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Topic Subject: French Grenadier FF again
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posted 03-04-07 02:11 PM EDT (US)   
Ok I've been pretty annoyed recently after trying out french losing alot then went back to my other civs and same partern reoccurs, more detail in the I need help thread for anyone who wants to know for some bizzar raisin.

Anyway I had an idea of how to improve the French Gren FF to make it more viable in TWC with the emphasise on colonial figtings its rather hard to pull off. But if you can be in fortress by 7 minutes with two stagecoach tps a fair amount of cdb almost enough food to research the two gren techs and the church upgrade card about to arrive it sounds pretty good. But obviously this only works on maps with trade routes. Also doing this against a strong rush is obviously idiotic, against iro rush find out what type of rush it is, if its just the 11 tomma rush your safe to fort as usual just send 8 xbow before 700 gold. It may be ok to do it vs a Russian strelet rush Iím not entirely sure.

Again like the original incarnation of this strategy I got the idea from someone else, this time it being sephiroth, his two tp discovery start being the secret to pulling this off.

Anyway enough nonsense lets get on with the important stuff. The Build order and such.

The Deck I use for this strategy is

Discovery: 3 cdb, 300 wood, economic theory.
Colonial: 4 cdb, 700 food, 700 wood, 700 coin, 3 hussar, 8 crossbow, edict of nantes, advanced arsenal, team hand cavalry attack
Fortress: 1000 wood, 1000 coin, team ranged infantry attack, cavalry combat, fortress, 8 skirmishers, 5 dragoons, 2 falconets, tirailleurs, 3 cuirassiers.
Industrial: Factory Wagon, Robber Baron, Thoroughbreds

The Build Order

Discovery Age (copied from matts guide to French)

Starting crates is a big deal here. If you start with 300 food, 200 wood, you are in great shape. 400 food, 100 wood is slightly worse, and 300 food, 100 wood, 100 gold kinda sucks. Fortunately, the overall effect on the game is not major, so don't worry about it too much.
3 CdB collect crates, 2 go to hunt
If you started with 400 food, send all 3 CdB to wood, so that you have 2 on hunts and 3 on trees. If 300 food, send 3 cdb to hunts, and 2 to wood.
Set the TC waypoint to wood
Build a house
Keep waypoint on wood until you have 5 choppers, then switch waypoint back to food.
First shipment: 3 CdB
When you have 250 wood, build a TP with your explorer and switch all vills to hunts. This can occur anywhere between 1:30 and 2:30, depending on treasures/starting crates.
When you have 15 cdb, click the age up button with 400 wood politician. Click up no later than 3:40, usually 3:30.

Discovery to Colonial

Put 5 Villagers onto gold and leave 10 on food.
Second shipment should be 300 wood
Have some gold villagers collect the 300 wood when it arrives
Build a Second tp with your explorer
Once you have 300 gold put 3 gold villagers onto wood and 2 onto food

Colonial Age

Have some gold/wood vills collect the 400 wood and use it to upgrade the trade post and a church.
Set tps to food
Third shipment should be 700 gold
Build houses whenever you get the wood, you donít want to get housed and you want as much xp as possible
Fourth Shipment should be edict of nantes
Once you have your 1000 gold age to fort
Age using fast age up
Colonial to Fortress Research the furst gren upgrade as soon as edict of nantes arrives
scout what the opponent is doing is crucial now to know what to send as your first shipment upon reaching fortress ( 5 goons, 3 cuirs, 8 skirms, or 2 falcs)
Keep building houses you want around 80 pop before building a barracks.

Fortress Age

Research second grenadier tech
Set tps to xp
Start training vills once the second nadier tech has been researched, put them onto gold
Fifth shipment should usually be 5 goons but sometimes its better to send something else.
From then on its upto you.

Record Games

Dutch, Master Seargant, Great Lakes - http://www.savefile.com/files/548986

Feel free to comment etc

[This message has been edited by Destiny_Devil (edited 03-12-2007 @ 04:05 PM).]

Replies:
posted 03-04-07 05:32 PM EDT (US)     1 / 29  
Is this the one you used with me in our last game or was that the old one? You got the grens pretty fast in that game. Just a pity we ran into a bunch of musks/hussars with me having nothing but cossacks to protect.....

Congratulations Serge - Winner of the FFA Spring Series 2008
posted 03-04-07 05:44 PM EDT (US)     2 / 29  

Quote:

bizzar raisin

Bizzar raisins??


lol im jumby
posted 03-04-07 06:02 PM EDT (US)     3 / 29  
posted 03-05-07 11:31 AM EDT (US)     4 / 29  
Looks solid to me but I dont get the real point of this strategy.

I mean why would you FF as France for grens, one of the worst units in the game, if you have acces to skirm/cuir combo, one of the strongest unit combos?

posted 03-05-07 01:03 PM EDT (US)     5 / 29  
@ Voltiguer,

I'm not a pro at French, but I know that Cuirs can be hard to get out in their numbers in early Fortress and you don't usually have enough for a decent attack until around 9/10mins. Maybe I'm wrong, but I always had that problem.

Also, this start could be very helpful in team situations.


Congratulations Serge - Winner of the FFA Spring Series 2008

[This message has been edited by LordPatrick18 (edited 03-05-2007 @ 01:04 PM).]

posted 03-05-07 04:01 PM EDT (US)     6 / 29  
you would be surprised what a solid french ff can achive... i could probably get a 5 cuirs and 14 skirms by 8 mins with a 24 CdB econ with most market techs and then by 9 mins i would have 5 more cuirs and 7 more skirms so 10 cuirs and 21 skirms so like dopp said its a great strat but there is not as much relivance in twc as its mainly colonial fighting.

im just wondering what the times are of when you get the grens out and then what shape your econ is in afterwards


eso name: _XploSionS__

===quit due to the many many whinge and whine topics===
posted 03-05-07 04:02 PM EDT (US)     7 / 29  
Exactly, Once the nadiers are out you can switch the tps to wood buid more TCs and boom like crazy massing cuirs and skirms, its what I did except with musks instead of skirms as the onyl time I've used it the enemy just massed hussars.
posted 03-05-07 04:07 PM EDT (US)     8 / 29  
btw the link in ur sig doesnt work (slightly off topic but meh)

eso name: _XploSionS__

===quit due to the many many whinge and whine topics===
posted 03-06-07 12:29 PM EDT (US)     9 / 29  
Nice! Looks pretty good. Times?

Dopple, the advantage are 12 guard naders for 1500, thats 125f each, very cheap. They come almost instantly, train very quickly.

With alternatives to this strat, if you go for a foward tower + 200g politician, they can be sent to the forward tower. Can be sent even when max pop is reached/exceeded. I like to send them in with 10 pikes and 6 skirms but theres lots of variations for it (such as this one). One of the most successful strats I've ever used.


Previously known as MoNo Ager
posted 03-08-07 05:23 PM EDT (US)     10 / 29  
Thanks george, this strat is still less viable then in vanilla even with the new bo. Does stophon still come here?, if so I'd like to see what he says about this.

Also I've got a rec of an unrated game vs a 1st lt (I think may have been lower)were I do this and you'll see my worst hour of stratrgy ever. As normally what makes up for my lack of skill and horrible age times (why the hell can't I get them to normal speed no matter how hard I practice) is my excellent strategy . So if someone wants me to post that tell me how and I'll do it (me forgot).

p.s.I've recently inspired joe to try a bit of french so when he gets time I've requested he rec his games doing this so that I can use them giving him proper credit of course, so thats something to look for.

posted 03-08-07 07:23 PM EDT (US)     11 / 29  
cool, I've been waiting for this...
posted 03-08-07 08:19 PM EDT (US)     12 / 29  
Losing as France? O_o

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 03-12-07 04:04 PM EDT (US)     13 / 29  
Ok got a record game of me playing against a dutch master seargant on great lakes. I know he's not rated that high but I thought its better than nothing, he's dutch anyway inflates his rating to 1st lt lol. Any reasonable comments welcome. I realise half the time I forgot to keep up cdb production so no need to say that lol.
posted 03-12-07 04:30 PM EDT (US)     14 / 29  
no man, the fact that hes a ducth DEFLATES his rating.
posted 03-12-07 04:43 PM EDT (US)     15 / 29  
This isn't a viable strat unl ess you are facing a Dutch player IMO (fast FF and get banks down), otherwise cuirs+skirms is so much more reliable and more powerful.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 03-12-07 06:32 PM EDT (US)     16 / 29  
d53man were have you been since twc came out, hiding under a rock? in twc dutch are the strongest civ easily.

and brtn, the sad truth is your right, I liked vanilla so much more because fast fortressing was safe now its rarely viable.

posted 03-12-07 08:01 PM EDT (US)     17 / 29  
I'm glad the era of pure FFing is out the door, that was boring.

Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
posted 03-12-07 08:19 PM EDT (US)     18 / 29  
Precisely Mark, the fact that Dutch lamers play such an OP civ means that what their power rating claims is their actual skill level is far above what it truly is... least I think thats what d53man meant...
posted 03-13-07 12:00 PM EDT (US)     19 / 29  
oh yes and pure rushing is alot more interesting :/

now a ff is no longer viable, its only semi ff ( I use the term ff lightly here) or rushing, each strategy should be as close to as viable as each other as possible. I'd like the see the ff boosted to make it properly viable but not overboost it as that would lead us back to colonial age being redundant.

posted 03-13-07 12:21 PM EDT (US)     20 / 29  
Sounds good. But, if you get rushed you could be destroyed pretty easily.
posted 03-13-07 12:21 PM EDT (US)     21 / 29  
I like that someone finally made some nice French strats.


I would like to see booms become viable though.


"No Rush games are the AoE3 version of the special olympics". ~ Ender_Ward
There are no stupid questions, only stupid people
posted 03-13-07 12:41 PM EDT (US)     22 / 29  
I like it how it's now: It's doable but every civ (except maybe Germany) has a rush powerful enough to stop it from happening (except Iro/Spain ones)
posted 03-13-07 05:36 PM EDT (US)     23 / 29  
the ff still needs to be boosted slightly, no idea how it should be done but I'm sure someone can come up with a boost that doesn't make it op but makes it viable.

*points out the again part to braenn*
I could of easily made major (and probably higher) using this strategy in vanilla but I started to get bored of it and quit aoe untilt wc came out.

posted 03-13-07 05:41 PM EDT (US)     24 / 29  

Quote:

the ff still needs to be boosted slightly

I don't see why. I'm already encountering more FFs than rushes.

posted 03-13-07 07:42 PM EDT (US)     25 / 29  
Rushing isn't more interesting than FFing, colonial warfare and the probabilty of FFing OR rushing OR an age2 boom OR colonial battles is what we want, not the ability to predict your enemies strategy without scouting because only one strategy works.

In terms of strategy balance, it's fine right now. Plenty of chances to FF, rush, boom, ect.


Gameranger: _NiGhThAwK_
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