You must be logged in to post messages.
Please login or register

Strategy Central
Moderated by Maffia, LordKivlov, JimXIX

Hop to:    
Welcome! You are not logged in. Please Login or Register.27 replies
Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » in online play, treaty or not, IS A REVOLUTION WORTH WHILE!!
Bottom
Topic Subject:in online play, treaty or not, IS A REVOLUTION WORTH WHILE!!
Mercuful_Ray
Skirmisher
posted 01-07-07 06:03 AM EDT (US)         
i just dont think it is, i usually play 40 min treaty and i have loads of resourses and i look at revolution and think... nooooo... why not get imp. jassies or whatever imp. unit and fight it like that, there is no risk and your units are well better, even with a treaty games, if you revolt you units may include more due to millitia but they will not be as good, ARRRGGGGG!!!!!!!

i just cant see a use for a revolution

everytime i see one the player gets beat

there only good vs comp,offline, what do you think??

AuthorReplies:
MusketKing
Skirmisher
posted 01-07-07 06:58 AM EDT (US)     1 / 27       
well a revolution would never be good in a 40 min treaty
mainly because u shud be imperial at about 20 mins~
and shud just spend the next 20 making sure uve got ur eco sorted and the nessecary upgrades, i supppppose u cud stay in industrial reel a load of food in then revolt at 40 so after uve done it u could still make colonials. but that again i cant see working.
in normal games it can be useful but that again is circumstantial.
maybe if ur tying to finish somebody off but just dont have the army size to do it or the other way round if some1s attackig u and u cant get troops out fast enough u could always revolllt.
but personally i cudnt see myself doing it, it just seems to risky to me
Mr Musk

"The better at AoE, the worse at RL" - Doppel
After someone suggesting to make a meatshield to fight off petards..."Where can I find this meatshield? Is it in the TC?" - Sjalle

"That last comment has earned you a ban Musk" - Solus
On realising I was on a 2nd account:"Quinarvy ehhh" - Solus

RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR - VERY GG
Mine and Micky's OPness

[This message has been edited by MusketKing (edited 01-07-2007 @ 07:00 AM).]

Mercuful_Ray
Skirmisher
posted 01-07-07 05:13 PM EDT (US)     2 / 27       
i agrree, but its always good offline fun, cheers for that, imperial is just BETTER

i just wanted some views, kepp them comming

[This message has been edited by Mercuful_Ray (edited 01-07-2007 @ 05:14 PM).]

Mokon
Skirmisher
posted 01-07-07 06:44 PM EDT (US)     3 / 27       
It is very much so worthwhile if you wanna resign... but then again the resign button might be better :P

No but to be honest it is useless. The units are not that much better and well you wont have any eco left so 99.99% of the time it will do nothing.


Mokon | | | AoE3 Rate 2200~ | | |
  • To check out my Age of Empires III Strategy Guide click here!
  • The price of my guide has been reduced! Check it out!
  • New TWC Recorded Games Posted on my Media Page!
  • Scamander
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-07-07 07:52 PM EDT (US)     4 / 27       
    I have played several games where I used Revolution, It IS worth it in many cases.

    I was playing a team game recently, 3v3 and one of my allies had to go afk for about 15 min, which essentially meant we would be destroyed in a 2v3.

    I was Port and it was on NE, I went Rev, grabbed the TP and went Trade Monopoly. I could equal them miltarily for about the 5 min necessary. IN addition I had a large fleet of ships. So I could resupply my men.

    Since then I have found Revolution a very powerful option and have won several games using it.

    Also dont compare Imp or Revolution, Imp costs 8k res, Revolution costs 3k. Thats 5k Differense = 50 colonial militia.

    A good revolution can win games easily, esp as you spam forts over the map.

    [This message has been edited by Scamander (edited 01-07-2007 @ 07:54 PM).]

    brandnizzle
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-07-07 08:05 PM EDT (US)     5 / 27       
    Well look, the ame isnt balanced for treaty.

    its common sense, if youc an be in age 5 in 20 mintues with all eco upgrades, why would youw ant to revolt and not get thsoe upgrades and have no economy at all for the rest of the game...

    thats just dumb.

    exc4libulz1022
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-09-07 06:04 PM EDT (US)     6 / 27       

    Quote:

    Well look, the ame isnt balanced for treaty.

    i agree. treaty is a feature that was tacked on to the game for the first time ever since RoR i think? maybe, that was a long, long time ago. anyway, as far as im concerned it doesnt belong there but i understand why ES did it.

    they cannot have the game function perfectly in both treaty and classic play. there are civs that are strong to rush with but weaken if the game progresses, and there are civs that get extremely strong in the late game (french), civs that have good early economies and civs that have good late economies. all of these features enrich the classic gameplay and cannot be modified for an add-on the players thrusted onto ES.

    and no...revolution is not worth while. its not worth while in 99% of classic games either.


    "he will have a hard getting banks up"
    ~rel4xed

    "I accidently drop kicked someone once"
    ~george_uk

    dr nefarious
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-11-07 07:43 AM EDT (US)     7 / 27       

    Quote:

    I was Port and it was on NE, I went Rev, grabbed the TP and went Trade Monopoly. I could equal them miltarily for about the 5 min necessary.

    If just one of them had known what he was doing he'd have built two or three howitzers and blown up one of your TPs before you even knew what was coming. Or a monitor or two in the pond at home, that would have been even more fun.

    Three enemies who let you "grab the TPs" and cannot kill a single TP in Age 4 within five minutes would have probably lost the game anyway, revolution or not.

    Hikaro Takayama
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-11-07 12:24 PM EDT (US)     8 / 27       
    I say that it depends on the circumstances.

    I only consider revolting if:

    I have a lv 25 or higher home city and the following cards sent:

    Adv TP (essentially turns your TP into a high HP outpost.... with improved buildings my TPs had about 2x the HP my fortified outposts did)
    Improved buildings (again a no-brainer, since the more HP your buildings have the harder they are to destroy)

    Fort & Castramentation (if applicable)

    Factory Wagon & Robber barons or Industrial Revolution.

    Any Unit upgrade cards (Artillery combat, Cavalry HP, etc)

    Any card that gives a trickle of free resources (capitalism, distributivism, etc)

    That way, I use the factories to produce the two resources that aren't being trickled, and set 1 or 2 of my TPs to the third resource so I still have a positive resource flow.

    I also try to get two home city shipments saved up before I revolt as well, so I can send a fort and 4 Gatling guns.

    I've also found the following helpful tips that can affect my decision to revolt or not:

    1. Any settlers or CDBs that are in obtained from treasures AFTER a revolt stay as settlers or CDBs and can be used to gather resources

    2. Fishing boats and Caravels also can still gather after a revolt

    3. If you have a Cree village or (as in the case of one of my dramatic turn-arounds with a revolt) 3, you can still train Cree CDBs to work farms, plantations, etc.

    4. Gatling guns can be trained at any artillery foundry, so if you have the Battlefield construction card, send that before revolt so that your musketeers can build cannon foundaries near your FWD forts. 20 gatling guns can PWN just about anything, and when coupled with a large group of infantry and a team of 6 mortars or heavy cannons (rockets, bombards, etc), you can take an enemy base apart in record time, particularly if you have the "Artillery Combat" card sent.....

    One time, I was playing, both my teammates got wiped out, while I was taking out 1 of the enemy teams. I'd already sent my factorys and had a good resource flow, so I just sent in my last unit card (Holy Roman Army) and revolted as soon as the Mercs arrived. I then had my cannon foundary crank out 10 Gating guns and sent a fort wagon and 4 gatling guns and proceded to destroy the French town. After losing most of my army (all but the 6 mortars) to an Ottoman counter-attack, I re-built, and moved in with 20 gatling guns and a large force of Colonial militia (most were on base defense duty), and other units I trained (thanks to my factories cranking out wood and coin, my coin trickle from the capitalism card and 15 Cree CDB's working my mills, I never ran short on resources).

    Again, as I said before, if a few things had been different (such as no Cree villagers or water to fish in), I may not have revolted.

    Eliminator
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-11-07 08:13 PM EDT (US)     9 / 27       
    In a shorter treaty i was in a losing position (age 4 vs early imp) and a revoluti0on acually payed off. It was lucky but its pretty hard to counter a 200 pop army unless you can stop its advance - i mean as long as you can get mass amounts of those militia cover them from light inft with gattlers and have some horse support vs cannons you should be alright IF you push him back hard FAST - revolution almost always looses unloess u play noobs.
    Striker1246
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-11-07 08:20 PM EDT (US)     10 / 27       
    Revolution is not really worth trying unless you are offline against comps. however, the giant loophole is if you make a market, and build fishing ships. you can just gather to your hearts content! just make sure you protect your existing buildings. if you need wood, just get it from the market.
    dr nefarious
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-12-07 07:10 AM EDT (US)     11 / 27       

    Quote:

    however, the giant loophole is if you make a market, and build fishing ships. you can just gather to your hearts content! just make sure you protect your existing buildings. if you need wood, just get it from the market.

    Once again, an enemy who knows what he's doing will simply blow up your market. Besides, to "gather to your hearts content" you'd need total control of the sea, which means that you'd be on the road to victory anyway.


    Quote:

    20 gatling guns can PWN just about anything

    If that were true the Portuguese would rule AoE3, since they can build organ guns which are similar to the gatlings. Ever tried to go up against a few falconets with those?


    Quote:

    If you have a Cree village or (as in the case of one of my dramatic turn-arounds with a revolt) 3

    "Dramatic turn-around"? To control three Cree villages you need a level of map control which should easily win you the game anyway. I think you won EVEN THOUGH you revolted, not BECAUSE.


    Quote:

    One time, I was playing, both my teammates got wiped out, while I was taking out 1 of the enemy teams. I'd already sent my factorys and had a good resource flow, so I just sent in my last unit card (Holy Roman Army) and revolted as soon as the Mercs arrived. I then had my cannon foundary crank out 10 Gating guns and sent a fort wagon and 4 gatling guns and proceded to destroy the French town. After losing most of my army (all but the 6 mortars) to an Ottoman counter-attack, I re-built, and moved in with 20 gatling guns and a large force of Colonial militia

    What kind of Age 4 opponent can be defeated with 20 gatling guns and some colonial militia? That was either against the AI or against complete beginners, right? Two experienced human players would have simply ripped you apart, e.g. by going for your factories while you were attacking the first one. And they wouldn't have let you re-built in peace for another attack either, they would have re-built themselves, and faster than you, since their economies would have been much better than yours.

    Hikaro Takayama
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-12-07 12:27 PM EDT (US)     12 / 27       
    Dr. Nefarious: You're probably right that I'd have eventually won anyways, but the game was dragging on long enough, and, as I mentioned before there were some mitigating circumstances that made me decide to revolt. I wish I had a map of that game, but I don't so I'll just give a brief description of the events immediately leading up to and after the revolt:

    Map = Frozen Great Lakes (I seem to get that just about every time I roll the great lakes RMS)

    Natives = 4 Cree villages

    Team 1 = British (Dumb), Dutch (Dumber) and Germans (me)

    Team 2 = Souix, Ottomans and French


    I managed to age up faster than just about everyone else, and was set to win the game by booming with max settler wagons (I have the Germantown farmers card) and a large army of Imperial Needle Gunners, Imp. Uhlans and Imp. Cannons, however my teamates were just about useless... I had to keep pushing the enemy out of their towns.

    Once I got to the Ind. Age, I'd just got my second Cree village, the Dutch were all but dead, and I managed to take out the Souix. In the meantime, the British, who were holding off the Ottomans and French for some time started to get pushed back.

    I had just shipped both factories (1 to my fwd base and 1 to my original base so that the enemy couldn't get them both in 1 shot) and my second fort to my main base to guard my factories. I was in the process of reinforcing my main army (the one that destroyed the Souix) with a ton of Highlanders from my Saloon and various other troops, when the Brits notified me that their town was getting wiped out. I used the Uhlans to take out all but 1 of their cannons, but they didn't last long.

    My main army was not far from the French base, and would never have gotten back to our side in time to stop the Ottomans and French armies from burning both the British and my towns, so what I did was check that I had a good stock-pile of resources (I was close to hitting pop cap) and at least 2 HC shipments, and I revolted.

    I moved all my colonial militia into my fortified town area to protect my factory, and I shipped 2 gatling gun cards, the first to my original town and the second to my fwd base (where I also had my Artillery foundry crank out 10 more). When the Gats arrived, I had my colonial militia, 4 gatling guns in the original town and half my 30 Cree trackers assigned to hotkey 3 (a.k.a. Homeland Defense), and they hit what was left of the French and Ottoman attack force when it reached the outskirts of my fortified town, wiping it out.

    At the same time, I took my main army (which included my mercs and my 6 howitzer team) and Hit the French Hard and fast. Both their factories evaporated in less than a minute, followed soon after by their military buildings, Town center and any mills or plantations in range. The Ottoman and French had appearantly already had their second wave on its way to finish off my original town when I hit their towns, forcing them to wheel back and hit me.

    By the time their main force joined the battle, I had 23 gatling guns in my main army, and those guns (along with some Hackapells and Guard Uhlans)wiped out half the entire Ottoman artillery division (6 field guns and 4 heavy horse guns) before they could even fire, and the rest only destroyed 1 or 2 gatling guns before they, too, fell. Of course, by the time they destroyed most of my main army, the French base was reduced to shambles and they both were hurting bad.

    In the meantime, I'd sent two more fort wagons, and set them in the middle of what was the Souix town. When I realized that my inf and cavalry support and half my main army gating guns were gone, I moved the remaing troops and my mortars behind my forts, which took care of the rest of the Ottoman troops.

    While I was re-building my army, the Ottomans DID try to take out my original town and 1 factory while I had 1 Cree CDB and my homeland defense team securing a nearby trading post site, but I was able to get the Homeland Security team back and take out their army before they could do terminal damage to my factory (they did take out my 5 fortified outposts, though), so I sent another fort wagon to my original town center and built the second fort right beside the factory (so they would have to contend with 2 forts in order to get to the factory), which by the time that was done, I'd hit pop cap again and rebuilt my army and gatling gun team, at which point I finished off the french, took out their cree village TP and had my explorer build one in its place. Then, while spamming champion Trackers, I hit the Ottoman town from both sides (I had the Homeland Security team surround the opposite side of the Ottoman town to keep any of his settlers from escaping), and blasted them into oblivion.

    While I realize that I could have won that game without revolting, it would have taken much longer, and I'd have most likely lost my original town center and 1 of my factories in the process...

    And as for the Organ guns Vs. Gatling guns, Organ guns have about 2/3 the HP and about 1/2 the range and attack of gatling guns, which, believe me, makes all the difference in the world.....

    dr nefarious
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-15-07 06:53 AM EDT (US)     13 / 27       

    Quote:

    Organ guns have about 2/3 the HP and about 1/2 the range and attack of gatling guns, which, believe me, makes all the difference in the world.....

    If that were true it would indeed make a difference. But since this is complete nonsense I have to conclude that you either play with a modded version of the game or you're making this up.


    Quote:

    I had 23 gatling guns in my main army, and those guns (along with some Hackapells and Guard Uhlans)wiped out half the entire Ottoman artillery division (6 field guns and 4 heavy horse guns) before they could even fire,

    Yeah, sure...

    RiPP
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-15-07 07:25 AM EDT (US)     14 / 27       
    Maybe i fi fish boom. faster u get to industrial and revolt withboats on fish. The less the enemy army will be. and hopefully will not be able to hold off millitia spam.
    + them crazzy gattling cannons.

    If i were gona revolt would be good on a map like new england fish and get tps for food and xp revolt and just spam millttia useing fish and tp for xp ship cannons or food more men. Id preffer jjust to go imp and imp heavy cannons gendarme voilter personally.

    Also i think eso sould make millittia like 50 food to give revolting any chance of succes. Dutch 2 facs 8 banks market = mass food never ending millittia.

    [This message has been edited by RiPP (edited 01-15-2007 @ 07:26 AM).]

    Earl Samsca
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-15-07 07:27 AM EDT (US)     15 / 27       
    I lost to a Port (I was British) who revolted once.

    But that was due to him hitting at exactly the right moment after I had done exactly the worst thing.

    Theres a window of opportunity when your opponent moves from a gathering economy to a.. mill/plantation ecomomy for want of a better word and before you have barracks/stables all over the map.

    Anyway I had just attacked, killed all of his army but lost of mine in the process (screwed the battle up really, 2 HC destroyed about half my army before they were taken out), he had got to industrial so I was attempting to take out his factories while just hitting industrial myself.

    It was Sonora so i had pretty much run out of hunts/mines and so had most of my economy trying to get enough wood to fund plantations/mills. Sonora kind of sucks for British imo since there is minimal amounts of wood (in easy reach). Now had the Port player taken the time to make an actual army I would have been able to fight it into submission, throw up my mills/plantations and it would be a case of end game fighting. Not sure who would have had the advantage, could have gone either way.

    But instead he revolted and proceeded to attack. My army melted under a couple of HC, few Mamelukes and about 60-70 militiamen who are around the vet musket level.

    At which point he had probably 40-50 muskets in my base, my barracks etc were dead with no resources to build more, no way to sneak out to gather some wood and no way to really gather without losing villagers. He brought down the TC and it was all over.

    So I would say revolution can work, but you can't build a strategy about it. If your opponent overextends themselves and their economy hits that bump of resources it can be an effective knock out blow. The window however is quite small, once they have a proper industrial style economy, lots of barracks and the church training techs, it won't work. That and if you go before you have alot of villagers your unlikely to accomplish much in my oppinion.

    But then this is at a relatively low level, good players probably don't overextend themselves in such a way. Although if your on one of those maps which are resource slim...

    dr nefarious
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-15-07 08:58 AM EDT (US)     16 / 27       

    Quote:

    So I would say revolution can work, but you can't build a strategy about it.

    You can.

    Quote:

    But then this is at a relatively low level, good players probably don't overextend themselves in such a way.

    They may not have a choice. As you say, the window is small, but I guess in a situation where both players have more or less zero military available after heavy fighting, a quick revolution might actually be a feasible way to win.

    Hikaro Takayama
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-15-07 12:15 PM EDT (US)     17 / 27       

    Quoted from dr nefarious:


    Organ guns have about 2/3 the HP and about 1/2 the range and attack of gatling guns, which, believe me, makes all the difference in the world.....

    If that were true it would indeed make a difference. But since this is complete nonsense I have to conclude that you either play with a modded version of the game or you're making this up.[/Quote]

    Well, I'm not entirely sure about the HP, since I don't play Portugese, but from several games AGAINST them, I can attest that the Organ Guns DO have less of a range... About 1/2 to 2/3 of that of a gatling gun, and a player who knows what he's doing (namely me) can use that to their advantage.

    Quoted from dr nefarious:



    I had 23 gatling guns in my main army, and those guns (along with some Hackapells and Guard Uhlans)wiped out half the entire Ottoman artillery division (6 field guns and 4 heavy horse guns) before they could even fire,

    Yeah, sure...[/Quote]

    Hey, I don't mess around when it comes to artillery... When I see them coming into play, I hit them with everything I've got until they are all dead, and when you have 23 gatling guns, 10 hackapells, 30 needle gunners, and 5 guard Uhlans hitting your artillery at the same time, about 4 of 8 pieces will go down before they can fully transition from the moving mode to firing mode.

    I can't help it if you don't pay close enough attention to in-game battles to take advantage of this fact, but hey, everyone has different strenghts and weaknesses (my weakness is rushing, which is why I've long since abandoned playing any of Blizzard's RTS games, since they only strategy for winning any of them is to rush the other players with as many of the cheapest unit that you can train as soon as you can)...... I served in the US military for 6 years, so that's given me a bit of an egde at setting priority targets for my army on the fly... I had to make split-second decisions on stuff like that or my entire ship and my friends would have been toast...

    kuzyk
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-15-07 06:15 PM EDT (US)     18 / 27       
    organ guns are the same as gatling guns. a gatling gun doesnt get the x(.5) vs arrow knights though.

    checkout MNBob's unit chart in general discussions.

    they do seem like they rock, even if they are just the same as an organ gun. look cool too.

    Hikaro Takayama
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-15-07 07:00 PM EDT (US)     19 / 27       
    Actually, there is just one difference... I guess it just seemed like they had a longer range, however I know that this last difference has to be right because I've seen it with my own eyes:

    Gatling guns have less spread to their projectiles, which I think makes eliminating single targets easier...

    For example, in game, the projectile trails coming from an organ gun are this far apart: [....]

    A gatling guns projectile trails look more like this [..], meaning that I guess they set it with a higher accuracy (like the Jaeger is basicaly a skirmisher with higher accuracy and lower attack), but the same attack as the organ gun....

    Anyways, I have a team strategy I generally use with one of my friends who LOVES to revolt: I play as a civ that gets lots of villagers, good resource collection upgrades and good defenses (say the Iroqouis), and when He revolts, I have my villagers in the fire pit do the population dance and train about 20-30 more villagers to work his plantations and mills, and if he starts running low on resources, I send him a few thousand each...

    My army is mostly on the defense, with my forest prowlers (my deck has the team scout infantry and Battlefield construction card so that my infantry are not only tougher and can see farther, but they can also re-build any war huts I lose) tommohawks and advanced native scouts defending our mega-fortress (basically a long wall with lots of my mighty war huts and about 4 of his revolutionary forts behind it that cuts off our side of the map from the enemy and serves as a forward base), while about 1/3 of my entire army which isn't assigned to base def (mostly Musket riders, native scouts, since they are actually better than the Kanya horsemen at destroying artillery and are generally better deal for the cost, as well as legendary field guns) joins his army as we take on one enemy town at a time.

    When the first town is destroyed, we re-arm and move onto the second one, rinse and repeat until all the opponents are dead or resign.

    Angel Walker
    Skirmisher
    (id: Just a player)
    posted 01-15-07 07:54 PM EDT (US)     20 / 27       

    Quoted from Hikaro Takayama:

    Gatling guns have less spread to their projectiles, which I think makes eliminating single targets easier...

    I have checked all necessary files, and I can safely say that Organ Guns and Gatling Guns are exactly like each other (Gatling Guns even use the Organ Gun tactics file), besides the fact Organ Guns do half damage vs Arrow Knights.

    About Revolution: In my opinion it only works to finish a game that has already been won - just like Trade Monopoly, but with some fight. It might work to get you the edge on the stalemate, but I really doubt you'd ever win a game that you were losing.


    ESO - Walker

    >> Napoleonic Era --> Visit their Homepage!
    "Holy *****" > Thunder (Ensemble Studios)

    Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
    dr nefarious
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-16-07 02:38 AM EDT (US)     21 / 27       

    Quote:

    I can attest that the Organ Guns DO have less of a range... About 1/2 to 2/3 of that of a gatling gun, and a player who knows what he's doing (namely me) can use that to their advantage.

    As I said, if that were true, you'd be right. But also as I said, it's complete nonsense, as a player who can read could easily check for himself in the proto or the unit tables floating around here. (It's 24 for both of them, by the way.)


    Quote:

    Hey, I don't mess around when it comes to artillery... When I see them coming into play, I hit them with everything I've got until they are all dead, and when you have 23 gatling guns, 10 hackapells, 30 needle gunners, and 5 guard Uhlans hitting your artillery at the same time, about 4 of 8 pieces will go down before they can fully transition from the moving mode to firing mode.

    Now was is "23 gatling guns, 10 hackapells, 30 needle gunners, and 5 guard Uhlans" or "20 gatling guns and a large force of Colonial militia"? Oh, never mind. Considering field guns and horse artillery both have longer range and line of sight than gatling guns the guy you played would have probably lost if you attacked him with two sheep and a llama.


    Quote:

    I served in the US military for 6 years, so that's given me a bit of an egde at setting priority targets for my army on the fly...

    I hope you came out in one piece, and have something more to show for it. Otherwise, what a waste of time considering any twelve year old kid with two weeks experience playing this came could do the same! You sound just like Ronald Reagan who in the early eighties proudly proclaimed that all those US video game junkies around at that time would later make excellent fighter pilots because of their "early training"...

    But we're getting off track here. The question was whether or not a revolution is worthwhile or not. While Earl Samsca above gave a neat example of a situation where someone won BECAUSE of a revolt you describe just that you beat some obviously completely incompetent opponent EVEN THOUGH you revolted. That's not the point. My Argentine Rush can win you games against this kind of opposition as well, but that still doesn't make it a good strategy.

    Quote:

    In my opinion it only works to finish a game that has already been won

    I think what Earl Samsca mentioned above is an example when it can actually win you a game instead of just not losing one.

    Hikaro Takayama
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-16-07 12:29 PM EDT (US)     22 / 27       
    Dr. Nefarious... I see that I may have confused you with my long-winded write up, so I'll make a short version of what I posted there with only the important details:

    First of all, I did not commit a SINGLE colonial militia in my attacking force... It was what I said before (a mixed army consisting of some powerful mercs, about 13 or so Cree trackers, the 23 gatling guns and 6 Howitzers)

    Second, My ENTIRE colonial Militia, 6 Czapfka Uhlans, 4 gatling guns and the remaining Cree trackers were stationed in my home base as a solely DEFENSIVE force (I lost the Uhlans taking out the artillery they had attacking my base, though).

    By the time my defensive force cleared the enemy units from my base, I hit them full on with the OFFENSIVE force in the first paragraph.

    And I did come back from Iraq in one piece, and I got more than just quick reflexes under tense situations out of it: my electronics training landed me a good entry level Elect Tech job, and I'm using my MGIB to pay for Electronics engineering courses...

    Although I do aggree with your comment about Reagan's statement about Video games making better fighter pilots. Just watch the FPS Doug episode of PurePwnage on Youtube....

    In addition, I also have one other significant advantage over "some 12 year-old who's been playing the game for 2 weeks": The fact that [feeling old]I've been playing RTS and TBS games on the PC for about as long as they've been ALIVE![/feeling old], and that experience, believe you me, counts for something, especially where thinking outside the box comes in....

    I also just recently discovered the PROTO.xml file (Maily because I just started learning how to program RMS scripts for Aoe III), and you are correct... I guess I'm going to have to try the Portugese now and see if I can duplicate that kind of strategy with their organ guns....

    However, to get back on topic, I say that I'd have to aggree with Just_A_Player 100%, and add that Revolting is sort of like (to use a chess analogy) the Castle-Kingside move in chess: The conditions under which it's useful are very limited, but an experienced player will be able to recognize them and know when to use it to the best effect.

    [This message has been edited by Hikaro Takayama (edited 01-16-2007 @ 03:40 PM).]

    its_a_titan
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-22-07 08:06 PM EDT (US)     23 / 27       
    I rekon revolt is best when the Trade route is on an island that u control (Caribbean, Amizonia maps) so with two factories and a Few trade posts u can still get resorces + gattling gun + ironclads + col militia (for wahat there worth!) and more forts. So revolt is good where you control trade.

    Revolt is also good 4 when u are about to win from a trade monopoly, a few extra defenders quick when u need them fast to hold 4 another min or so.


    "Sanity is madness put to good uses.": George Santayana
    Scamander
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-22-07 10:35 PM EDT (US)     24 / 27       
    Revolt is very powerful in treaty. My friends who play treaty have a strong revolution strat that they use around the 1950+ish/Lt Colonel mark, i.e. Top 50 ELO (Although it fizzles higher =/).

    In regular revolt is also very powerful in the right circumstances. I have played several team games where I have revolted and won, by either force of arms or by a trade monopoly.

    Trade monopoly is not as easy to counter as everyone seems to believe, Walls + Forts + X Musk + Current Army + Ironclads, can be very effective in beating off the opposition.

    The main problem with this army is that it lacks diversification, you get alot of HI and nothing else, that is why it is important you have your factories safe. The thing is though if your opponent is not prepared, you can catch them without adequate counters, and win.

    BtW do not compare it to IMP that costs FAR more.

    [This message has been edited by Scamander (edited 01-22-2007 @ 10:37 PM).]

    Hikaro Takayama
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-22-07 11:08 PM EDT (US)     25 / 27       
    Scamander: Trade Monopoly is even harder to counter when the player doing the primary trading post securing (or better, all players) ship the Advanced Trading Post and Improved buildings cards... With those two cards ALONE, Trading posts have 7800 HP and the same attack as an outpost, making them a handy exta defensive building (not to mention almost as hard to kill as an unupgraded fort)... When you couple that with the fact that a revoulutionary player who has saved up 3 HC shipments can pretty quickly have a fort at every single TP site (like my friend, Lord_Nanaki, a.k.a. Mr. Revolty McRevolution, did in one game we won with a trade monopoly), and a Trade Monopoly becomes almost impossible to break in the alloted time....
    Scamander
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-22-07 11:12 PM EDT (US)     26 / 27       
    yeah one of the real keys to revolution is knowing that you might do it from the beginning, and just feeling the pace of the game to see if it will ever work, and then once you feel the time is right hitting the revolution button.

    Just clicking the button when you are losing is a sure way to speed up the process.

    [This message has been edited by Scamander (edited 01-22-2007 @ 11:13 PM).]

    dr nefarious
    Skirmisher
    posted 01-23-07 09:37 AM EDT (US)     27 / 27       

    Quote:

    I rekon revolt is best when the Trade route is on an island that u control (Caribbean, Amizonia maps) so with two factories and a Few trade posts u can still get resorces + gattling gun + ironclads + col militia (for wahat there worth!) and more forts. So revolt is good where you control trade.

    I beg to differ: "Revolt is not necessarily going to kill you if you control trade." The revolutionary units are all weaker than their "normal" Age 4 counterparts (Gatling guns vs. falconets, ironclads vs. frigates, militia vs. e.g. guard musketeers), and forts will go down in seconds under howitzer fire. The only advantage you have compared to a "normal" Age 4 army is the huge number of colonial militia you get immediately after the revolt, once those are gone you'll wish for a full-fledged Age 4 economy to cover your losses.


    Quote:

    Revolt is very powerful in treaty. My friends who play treaty have a strong revolution strat that they use around the 1950+ish/Lt Colonel mark, i.e. Top 50 ELO (Although it fizzles higher =/).

    Can you elaborate on that a bit more? In a treaty game you'll face masses of fully upgraded imperial units, backed up by a fully upgraded Age 5 economy. How are puny gatling guns and colonial militia (with basically no supporting economy) supposed to stand up to those? (I know you said we should not compare with Age 5, but in a treaty game those costs don't really matter.)


    Quote:

    Trade Monopoly is even harder to counter when the player doing the primary trading post securing (or better, all players) ship the Advanced Trading Post and Improved buildings cards... With those two cards ALONE, Trading posts have 7800 HP and the same attack as an outpost, making them a handy exta defensive building (not to mention almost as hard to kill as an unupgraded fort)... When you couple that with the fact that a revoulutionary player who has saved up 3 HC shipments can pretty quickly have a fort at every single TP site, and a Trade Monopoly becomes almost impossible to break in the alloted time....

    If the opponent is beaten at that point anyway, or if you battle the AI, you may be right. Any human player worth his salt will knock down your forts and TPs with howitzers or monitors faster than you can find out where the horn sounded this time. (Remember: You have to cover them all, he has to kill only one.)

    You must be logged in to post messages.
    Please login or register

    Hop to:    

    Age of Empires III Heaven | HeavenGames