM EDT (US)     19 / 42       
This sounds like almost exactly what I do, except I build 2 barracks.

Bill: Bob, I see troops advancing.
Bob: Damn, I can't get my grenades to light. Get over here and block the wind.
Bill: Do you hear gunshots?
Bob: I'm running out of matches. Hurry up.
bill: They just shanked john.
bob: He'll be dearly missed. Now help me ligh-
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-10-06 09:45 PM EDT (US)     20 / 42       
Apparently i'm not very original then, if everyone does the same thing lol. I've seriously never seen anyone else do this before, so i thougt i was one of the only ones who would do it. Me and my friend online (Major and Colonel) beat a Brigadier and a Liet. Col. with this plus a Strelet rush. It boosted my cuetech by like 13 lol. I saw you today Georg_III. I was gonna say hi, but you left too soon lol.
Killersquirrel
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-06 10:22 PM EDT (US)     21 / 42       
It may not be too original, but take pride that it's basically the first one written down

Bill: Bob, I see troops advancing.
Bob: Damn, I can't get my grenades to light. Get over here and block the wind.
Bill: Do you hear gunshots?
Bob: I'm running out of matches. Hurry up.
bill: They just shanked john.
bob: He'll be dearly missed. Now help me ligh-
Osheal
Skirmisher
posted 05-10-06 11:47 PM EDT (US)     22 / 42       
good think ol' ceres isnt around anymore /wink.
he'd argue with you till blue in the face that brits cant rush at all.
xSephirothx
Skirmisher
(id: xMatt the Greatx)
posted 05-11-06 06:24 AM EDT (US)     23 / 42       
Ceres wasnt around when brits got another food crate and the FF got nerfed! I think he might have changed his opinion (or not, i dont know).
Stophon4
Skirmisher
posted 05-11-06 08:17 AM EDT (US)     24 / 42       
Ceres certainly had an interesting style as some might say.

"Dutch are OP!"
"Iriquois are OP!"
"Stophon is OP!"

tEk Clan #1 US Clan
Real2002
Skirmisher
posted 05-11-06 11:25 AM EDT (US)     25 / 42       
His strats were good, but like Matt said, this is 2 patches or so later. Things have changed a bit.

ESO: Steel_Reign

*Doles out the harshness*

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