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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Strategy Central » what do you do against rutyers?
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Topic Subject:what do you do against rutyers?
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-17-08 06:53 PM EDT (US)         
I'm an ottoman player and was playing a dutch and was shocked at the rutyer's power (I rushed his team mate and destroyed him and my team mate rudely left) so it was just 2 people I made jannies against the rutyers and they worked well, but when the falconets came my jans dropped like stones... any recommendations?
AuthorReplies:
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-17-08 07:07 PM EDT (US)     1 / 23       
Abus(e) guns.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Pandar
Skirmisher
posted 05-17-08 07:16 PM EDT (US)     2 / 23       
Like Kivlov said, abus's. Then have HC nearby to take out falcs.
XxTakeo_OxX
Skirmisher
posted 05-17-08 08:43 PM EDT (US)     3 / 23       
I have to agree with headcase in this one to. Seems like albus is the only way. However, if its on an open field would it not be faster to make a rush with hussars?

"Sport,"Rand said abruptly. I might as well see where this leads. I agree.
Giskard are you calling me a retard?
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-17-08 10:40 PM EDT (US)     4 / 23       
Yes, rush Ruyters with Hussars. Awesome move! :P

Having a couple culverin on hand never hurt anyone, but if you can push the ruyters away a bit with your abus guns, rushing in with the Hussars could work, but I'd still just be lame with Abus, spread them out so they dont get worked by the falcs and let them own.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan

[This message has been edited by LordKivlov (edited 05-17-2008 @ 10:41 PM).]

XxTakeo_OxX
Skirmisher
posted 05-17-08 10:59 PM EDT (US)     5 / 23       
Sorry you misunderstood me. I meant rush the canons with the hussars. Since there cheaper and faster then culverins. But of course im just a conscript so dont take my word for it.

"Sport,"Rand said abruptly. I might as well see where this leads. I agree.
Giskard are you calling me a retard?
Limache
Skirmisher
posted 05-17-08 11:10 PM EDT (US)     6 / 23       
How come your topic says "how do you fight against Ruyters?" but your question is asking about falconets?
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-17-08 11:55 PM EDT (US)     7 / 23       
Sorry you misunderstood me.
No I know what you meant, but attacking the Falconets is essentially rushing head long into Ruyters.\
How come your topic says "how do you fight against Ruyters?" but your question is asking about falconets?
It's asking what to do about Ruyter/Falc spam. Generally you just wanna go LI* and something that will kill the falcs quickly. A couple culverin would do nicely, backed by Abus and Jans.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-18-08 01:23 AM EDT (US)     8 / 23       
k... I actually didn't think of using abus guns but i guess the y will work since rutyers are ranged calvary. (the question concerned the rutyer falconet combo). I was getting owned because I sent jannies in melee mode up to the cannons which works well but then the rutyers kill them lol.
XxTakeo_OxX
Skirmisher
posted 05-18-08 02:57 AM EDT (US)     9 / 23       
Um.. well if you had half a brain then you would sorta attack from the back or in an angle that avoids the rutyers. Im not suggesting in making 100 hussars and rush the canons. Im suggesting making 5 or 6 suicide attackers when you feel that the canons are expose. However i agree that the better choice
would be abus cause hussars will only work in some situations.
Also he might have skirms ready to back up his rutyers so it would be usefull to have a stable ot two around.

*trembles* please dont comment on this post LordKivlov

<3 o_Ox

"Sport,"Rand said abruptly. I might as well see where this leads. I agree.
Giskard are you calling me a retard?
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-18-08 07:50 AM EDT (US)     10 / 23       
*trembles* please dont comment on this post LordKivlov
Sorry
well if you had half a brain then you would sorta attack from the back or in an angle that avoids the rutyers.
99.9% of the time, the Ruyters will be behind the Falconets in a defencive position until they see Horses or Culverin then they move in to protect them by standing on top of them (Cavalry) or bum rushing the Culverin while the Falcs just continue to obliterate any infantry they can. It's a very hard combo to beat unless you yourself can spam Ruyters or Dragoons as Cavalry Archers just don't cut it in this situation.

Just remember, even with the damage change, Abus(e) guns still deal siege damage, and a falconet is a pretty flimsy cannon.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-18-08 01:42 PM EDT (US)     11 / 23       
okay next time I'll spam abus guns ...


about rushing at with hussars I didn't try because it wouldn't have been effective since the falconets were surrounded by rutyers...
XxTakeo_OxX
Skirmisher
posted 05-20-08 03:40 AM EDT (US)     12 / 23       
Right, i get it, i lose, but IT WAS JUST a suggestion. Speaking of suggestions how about a team of cav archers to take out the canons?

joking

"Sport,"Rand said abruptly. I might as well see where this leads. I agree.
Giskard are you calling me a retard?
nidhog_slayer
Skirmisher
posted 05-20-08 04:08 AM EDT (US)     13 / 23       
Abus guns take falcs out fine if enemy doesn't have +4 of them, and you dont have all your abus piled together so they would take all the splash damage..
Pills23
Skirmisher
posted 05-29-08 09:59 PM EDT (US)     14 / 23       
I usually play Ports, and goons can clean them up nicely.

It tends to work better earlier, before the dutch get OP
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-29-08 10:29 PM EDT (US)     15 / 23       
crazy as this may sound, cav archer is going to work.

cav archer has a lot more HP than abus, does good damage to falc, beat ruyter on cost, and are not venerable to hussars and falcs.

to make it more effective, you can mix some abus into the cav archer army, they can dash out decent damage and hard for your opponent to make the right amount of hussars to cost effectively take them out
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-30-08 00:40 AM EDT (US)     16 / 23       
wow.... are you joking? cav archers against rutyers and falconets? that sounds completely bizarre lol... aren't rutyers better than cav archers though?
ultimitsu
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-08 00:48 AM EDT (US)     17 / 23       
no.

105 res vs 160 res
140 hp vs 265 hp
14 att vs 13x2 att


ruyter performs better in small numbers, but in team games where you often end up with large number of units stand still and shoot, cav archer performs better.


note ruyter get extra 10% upgrade in age4, wheres only russian cav archer get that same 10%, and otto cav archer dont. however because cav archer is classed as archer, and there are several native techs improve "archers", they should benefit cav archer.

[This message has been edited by ultimitsu (edited 05-30-2008 @ 01:01 AM).]

TheRomans
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-08 09:16 AM EDT (US)     18 / 23       
ruyter performs better in small numbers, but in team games where you often end up with large number of units stand still and shoot, cav archer performs better.


note ruyter get extra 10% upgrade in age4, wheres only russian cav archer get that same 10%, and otto cav archer dont. however because cav archer is classed as archer, and there are several native techs improve "archers", they should benefit cav archer.
I agree with ultimitsu that Cav archers will be the better choice here than Abus Guns late game. Play a treaty 20 game with a dutch enemy that spams ruyters then try to counter them with Abus Guns. You will find that Abus Guns are easily focus fired with their low ranged resist. They don't cut it vs Ruyters, Zamburaks, or Eagle Runner Knights that absolutely rape Abus. I don't think Wacko even thought about Otto vs LC when he nerfed Abus Ranged Resist.

Anyway. You will find, as ultimitsu said, some good techs for Cavalry Archers at native posts. The best 3 are Seminole, Carib, and Tupi for techs. The Seminole Bowyery tech boosts damage by 25%, The Carib tech gives +1 bonus damage vs settlers, and the Tupi give a damage boost, but I can't remember how much.

+----------+
| PLEASE |
| DO NOT |
| FEED THE |
| TROLLS |
+----------+

[This message has been edited by TheRomans (edited 05-30-2008 @ 05:30 PM).]

nidhog_slayer
Skirmisher
posted 05-30-08 09:41 AM EDT (US)     19 / 23       
10 hussars= 2000 resources, will propably all die in the mission to kill the falconets.

1 culverin= 500 resource and doesn't die on the mission unless enemy suicides some ryuters.
CrazyLunatic
Veteran Musketeer
posted 05-30-08 06:17 PM EDT (US)     20 / 23       
yeah well obviously in this situation culvereins are better than hussars since there is ranged cav around...
StevoPhilo
Skirmisher
posted 05-31-08 02:38 AM EDT (US)     21 / 23       
yeah well obviously in this situation culvereins are better than hussars since there is ranged cav around...


No cause ruyters counter artillery also. They have a 2x bonus against artillery. So culverins won't work very well either.

You just have to take out the cannons asap before the ruyters kill off your artillery or hussars.
LordKivlov
Royal Guard
posted 05-31-08 06:22 AM EDT (US)     22 / 23       
Doesn't matter if Ruyters have a bonus vs Artillery, you're not going to let your Culverin sit unguarded. If he leaves his Falconets to attack your 34 range Culverin with his 12(14 upgraded) range Ruyters, then he's just opened his cannons to be killed.

Proud Citizen of Sovietcanuckistan
Lord_Richjp
Skirmisher
posted 05-31-08 07:08 AM EDT (US)     23 / 23       
And culvs have lots of HP + 75% range resist.

My grandmother slaps harder than the Agra Fort shoots. And she's dead. ~ Ender_Ward

By the same token, if I attempt to operate the mouse using nothing but my butt-cheeks, micro will also come down to "luck." ~ Beatnikjoe
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