i know dutch are considered UP atm, but im having serious trouble against them as the ottomans.
if hes good, the dutch makes about 10 skirms, usually has 5 by my first attack and 10 by my second. I CANT KILL THEM....they hit and run my jans constantly, picking them off 1 by 1, and i cant even touch them. i ship 3 hussars, but hes probably shipped pikes by then and i STILL cant get to the skirms. all this time im not even rushing him, just having a footwork contest trying to get positioned to kill his pathetic, but annoyingly effective defense.
i know the dutch early economy sucks, but the ottoman early economy sucks quite a bit worse, so i dont think out booming him is a very viable option...
what should i do?
"he will have a hard getting banks up" ~rel4xed
"I accidently drop kicked someone once" ~george_uk
Author
Replies:
Tordenskiold Skirmisher
posted 08-13-06 03:38 PM
EDT (US)
1 / 20
Don't use Jans.
Use abus guns instead and only ship 5 jans to protect from the 3 Hussars he will send.
TORDENSKIOLD(1690-1720)
During the Great Nordic War (1700-1720), he was commander of the danish navy, which defeaded the swedish army at Kristiania (modern Oslo). After the war, he was killed in a duel on Nov. 12, 1720 just outside Hamburg, Germany, during a travel to England.
but if i only use abus guns, thats still not rushing him. abus would kill his stupid little defense (eventually), but they suck against vils and their seige attack is something to be laughed at...after i kill the defense, what would i do? start making jans? im sure by then hell be in fortress...
"he will have a hard getting banks up" ~rel4xed
"I accidently drop kicked someone once" ~george_uk
[This message has been edited by exc4libulz1022 (edited 08-13-2006 @ 03:39 PM).]
mentork Skirmisher
posted 08-13-06 03:40 PM
EDT (US)
3 / 20
Use abus guns with just a few jans near them to melee hussars. Keep making abus but remember to keep a handful of jans.
synch Skirmisher
posted 08-13-06 04:46 PM
EDT (US)
4 / 20
Take this from me.
Jan rush him to hell.
Send 3 hussars as first shipment.
Always send 400 wood politician, don't have woodies, just spam jans. After 3 hussars, send in 5 jans, then 700 food+ 600 food. If he's not dead by then, 700 wood for TPs/fishing.
Pikes are slow as hell, micro your jans to walk up to the skirm and shoot them, they don't have good hp and they're slow as KCUF, remember that.
[This message has been edited by synch (edited 08-13-2006 @ 04:46 PM).]
RL_the_g Skirmisher
posted 08-13-06 06:08 PM
EDT (US)
5 / 20
Well otto's dont rush vs dutch that's a rule, really im not the only one saying it's all experts that play otto that say it.
Just go to agesanctuary find otto vs dutch games you will see they rush until they get out skirms or don't rush at all.
Just rush him with jans until he makes skirms.
When he make some skirms, stop your rush and go to fortress he will prob continu making some skirms while you go to fortress and get spahis to crush the skirms sure he has 8 pikes but it's nothing vs your spahis.
while you go to fortress don't just let your jans stand there try getting all the treasuress on the map
Or use your jans to kill some vills or to bother him put some preassur on him so he stays in colonial doing skirms while you go to fortress to get spahis.
radradrobotanks Skirmisher
posted 08-13-06 06:21 PM
EDT (US)
6 / 20
Do A Spahi FF. Dutch are one of the harder civs to rush. The only units you need to worry about in that situation are the "feared" ruyter and black riders later on.
And please don't be like every other Ottoman and Janny rush every single game. Think about who you are playing. Colonial skirms = Dead jannies.
If you do rush, try putting the jans in melee against the skirms. That should work due to low skirm hp and hand attack as opposed to the high jan HP and decent hand attack.
"Dont worry you have great skills. You are Unique....just like everybody else."-unknown
wilson0825 Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 01:10 AM
EDT (US)
8 / 20
Isn't it many people won't play 1 vs 1 against Otto ? like in quick search, if opponent is Otto, then they might just click Cancel.
Rush with jans/abus guns. Abus guns own skirms so much in colonial (3 hits), and it just takes a bit of micro to protect the abus guns from his 3 hussar card + any built hussars. Then just keep his economy idle, put your age up tower by his nearest gold mine, take down his rax and his banksm houses, TC, gg. Spahi FF is easily taken care of by BR, which most decent players get if an ottoman FFs against them. Rush is a much better strategy for the ottomans.
Only reason everyone here is saying Dutch are hard to rush is because they've probably never heard of abus....
meowies Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 10:01 AM
EDT (US)
10 / 20
Quote:
Isn't it many people won't play 1 vs 1 against Otto ? like in quick search, if opponent is Otto, then they might just click Cancel.
Agreed. I'm very suprised your having trouble as otts to take down dutch. It isn't everyday you hear someone having trouble with otts and I guess its even rarer for someone to conquer dutch with such a "strong" civ
Lord_Zirconia Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 10:05 AM
EDT (US)
11 / 20
I agree with Adam. Attack with lots of Abus. After You kill his colonial army with like 10 jans and 5 abus, you can attack his barracks etc. Use the 3 hussars to scout and raid running vils. That should work nicely.
"Dont worry you have great skills. You are Unique....just like everybody else."-unknown
Genkai0 Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 01:38 PM
EDT (US)
12 / 20
Abus gun.
Quote:
Jan rush him to hell.
Thats my style of rushing. Dutch are easy. Mircoers are no use against me. If who knew what I did no mirco would ever work.
Lamer: FF. Me: Why? Lamer: Cause you'll be in 1 age ahead of the other guys and have a better eco, plus you can turtle and since its on your TC + couple of towers you can't go wrong. Me: Uh, we're on the G Plains, how the heck am I gonna turtle?
RL_the_g Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 02:18 PM
EDT (US)
13 / 20
Well putting your jans in melee won't change anything since he will just split the skrims in two groups.
Now an all jan rush will fail because heavy infantry= jans< light infantry = skirms. I mean if jans would counter skirms they would be op and since they don't...
Rushing with abus and jans is a good idea but again if he is decent he will have 3 towers when you're at his base and 10 skirms and as we know abus suck vs buildings.
If he doesn't have towers up and only makes skirms then go for a abus/jan rush and he should get pawned.
Now if he has 3 towers up or even 2 go to fortress he will get spahis 2 canons and attack him but use your remaining jans to put preassur on him so he stays in colonial and does skirms while thinking you are still rushing and massing jans.
But seriously he will be in fortress probably 2 minutes later than you are + one minute to get some anti spahis but again you could just get 5 abus 2 canons and attack kill his anti cav mercs and then get spahis out.
Lord_Zirconia Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 07:17 PM
EDT (US)
14 / 20
You could always attack early with 5 shipped jans and 5 grens. If you suspect him to have towers. I usuaally pull this off at about 5:15-5:30. Then make more grens if he has towers or make abus to kill infantry if he has nno towers. Most of the time I catch people just building towers and I destroy them.
"Dont worry you have great skills. You are Unique....just like everybody else."-unknown
The Freshmaker Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 07:28 PM
EDT (US)
15 / 20
you can always feint a rush, and then just FF and give him a spahi spanking
"We could kill everyone!!" - The Boondock Saints
Lord_Zirconia Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 07:38 PM
EDT (US)
16 / 20
If the Dutchman FFs then you would be way behind due to the feint rush, so I dont think that that is too viable...
"Dont worry you have great skills. You are Unique....just like everybody else."-unknown
Brtnboarder495 Skirmisher
posted 08-14-06 07:43 PM
EDT (US)
17 / 20
Eh, I doubt that's the best idea since Dutch is most powerful right after they get the majority of their banks up, typically right about the time that the Ottoman player is building his church, so I wouldn't FF against them unless you knew for sure you could pull it off and that they were preparing for a rush, that way you could catch them off gaurd.
And yes, sadly you can still jan rush them since jans own skirms in small numbers.
Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
RL_the_g Skirmisher
posted 08-15-06 09:58 AM
EDT (US)
18 / 20
Even in small numbers skirms own jans since at that time jans will also be in a small number.
Jans are a great unit but are still heavy infantry and don't own Li jans also suck vs cav actually i just played vs spanish he got a card so his lancers would have 4x vs infantry vs 2x of my jans so lame i won eatch battle i was owning but my jans couldn't take down his lancers very lame damn pretty gay.
The only way to counter them is to make hussars and he had 20 pikes and it's gg you can send manchu but seriously that is gay you have to send mercs to counter a unit or you can build those awesom anti cav that almost do no damage vs cav and that now get pawned by Li.
PATCH 1.09 SHOULD NERF LANCERS OR BOOST JANS VS CAV
Lord_Zirconia Skirmisher
posted 08-15-06 11:11 AM
EDT (US)
19 / 20
You could try a Native Rush if there are good natives. That can be pulled off very fast and in the meantime you can FF.
maybe....
"Dont worry you have great skills. You are Unique....just like everybody else."-unknown
Wabbitkiller Skirmisher
posted 08-15-06 01:02 PM
EDT (US)
20 / 20
As a Dutch player what I've done against Ottos is the "build banks in discovery" strat, but I only build 2 banks in discovery. It's important for me to get CM and IB, and even a tower if possible up before the Jans hit. Then I just let TC, Tower and MM take care of the first couple of waves.
If the Otto player is persistant than I put up a barracks in colonial and pump out a few skirms to add to the fun, while keeping up villie production the entire time. If things are going well, I'll add the 3rd and 4th bank in colonial and then go to fortress.
The big thing for me is to survive the first couple of waves, and the TC + MM are usually good enough to take care of that.