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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » Sick of these natives
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Topic Subject:Sick of these natives
OpenWar
Skirmisher
posted 01-15-07 02:56 PM EDT (US)         
I started TWC with a win% of 100- 5 wins/5 games. Then, I played 4 people playing as the natives thinking that my heavy artillery would just mow them down...but the NUMBER of units. Wow. Natives owned my spanish just now...am I just not used to the gameplay yet?

Grr--Anyone have some anti-native/native rush strategies? Thanks...


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George_uk
Skirmisher
posted 01-15-07 03:14 PM EDT (US)     1 / 17       
I think you should play more than 9 games to judge. You will adapt eventually...

Previously known as MoNo Ager
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 01-15-07 03:24 PM EDT (US)     2 / 17       
Which natives?
Angel Walker
Skirmisher
(id: Just a player)
posted 01-15-07 03:28 PM EDT (US)     3 / 17       
George_uk is right, you need more time than that.

Still, you should give more info. Which natives did you lose, how did you lose, etc.


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Sparafucile
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 00:01 AM EDT (US)     4 / 17       
The best thing you can remember is that "The Warchiefs" is all about giving really unfair advantages to the civilizations that have warchiefs. All the native civs can
1) Rush better than the euro civs
2) Boom better than the native civs

But that's not all folks. They each have their own form of super duper combo that is so ... no skill and lame.

Lets take a mortar, a culverin and falconet and combine them. Instead of increasing the cost, lets decrease it. We'll call them light cannons.

Lets make an archer unit that out ranges all artillery and kills buildings and cannons. We'll call it the Arrow Knight

Furthermore, all the base units of the natives are greater than euro equiv.

From Cetans which are better than xbows to wakinas that are better than skirmishers.

The Warchiefs are way better than explorers with insane creeping abilities and bonuses that only get better in each age. can kill 8 cannons in one hit ... the native civs have no lack of advantages.

If you want to have a good match with the euro civs, stick to vanilla. Otherwise, jump on the native bandwagon.

MockHamill
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 04:21 AM EDT (US)     5 / 17       
Sparafucile,

That is simply not true. Spain, Dutch, French and Otto can easily stand up to the natives.

StonewallJ
Seraph Emeritus
(id: Conquistador34)
posted 01-16-07 07:08 AM EDT (US)     6 / 17       
Ya Sparafucile, Natives can be beteen easily by a lot of euro civs, dpending on the strategy. I will give you that the Sioux have a few too good military units, Aztecs are good on water, and Iros have a good turtle. But every civ is good at something.

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scriv1984
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 07:14 AM EDT (US)     7 / 17       
heavy artillery should mow down most things, but you have to protect them with a meat-shield. Play the natives like you would play any european civ. Know what units to expect and know what units to use in different situations.
And to be honest, the first 5 games you play are always going to be the easiest. I think i won my first 9 out of 10, and still even after 20 or so games i was 75% win. After that, i have dropped sharply and after about 50 games i have not much over 50%.
Destiny_Devil
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 11:19 AM EDT (US)     8 / 17       
yeah aztec are insanley op with their huge weakness to the games base type unit, classic li, and their uber war chief with no special abilities like eagle shot or uber cannon killing power and his aura which is the worst out of any of them.
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 12:03 PM EDT (US)     9 / 17       
And their super politicians making their OP warchief even better!
Hikaro Takayama
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 12:15 PM EDT (US)     10 / 17       
Here's some weaknesses I've noticed that the natives DO have (both from playing as and against):

No artillery, except for the Iroquois, meaning that they have trouble taking down a well-fortified and defended (can't rely on buildings alone to defend your base) base or forward military base.

Weak defenses: They only get War huts (and in the Aztec's case Nobles huts as well), and on top of that the Souix can't even build WALLS (they can basically be thought of as AoE III WC equivalent to the Goths from AoC)... Basically a good mixed army with a team of about 6 Heavy cannons or Mortars can reduce a Native's entire frontline defenses to rubble in a matter of minutes, which, when your army rushes through the gap, will spell doom for the rest of their base as well.

No Factories: Big one here; No hvy artillery for free resources for them, which puts them at a bit of a disadvantage, economically in the IND age and later.

They also get the fewest Economic gathering upgrade cards as well (no royal mint, few, if any plantation or farm cards, etc)

In addition, here are some civ-specific weaknesses I've noticed:

Aztecs: See above post plus no artillery of any kind

Iroquois: Their hand cavalry (i.e. their only defense against massed artillery) is expensive and one of, if not the weakest in the game (My germans UHLANS outlast my Kanya horsemen when I send them to take out artillery)

Souix: No artillery at all, and no walls plus a rather weak economy (although the Earth Bounty card counterracts this a bit)

In addition, I find that concentrating on killing any native's Warchief as fast as possible during the initial engagement can turn the fight in your favor, since his aura will no longer be boosting nearby unit stats... Mercs also tend to be really nasty against Natives (especially since they cannot train any of their own), particularly Ronin and Highlanders.

Sparafucile
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 01:29 PM EDT (US)     11 / 17       
It's true that natives don't have artillery (except for light cannons) ... but they don't need them.

Their basic units are stronger than the euro civs and will win in a straight up fight.

The euro civs have cannons to turn the tide in their favor BUT
every native civ has an incredibly imba way to kill cannons

Arrow knight, light cannons, warchief, rifle riders etc ...

Once the cannons are taken care of, the natives just have to rely on their overpowered units to win in a straight up fight.

Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 01-16-07 02:03 PM EDT (US)     12 / 17       
I KNOW you haven't played as a native from that post.

Try Kanya horsemen vs Hussars, I'd pick hussars every time.

Culvs beat artillery just as well as LC

Arrow Knights do 12.5 damage to artillery(Including resist) and lose to any other military unit. OP?

Tomahawks vs Muskets, I'd pick Muskets every time.

OP?

wilson0825
Skirmisher
posted 01-17-07 03:27 PM EDT (US)     13 / 17       
Easy to beat Aztec, mass all Skims to kill their units.
Except Coyette is more of a Cav. Use Helb beat them well.

Iroquos units are all weak.

Sioux bad eco at age 3 and after.


[img]http://www.skwizz.com/aoe_sign/Wilson@5@81@1@aoe3x@250,250,250@220,172,58.png[/img]

[This message has been edited by wilson0825 (edited 01-17-2007 @ 03:28 PM).]

Cyclohexane
Skirmisher
posted 01-17-07 04:16 PM EDT (US)     14 / 17       
Iro light cannon is definitely not the best in the game but is the most versatile. Their ROF is 6.0 with a very small area of attack of 2.0. They absolutely suck against infantry, especially light infantry with decent range or fast melee troops (in stagger mode). I'd choose light over heavy since prowlers will not get a bonus either. They only do 140 damage to infantry and artillery with such a slow ROF, their cannon is used as culverins (but much worse at killing artillery) and against buildings (worse than a falconet). Yes they kind of do everything, but not very well.

I suggest playing the Natives to learn their weaknesses. Then go exploit them.


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Osheal
Skirmisher
posted 01-17-07 08:21 PM EDT (US)     15 / 17       
you might want to use the compare tool in my sig to compare falc, culverin and light cannon. Light cannon are a great unit. They are better at killing seige than culverin since they have the same range but do higher dmg than a culverin and it is hard for culverin to counter them for the same reason.
They are about as half as effective vs infantry than falcs but twice as effective vs infantry as culverin which puts them right in the middle. Add in that they have a greater range than falcs and their effectiveness climbs a bit more.
they may not have the seige dmg of a falc either but they outrange an unupgraded fort and do enough seige to not have to worry about making something else.
SultanPetya
Skirmisher
posted 01-18-07 07:15 AM EDT (US)     16 / 17       
Cut iroq off the food and they die. They cant even send in much food. Or use other native skirmishers which can be build as soon as you hit age 2 if you have built a TP on a village against early tomahawks.
Dieneces
Skirmisher
posted 01-19-07 08:04 AM EDT (US)     17 / 17       

Quote:

Iroquos units are all weak.

Ever heard of Forest Prowlers?


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