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Topic Subject: Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
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posted 02-12-07 10:54 PM EDT (US)   
Sioux Survival Guide
By Smear

Everyone Thinks the Sioux canít match up to Civís like France or Spain. France can just Fast fortress and bring cuirs and cannon up your ass. Spain will fast fortress too and just spam shipments at you until you run out of resources. Correct? What about iro? It seems nobody can beat there Fast fortress. And letís not forget about Dutch, Russia, and British who all need to be dealt with at some time or another. Well I am going to teach you how to beat this, along with some more strats to beat other civs. Letís start with the basics of the Sioux.

Basics of Sioux

~Warchief:
This guy is OP. He has a speed of 8.10 and can convert treasure guardians. With him you can scout the map for very good treasures in less then a minute depending on the map. Not to mention you can raid with him and nobody can catch you in age 2 and even age 3. And why stop with raiding? Put him behind some wakina or cetan and they can hit and run like no other. ALWAYS Use your Warchief even if you donít think he will help. He probably will.

~No houses:
Having no houses is one of the best advantages in this game. You can make units whenever you want. You donít have to spend as much time chopping wood and you can ship shipments that take up 60 pop room! And not have to worry.

~Cavalry
Sioux cavalry is some of the best in the game.
-Dog soldier shipments, though small, can really turn the tide of the game in age 2 or 3.
-Axe riders can cost a lot but hey youíre Sioux you donít need food right? They are stronger then normal hussar too and are a raiding machine when combined with your warchief.
-And lets not forget Rifle Riders. These guys with proper hit and running techniques can stop any rod spam/jan spam/musket/cav spams. Donít forget to always hit and run with them.

~Infantry
We all know that Sioux are supposed to be a cavalry civ. But somewhere along the line ES decided to hand them some pretty good infantry. Letís take a look at them.
-Cetan. These guys can be easily spammed in age 2 and can take out most other LI with proper micro. And when supported by axe and bears they are a force to be reckoned with.
-Clubman. IMO these guys arenít that great. But if you need some extra siege then the shipment of them isnít that bad. But only make them if youíre trying to take down some buildings. More on this later when we get to the club rush.
-Wakina. Let me let you in on a little secret I learned from _sephiroth_. These little guys are OP and nobody knows. Theyíre dirt cheap, 60 food and 30 gold for a unit that almost matches a forest prowler? Are you serious? Lets take a look at there stats:

Wakina
60 food 30 gold, 85 hit points, 29 seconds to build, 121 villa time, 16 damage with bonus

Forest prowlers
50 food 65 gold, 110 hit points, 33 seconds to build, 167 villa time, 18 damage with bonus

The Wakina Rifle Costs less, only has 25 less hitpoints, takes less time to build and less time to gather for and only has 2 less damage then a forest prowler. Not that bad for a civ thatís supposed to use OP cavalry.

Ok now lets move on to some strats.

Sioux Fast Fortress Spam

Everyone knows that Sioux are famous for there cetan spam *laming* But what if your up against a French or spain player. Or even another Sioux player? Are you going to rely on your micro vs the Sioux? Are you going to hope that the French player doesnít FF and get cuirs? Or are you going to just sit back and let the spain player spam shipments at you all night long? NO of course not! This is how to beat them. MATCH their FF with one of your own! Hereís how you do it.

Discovery Age
-2 villaís to hunt
-3 to crates
-First card 3 villagers
-Try to scout for some good treasure with your warchief. Try to get all the gold treasures you can.
-Start to herd a second huntable toward your tc.
-Age with 15 villagers around 3:20 with the 400 wood chief.

Transition: Discovery/Colonial
-Now you need to collect 300 gold somehow. Whether through treasures or mining. Here is how I do it depending on how much gold you have at this point
100g = 5 villagers on mine
200g = 4 villagers on mine

Colonial Age
-Once you age and have 300 gold send the gold miners to collect the 400 wood and make a warhut, If your enemy is going to rush you within the next couple minutes, IE Sioux mirror, then I would suggest putting the rax behind your tc, Since the Sioux doesnít have that good of siege you can use your tc to pick off there units, Just make sure you can still Hunt during this time.
-As soon as you age send 700 gold. When it arrives have your gold miners, which are now warhut builders, collect it ASAP.
-When you have enough to age, age with the messenger, Now hereís the thing though. In SOME instances it is ok to age with the 4 axe rider chief, but only when you know you wonít be attacked and that your opponent wont get to fort before you do. You will have to be the judge of that though. You should age around 6 minutes if done right

Transition: Colonial/Fortress
-Put 5 villagers back on gold, 11 on food.

Fortress Age
-Arive in fort around 7 minutes if you aged with the fast chief, As soon as you age, queue one villager, as many wakina as you can and send 3 dog soilders if facing Sioux. If you are facing spain send 5 rifle riders to take care of there heavy infantry spamming and lancer spamming, Also send 5 rifle riders if you know your French enemy Fast fortressed, If he was dumb and thought you were going to colonial fight then send 3 dog soldiers.
-Keep spamming wakina. They are very cheap and you should be able to get 5 coming out each time while spamming villagers.
-When your shipment arrives you can choose to attack or defend or wait for more units
-My advice. If your going vs a French wait til you have your second shipment and send 5 axe or 3 dog soldier, then attack with 15 or so wakina 5 rifle and 5 axe riders, he will only have skirm and if heís smart the 3 cuir card. Micro him to death sil vous plait.
-If youíre going vs. a Spain then a slightly hard road follows you. You will have to micro your cav to keep out of the rods way while still defending your wakina from lancers or cannon. My advice is to go heavy on the rifle rider shipments and keep them alive! Once those shipments run out send the wakina one or 5 axe riders depending on whatís going on.
-If your going vs Sioux and he was dumb enough to try and rush you with cetan then keep the cav shipments coming, 3 dog soldiers followed by 5 axe riders, even if he sent his cav shipments the dog soldiers themselves will be able to keep him at bay with wakina backup and proper micro.

This strat also works well vs brit, Russia and the occasional germany. Russia just fast fortress and get dog soilders and cav. They cant do anything vs them in age 2. The british player will be to busy booming to realize that axe riders and dog soldiers kick there lbs ass and if they go for musket or pike you have wakina.

And germany.. lets just say.. if you cant beat germany.. I pity you.

Some tips:
~Lets remember that the basic principle of this strat is to keep your wakina alive while spamming shipments, If you lose your wakina then your basically done for.
~Another idea would be to put some villagers on a firepit during age to fortress and use the gift dance to get your shipments faster.
~I would also think about adding the 10 renegado allies to your fast fortress deck. if your rush needs some extra umpf or some siege 500 gold for these guys aint so bad. they also count as some excelent anti infantry.
-This strat also works vs Aztec, all you have to do is collect your age up material while building a warhut in a secret place incase he attacks your tc. Once u age send wakina and rifle riders to kill his bb rush. Then its gg.

Recordings
-Here is one vs Sioux
http://www.savefile.com/files/487354
-Here is one vs Spain
http://www.savefile.com/files/487346
-Here is one vs French
http://www.savefile.com/files/487360


Ottoman Strangle

Now what to do vs those pesky ottomans who spam you with OP abuse guns and Janz. Quite simple really. Rush them before they can mass enough units! And while your at it, strangle there economy! Heres how:

Discovery Age
-Basic Sioux colonial.
-Age with 15, 500 food poli.

Transition
-As you age put either 3 or 5 villagers on wood depending on how much wood you started with. Make a rax a soon as you can

Colonial
-As soon as you age send 4 axeís
-queue as many cetan as you can
-collect 500 food and queue a few villagers
-You should have about 7 villagers on wood and the rest on food
-Next shipment is 2 dog soldiers
-As soon as your 4 axeís arrive GO RAID take out as many villagers as you can without losing any axe. If you happen upon a few abus coming out of an artillery range and there are no janz in sight then by all meens destroy them. Just DONíT lose any of your axeís or your warchief.
-When you have 10 cetan go attack his 5-10 janz that he should have made. Pick them off, you are not going for the win just yet, your are hitting and running his Lame Op abusing ass to death! If he starts to go abus and you cant hit and run anymore then act like your hitting and running and draw his janz off his abus. Then rush in with your 4 axe 2 dogs and wc and destroy the abus, then get the hell out of there. Use cetan on janz always!
-Next shipment is 700 gold
-Chop 200 wood and make a stable
-Mass axe and if you have enough food keep making cetan.
-The second battle should take place soon as your ottoman enemy thinks that he can take you on. If he attacks then micro him to death. I cant give any details on hints on how to beat him here, it all depends on YOUR MICRO. Axe on abus always and Cetan on janz always. Never let up.
-At this Point the ottoman is either going for a silk road to keep his eco stable or his shipments are starting to run out. If he has tps try and take them out without losing any units, If he doesnít have tps then try to raid with your wc and pick off some janz.

Some tips
-At some point I advise making a firepit and boom some villagers, The basic principle of this strat is to always keep him on the defensive and if he does go offensive you are able to stop him and not die. Also the point is to wear the ottoman out til his eco is in shambles and you can just walk into his base and he has little or no army.
-KEEP RAIDING, if there is a lul in the battle and you have some axes and your wc then go raid! Just donít lose any horses. Even taking out 1 of your opponents villagers will set him back a bit. After his shipments run out of course
-There isnít much I can tell you about finishing him off, Each game vs an ottoman is different and I mostly play it by ear, If your opponent does get to fortress u will need some rifle riders to fight off spahi.

Recordings
-Here is one on texas, donít worry the map didnít play a part in the outcome, or at least. IMO it didnít haha.
http://www.savefile.com/files/487380


Ottoman Strangle, Variation 2

After an intelligent post by some forumers on HG I decided to test our the evening star card vs Ottomans, Surprisingly it completely murdered ottomans everywhere and most were like ďwtf Iíve never seen that beforeĒ or ďThat completely caught me off guardĒ
So how do you use this card to the Siouxís advantage? Heres how..

Discovery
-Regular Sioux age
-Age with 500 food poli

Transition
-Move villagers to wood
-Once you have 200 wood all villagers back on food
-Put about 4 villagers on gold

Colonial
-Collect 500 food
-Queue villager
-Make a stable
-Send 4 Axe
-Once stable is complete Queue 5 axe
-When you get your 9 axe and your warchief go raid the ottoman, Just piss him off for awhile while you continue to mass axe riders, If hes going for the IOR then kill his explorer ASAP
-Send 2 dog soldiers
-By now the ottoman should think your going all axe, So he will mass janz like a mofo, This is where the evening star comes in.
-Once you get around 17 axe riders send your evening star card, If your opponent attacks with his janz then run your cav away and keep them alive
-Once the evening star card is about to arrive run your cav at him, Whether he is attacking your base or just sitting in his own. If you have a clear shot at his villagers then go kill like 2-3 of them before you switch to rifle riders. He will run his janz in thinking your on a raid and then BAM rifle rider shot to the face bitch! I have literally taken out 30 jan armies with this. And thatís 3k food down the drain right there.
-At this point keep massing axe and keep your rifle riders alive. Once you take out his army then keep raiding his base and taking out villagers. He will either quit out of Anger or keep on fighting hoping he can mass enough units to fight you. He might switch to abus to counter rifle riders and if he does then its GG, If he doesnít.. well.. Its GG still cuz rifle riders still pwn him.

Some Tips
-Send your club cards to take out some houses, You wont belive how pissed he will become when he has no army, his villas cant gather AND he is popped.
-I have found that this strat beats anything the ottoman can do if its done correctly. I love it
-I would recommend to ALWAYS use this strat vs an ottoman.. although if u cant for some reason or just wish to win without being OP then use my first variation.

Heres a couple recís enjoy:
http://www.savefile.com/files/499728
This one I was testing out the strat vs a friend, Watch the ending to find out a secret word!
http://www.savefile.com/files/499794
This one is vs.. SEPHIROTH!! THE LAMER OF ALL OTTOMAN LAMERS. THE MIGHTIEST OF ALL .. MIGHTY.. PEOPLEÖ

Enjoy mates

2 TP FF Spam

So now we have strats vs Otto/ Sioux/ French/ Spain/ Russia. Now what about British? They will just outboom you if you donít rush right?! Omg what do we do, you say to me. Well what else would you do. Fast fortress vs them. Lol no Iím not joking were going to fast fortress vs a booming civ. They will make the wrong units like LB and you will easily be able to counter them in fortress. Heres how you do it:

Discovery
-Regular Sioux discovery
-15 villa age
-Age with the messenger, THATíS RIGHT the messenger!

Transition
-3 villagers to gold or 4 depending on how much gold you started with
-Try to get another herd near you

Colonial
-Send 700 gold as soon as you age
-Collect with 4 villaís that were on gold, rest are still on hunts
-Age with 800 wood ASAP

Transition
-4 villa on gold, rest on food

Fortress
-Send 5 axe shipment
-Collect 800 wood
-Make 2 tps
-Send axeís to go raid if you can without your warchief because he is making tps. If you cannot do it safely then do not bother.
-Make a warhut
-Spam wakina
-Keep up villager production
-Make a fire pit
-These steps should all take place relatively quickly upon entering fortress age
-Next shipment is 3 dog soldiers
-As soon as you get around 10 wakina start to pick off his villagers or soldiers that he has made. Considering they are british and dutch they will most likely have longbow or skirm. Maybe even musket if they think you will go all cav. Either way we are in the advantage here. Lure them out a bit from there base then run in with cavalry and wakina and destroy there army. If they happened to make pikes then run your cav around a bit while picking off the pike with wakina. If they have no pikes then this should be pretty easy.
-Next shipments are 4 axe, 9 wakina, clubman shipments

Some tips
-Make sure you take full advantage of the siege dance at the firepit. Once you take out there armies you should switch to siege dance and start to rip down there tc/outposts that they have made.
-Always go for villagers, If your attack does happen to fail any villagers that you do kill will equalize the economic advantage that these boom civs have on you.
-This strat can be used vs many other civs too. But it depends on the situation

Recordings
-Here is one vs british
http://www.savefile.com/files/487382


Classical Club Rush

Now we need a strat vs Port/Dutch. This Pesky UP civ can cause a lot of problems for Sioux believe it or not. If they get there 3 tcís up and are able to get to fortress then your dead, cassadores and goons counter everything you can throw at them, belive me if they get to fortress itís a NIGHTMARE for a Sioux player. And then dutch, what are you going to let them ff and get cannon/halbs? Hell no. So the only way to stop this is an all or nothing club rush. Heres how:

Discovery
-Regular Sioux age
-Age with 15, 400 wood poli
-Here is where the discovery age changes a bit. Try to find some good treasure guardians that can siege and convert them before the port ages. Get 1 or 2 depending. Once the Port ages rush those guardians in and Attack his tc cart. He will most likely get the tc foundation going unless he is a complete noob. Siege the foundation

Transition
-All villas stay on food
-3 forward near ports base

Colonial
-As soon as you age send the 6 clubman card
-Collect 400 wood
-Make warhut with forward villaís
-5 villagers to wood
-When you get your first clubs attack the town center that your warchief has been attacking
-Spam clubman from wh
-Next shipment is 6 cetan
-Keep up the attack on the town center until it is finished. If he sends for minute men then retreat for a couple seconds (wait for another batch of units for example) then continue your attack
-4 axe is next shipment
-If your opponent chose to not FF and is spamming a certain type of unit then stop making clubs and make cetan, most likely though you should take out his 2nd tc before you switch to cetan.

Some tips
-Playing vs a Port is another strat where your going to have to play it by ear. It depends a lot on what your opponent does. If he fights it out in colonial then go heavy on cetan and axe shipments. If he chooses to FF then go heavy on clubman with axe shipments.


Recording
-Here is one vs Port
http://www.savefile.com/files/487387

Sioux Fast Fortress SLAP!

And Now we have a strat vs All the Civs except for the lamest of them all. Iroquois Confederation.. They will Fast fortress and most likely get forest prowler/musket riders. So what do you do?! You Slap that bitch! SLAP! An Axe to the face! SLAP Wakina bullet to the head! Heres how:

Normal Discovery
Age with 400 wood

Transition:
Build a trading post if you have the wood, if you donít wait til you gather the 400 wood and build one.
Switch some villagers to gold so you have 300 when u age.

Colonial:
Collect wood
Make tp if you havnt
Build a blockhouse
Send 700 gold

Once it arrives collect it and Age with the 4 axe rider chief.

Transition:

During age put some villagers on wood if you can get another tp up. If you are currently at 0 wood then just put the villagers on gold, doesnít matter that much.

During age up send 4 axe rider shipment too

Fortress:
Spam wakina
Send 5 axe
Send 3 dog soldiers

By now your opponent is probably attacking you with forest prowlers. Precede to Slap him in the face with your cavalry/wakina combo. If he has some musket riders with him then micro them to death with your wakina.
Once you completely outmicro and OUTLAME his army precede to completely destroy any forward base that he might have made.

Send 9 wakina for backup
If you can raid safely now is the time to do it while you are building up your siege force.
Send 1k food
Get dog soldier big button to add that extra umpf to your siege force.

If you have not won the game by now because he hasnít resigned out of frustration because his laming didnít work, Then you may proceed to completely Slap this lamer in the face.

Some Tips:
~If the iro decides to fast rush then put the warhut behind your base where he cant see it and plop out 5 cetan, that is more then enough to take out his rush. if you have to send the 2 dog soldier and micro his units to death, he will probly resign after that since his rush FAILED. But if he doesnt, then go fortress and get wakina
-If you look at the iroís deck early and see hes going to turtle with great house then do the classical club rush. Otherwise use this.

Recording:
http://www.savefile.com/files/502520

Happy Hunting


So that is my guide so far. If you have any suggestions please do tell and I will be uploading some recordings for them in a second.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall

[This message has been edited by Smear (edited 02-21-2007 @ 02:09 PM).]

Replies:
posted 02-12-07 11:37 PM EDT (US)     1 / 96  
WOW THATS LONG. GOOD FREAKING JOB.

subliminal messages
Can you find it...?

Chuck Norris.

posted 02-13-07 03:39 AM EDT (US)     2 / 96  
*HINT* go mass ARs vs Ottomans *HINT*

Dont even bother with Cetans. Just build your stable behind TC, age with either 500F for more Axes or 400W if you also need a firepit sooner or later.

Spam ARs, ship 4+3 of them, then 2 DS, raid his butt. By the time you have ~10-15 ARs (including shipments) he will most likely have ~15-20 jans. If he has 10 or less jans, and some abus (thinking you will go cetans) just murder his abus on the spot.

Its a pain for the Ottoman. He cant hunt (ARs ftw), cant train many units (TPs wont help you if all your vills are garrisoned), cant engage your base, because if he does it, THIS happens. 2 possible scenarios:

#1: He has only jans and has like 3-2 jans to your ARs. Ship evening star. RAPE HIS ARMY!! RRs wtfown jans, unless they get caught in melee which never will happen. Chase his army, dont let a SINGLE jan survive.

After that, simply spam more ARs for any abus (who eat RRs), chop some wood for a rax for clubs to take out any TPs he has, ship 3 TP card and you can do what you want from then on. The game is yours. His eco is crap, his army is dead, your army is way bigger, et cetera.

#2: He has like 18ish jans and 5 ish abus. For this you simply need good micro, wait till he attacks your base, ship evening star, and just before it arrives charge in and take the abus out (also use TC fire for that matter) and then simply murder his 15-20 jans with a similar big number of RRs.

He cant do sh1t. Then continue doing the same thing as above. If he doesnt have any silkroad TPs, simply storm his base and murder any abus/jans coming out of foundry/rax ASAP.

You may think "going mass cav vs a HI masser like Ottomans is suicide". But you're wrong. It isnt suicidal at all.
Why? Because of a few things:

-Sioux get Dogsoldiers in age2 which are basically lancers (stronger ones) and therefore tear through abus and also beat jans to some extent)
-Sioux have their warchief who makes raiding a lot more deadly
-Sioux get a shipment of FOUR axe riders in age2 (compare to 3 hussars) AND also a 3 AR shipment
-Sioux get that nasty card which everyone finds useless, called Evening Star (but I can tell you, it is not useless)

In case he does the IOR with ATP as first card, simply go to his forward base and take it out with Axe Riders (yes, I said Axe Riders) because in small numbers ARs even beat jans.

Here two games I played vs LieS to prove my point (in the games he also made great use of the firepit very early which made his economy, together with his raiding, WAY superior to mine):

Game2 on California (his few cetans didnt have any impact on the game and were built later on when I had guard jans already and no abus):
http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameStats.aspx?loc=en-US&GameID=1f025cfe-1833-44d0-8523-8fb054118cbf&s Flag=1&md=ZS_Supremacy

Game1 on Yukon:
http://www.agecommunity.com/stats/GameStats.aspx?loc=en-US&GameID=5a7b063c-50aa-486a-aae6-acd1a11e42c4&s Flag=1&md=ZS_Supremacy

posted 02-13-07 09:24 AM EDT (US)     3 / 96  
You Know, I always thought there might be a better way to beat ottoman. I even looked at the evening star But i never really thought that timing the card right could whipe out his abus and janz. Thats a good Idea Volt thanks for the advice. Although Every game i have played vs an ottoman using the classic cetan and 4 axe 2 lakota i have won so i might just trust my micro still instead of trying this. But i will try it in some unrates definantly.

Oh and also. what if he does a pure jan rush and attacks right away with ten janz? You wouldnt want to waste evening star on 10 janz and only get like 9 rifle riders out of it would you? Just wondering. This is why i think the regular cetan rush works best. Trust your micro ya know?

Anyone else got some comments? It would be much apreciated.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall

[This message has been edited by Smear (edited 02-13-2007 @ 09:39 AM).]

posted 02-13-07 12:37 PM EDT (US)     4 / 96  
I like that guide a lot. It was a nice read (especially since I'm trying to pick up Sioux). Very nicely done.

ESO: JarlNick

Want to talk OP? AOE3 Abus Guns at release were nightmares. But I knew how to take care of them! Beware my Culverins you artillery bastards! Oh wait...- MNBob

posted 02-13-07 12:44 PM EDT (US)     5 / 96  
Well if he does a regular jan rush with 10 jans in your base, you'll have ~9 ARs by the time he arrives, with 5 more queued. If he sieges your stable, simply put 10 vills in the TC and attack with your ARs.

If you get some hits off before he puts his jans in melee, its gg anyway. Even if he doesnt, simply retreat the 1 AR hes attacking with his jans to mess up the jans' pathing. Works even vs pikes, and jans dont have such a great anti-cav attack.

With some micro you should win this easily. And as soon as his first 10 jans are gone, he'll only have groups of 5 AND have a crappy economy (whilst yours is way better).

Cetan rush is of course also a decent option, the only thing I dislike about it is the vulnurability of your cetans once he has some abus.

With only cav shipments, a decent jan meatshield is hard to get through and abus own cetans. Also, it makes your raiding weaker.

posted 02-13-07 12:48 PM EDT (US)     6 / 96  

Quote:

And germany.. lets just say.. if you cant beat germany.. I pity you.

Then you'll have to pity some Sioux because of me

Against Sioux that I know are going to ff, I grab some TPs, go stagecoach and advance a minute or two later, but with a much better eco. Mostly I ship jšger upon ageup (except when it is obvious they're going to spam something melee cav-ish). They, and the occasionaly Uhlan, kill those wakinas well enough for my trade route to come in effect so I can afford falcs. Then I go for a counteroffensive.

posted 02-13-07 12:53 PM EDT (US)     7 / 96  
jeez, makes me wonder how to beat em

gotta dust off my port HC methinks...



Currently retired from AOE3... moved on to LOTRO... yeah an MMO... but a fun one!
Hockey fan for Life:
"I believe the Canucks of Vancouver are formidable warriors." -Teal'c, Stargate SG-1
posted 02-13-07 01:14 PM EDT (US)     8 / 96  
what does the evening star card do?

I MADE IT!!!
I posted in a closed thread after a mod!

Meet the bagpipe performer!

posted 02-13-07 01:59 PM EDT (US)     9 / 96  
Evening star changes all axe riders into rifle riders.

I'm not sure club rushing is necessary against ports. FFing is also a viable option. Put up a TP or two and just spam shipments the whole game. You can even outboom him if you use the firepit well enough. In my few games with sioux I never had problems with portuguesse players.

posted 02-13-07 02:08 PM EDT (US)     10 / 96  
Very nice strategies, I've been wondering if dog soldiers were a good option or not and this answered it.
posted 02-13-07 02:09 PM EDT (US)     11 / 96  

Quote:

Put up a TP or two and just spam shipments the whole game.

Would it be beneficial to use the 3 TP shipment?

posted 02-13-07 07:33 PM EDT (US)     12 / 96  
Lol Seph you've never had a problem because your a 2200 major general xD Seriously though I Really dont like to FF vs a Port If you could find me a record of you beating a legit port player like walker then I would belive you.


@Mediolanus
I dont think the 3 tp shipment would work because you spend 1 shipment on 3 villa 1 on 700 gold and then 1 on a fortress shipment to attack with. By the time you get the 3 tp's up the first battles have already begun usually. Although vs a port this might be affective to use as a 3rd shipment and then spam a huge army and attack the port.

About your germans. Many Germans that i face i usually Cetan/Club rush because, Like you stated, There FF is one that can actually stop the sioux. I Find it really aquward that Port and Germany are the only civ that can really stop the sioux ff with their ff. If the sioux ff is done right of course. Its kind of cool in many respects.

@Volt
I like your idea and I'll try it sometime. But one thing. How do you strike back? Rifle riders and axe riders dont have great seige and if your facing an otto he could probably plop 2 towers up, Maybe just raid him to death? But he can still live off shipments.. Like i stated in my strat, I think playing vs otto you just have to play it by ear and see wat he does..


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall

[This message has been edited by Smear (edited 02-13-2007 @ 07:36 PM).]

posted 02-13-07 07:35 PM EDT (US)     13 / 96  
3 TPs would work but I think their strats are more based on raiding. I like to keep a whole bunch of cards that are more economy/building based as well as units in case I do poorly (3 TP, 15 buffalo, 2 warhuts, etc) plus those shipments are pretty good anyways if the game is long drawn.
posted 02-13-07 07:53 PM EDT (US)     14 / 96  
3 TP's is a great with a 2-3 Trade post map.
posted 02-13-07 07:55 PM EDT (US)     15 / 96  
good guide smear


ANGLR FTW!!!


ESO: empirejoao3
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"You know the world is going crazy when the best golfer in the world is black, the best rapper is white, and the tallest guy in the NBA is Chinese" LOL!!!
posted 02-13-07 08:03 PM EDT (US)     16 / 96  

Quote:

Lol Seph you've never had a problem because your a 2200 major general xD Seriously though I Really dont like to FF vs a Port If you could find me a record of you beating a legit port player like walker then I would belive you.

Nah, he has beaten me far too many times already!

Either way, I think that the Sioux don't do very well vs Portugal. I mean, it doesn't change the fact that Portugal is UP and thus has some disvantage, bu Sioux can't explore them like other civilizations can. First, their rush is very low on siege and not even that fast, so 2 Close TCs, 8 Xbows, 6 MM, etc - all of them can handle it. Unless the Portuguese player got a hunt screw or something I doubt it would be that great.

If the Sioux choses to FF... well, more based on theory than on experience, Portugal also seems to have a good chance. Cassadores with OK micro just beat every single Sioux infantry, and since they don't have Cannons their only option is to try to take them with Axe Riders or Dog Soldiers. IMO Cassadores + Dragoons > Wakinas + Axe Riders... Not to mention the late game economy. Still, I haven't played vs many Sioux!

But that's a nice guide you've written! Adding it to the TWC Strategy/Guide reference


ESO - Walker

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Retired from AoE3. But I do play AoK HD in Steam now and then.
posted 02-13-07 08:29 PM EDT (US)     17 / 96  
Yea thats why i do the all out club rush, You either catch him off gaurd and win or by some miracle win legit. or you lose. Its that simple. Going fort is suicide if the Port knows what hes doing. I still wonder if seph has played a port around his level with sioux and can get a recording xD

"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 02-14-07 08:48 PM EDT (US)     18 / 96  
i never thought id see the day when Smear would do something for any sort of a community, all and all though it was a very good read, certainly worth of front page

"to do anything but your best would be to sacrafice the gift"
posted 02-16-07 02:57 AM EDT (US)     19 / 96  
My two primary civs are Brits and Sioux. So this was very interesting. But I have a question.

What if the Brit goes BWKiC (Black Watch + 2falc FF basically) or even drags out Ceres629's old merc (mostly Jaeger FF)? And you presume they will boom?


Ceres 629's strategy guides

Vive la mort, vive la guerre, vive le sacre mercenaire.

0 A.D
posted 02-16-07 10:04 AM EDT (US)     20 / 96  
Well mate think about it. If they do that then they will have Black watch *Heavy infantry* and 2 cannon, Correct? You However will have at least 15 wakina, and 10 cav whether its axe riders or lakota.

Micro wins you the game my friend. and rushing in your cav isnt suicide if you micro your wakina on the black watch.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 02-16-07 11:23 AM EDT (US)     21 / 96  

Quote:

I dont think the 3 tp shipment would work because you spend 1 shipment on 3 villa 1 on 700 gold and then 1 on a fortress shipment to attack with. By the time you get the 3 tp's up the first battles have already begun usually. Although vs a port this might be affective to use as a 3rd shipment and then spam a huge army and attack the port.

Maybe as a second shipment for a slightly slower ff, but with a lot more shipments. You might combine it with Stagecoach and get a very nice eco boost.

Quote:

About your germans. Many Germans that i face i usually Cetan/Club rush because, Like you stated, There FF is one that can actually stop the sioux. I Find it really aquward that Port and Germany are the only civ that can really stop the sioux ff with their ff. If the sioux ff is done right of course. Its kind of cool in many respects.

Well, if Germany can do it France can do it too, and probably better. About the rush: Germany has nothing that can effectively handle it. I always resort to Renegados or Natives (on Patagonia you're in quite a problem).

posted 02-16-07 11:35 AM EDT (US)     22 / 96  
France cannot do it because they will FF and get cuirs/skirm

Rifle riders pwn cuirs and lakota/axe pwn skirms, not to mention i have wakina if he gets pikes or swiss, even if i didnt get rifle riders i would outmass his cuirs with my cav. so its gg.

Germany can do it because.. well im not sure. iv never had a german player FF against me cuz i always rush and pwn them lol. But.. from your description it sounds pretty hard to stop. Although with enough micro it might work..

As for the 3 tp shipment. That would delay your FF to much to be even called a fast fortress anymore. and the point of the sioux fast fortress is to smash and grab. Destroy your opponents army before he can mass as much as you, rip apart his economy before he can outboom you. If you delay to much then both people will be in fortress and you will be outnumbered and outgunned, but with a couple extra shipments.

It might be an idea to not send the 3 villager shipment and send 700 gold upon entering colonial and then send 3 tp shipment. You wouldnt waste a shipment and you would still get your 700 gold on time. Although your eco would be worse then it already is..


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall

[This message has been edited by Smear (edited 02-16-2007 @ 11:42 AM).]

posted 02-16-07 12:16 PM EDT (US)     23 / 96  
Actually, as Germans my main counter to FFs is to FF a bit later and take some TPs and Stagecoach (this doesn't work on all maps, on Auracania it seems to have the best effect). They will spend time getting to your base, so you will have approximately equal armies, but your eco is stronger and you might overwhelm them.

Quote:

France cannot do it because they will FF and get cuirs/skirm

Germany has got the same thing, but then with skirms+uhlan. Things only get better when they survive long enough to get falcs+WWs (which is still good nowadays, only MUCH harder to get to). That's why I focus on getting a good eco before FFing.

posted 02-16-07 12:54 PM EDT (US)     24 / 96  
uhlans? are u kidding. lol my wakina could take out your uhlans let alone my army of cav with the wakina ^.^ Germany needs a boost in that department.

Update: using these strats iv gone from 1850 1v1 to 2015 am trying to get to 2100 now.


"Smear's WarChief tumbles through the stage, leaps off of it right onto Mokon's car in front of the stage."
Full Guides:
~Sioux Survival Guide: The Last Stand
~The Tashunke Shank: A New Hope
Mini Guides:
~Sioux vs French: Napoleons Downfall
posted 02-16-07 12:56 PM EDT (US)     25 / 96  

Quote:

uhlans? are u kidding. lol my wakina could take out your uhlans let alone my army of cav with the wakina ^.^

That is my point: France is better than Germany in FFing.

Quote:

Update: using these strats iv gone from 1850 1v1 to 2015

Lucky you! hopefully you still take advice from a mere 1750

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