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Age of Empires III Heaven » Forums » Treaty Discussions » Treaty/NR Help
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Topic Subject:Treaty/NR Help
f_torres9
Skirmisher
posted 06-26-07 11:07 PM EDT (US)         
Yes, I know, everyone on these boards says don't play treaty or no rush games, and to be perfectly honest, I can't agree more, I think there boring. But most of the time there the only kinds of games available, so I need some help because I'm just not very good at them.

I'm a pretty decent rush player, but for some reason when I play no rush it just doesn't connect. I play Spain for rush games but I know there units arn't as strong in IMP as others so I don't play them in treaty games, I usually use British or French.

Pretty simply put, I just need some help on what to do in treaty games. And not eco wise, its more where to build and what kinds of units to make and stuff like that.

Appreciate it.
AuthorReplies:
Vrecje
Skirmisher
posted 06-27-07 03:31 AM EDT (US)     1 / 9       
Hey!

In no rush games, you have a certain range of where u can build buildings (a circle around your starting TC). That means no forward base.

However, the use of walls can make all the difference in the world. Make walls around your economy buildings (Farms, Plantations, Factories, even some houses). Try to have them near the maps edge and make an extra wall to protect them against raiders (especially russian Oprichniks). If you want, make an extra TC or a tower in the midts to save your villagers IF your enemy breaches your walls in a raid.

But that's later on. First, spread your settlers to hunt and gather gold on places far from your own TC. The enemy can't attack you other than with his towers. The resources near your starting TC can be gather after treaty expires, in the safety of your walls.

First spend your resources on settler-making and fishing where it's possible (somewhere between 60-99), eco-upgrades and aging. In 30- and 40-min treaty games you must have reached age 5 before the treaty ends. Preferably upgraded the units you are going to use to Imperial status and any tech you might have at your disposal.

Do not make any military units before the last 5 or so mins of treaty time. Be ready for war by the treaty time has expired with max pop.

Try to determine what your enemy is making. That makes it easier to counter with the right units. Place some Spies (the unit, not the tech) near or inside the enemys town in stealth mode or around your own to extend your LOS. The earlier you see the enemy come, the better.

What units to make? Well, here's a list of which units not to make:

- Crossbowmen (even the Portogueze Bestiero is too weak)
- British Longbowmen (unless you have the Yeomen card)
- Pikemen (unless you're Spanish, those Tercio Pikemen aren't that bad: x5 bonus vs cavalry, x3,5 vs light infantry and good against buildings)
- Cetan Bows
- Aenna
- War Club
- Macehualtin
- Puma Spearman
- Strelet (unless you focus on these, relying on continous spawn)
- Mercenaries (they take up too much pop space. A tip: if u have 1 pop slot available send for a Mercenary Army)
- Cavalry Archer (they just can't do what they are supposed to do: counter cavalry)
- Bow Rider (they just can't do what they are supposed to do: counter cavalry)
- Petards (they can't do anything but blow up buildings, which you won't need in the initial battle)
- Many cannons (any type) (a few is good, but they take up so much pop space and quickly become your enemies favorite target)
- Culverins (unless you don't use cavalry/Coyote Runner to counter enemy cannons)

These are just suggestions, of course.

Another strategy is to drop everything and make getting Spies (the tech in age 5) your top priority. Risky business, though. It doesn't help seeing the enemy come when you got nothing to defend with.


Supporter of Gay Marriage.
MusketKing
Skirmisher
posted 06-27-07 04:05 AM EDT (US)     2 / 9       
Pretty simply put, I just need some help on what to do in treaty games. And not eco wise, its more where to build and what kinds of units to make and stuff like that.
He cleary said he doesn't need help eco wise and mainly unit wise so half of your post was just wasted >_<

As French you would be clearly looking into making Cuirs, make sure you have the best deck to accompany them IE one containing the card thoroughbreds.
As French you can have the awesome army of 40 Cuirs and 40 Skirms which preety much over powers anything - what am I saying...the Cuirs do it on their own.
This is a good army and would be enough to take care of any units:
Gendarmes will beat Cav, Lightinfantry, Cannons.
(They will also probably beat Heavy infantry as well.)

Skirms will beat Ranged cav, Heavy Infantry and probably other Lightinfantry.

I don't really rate Brits late game, yeah they have an outstanding eco, rockets, uber hussies and decent musks.
But imo they are lacking a decent skirmisher type unit, L bows just don't get the job done late game imo. However, it should take out ranged cav late game, and if they don't, send in some Musks.


Wish I could say more, but I've just got up

"The better at AoE, the worse at RL" - Doppel
After someone suggesting to make a meatshield to fight off petards..."Where can I find this meatshield? Is it in the TC?" - Sjalle

"That last comment has earned you a ban Musk" - Solus
On realising I was on a 2nd account:"Quinarvy ehhh" - Solus

RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR - VERY GG
Mine and Micky's OPness
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 06-27-07 10:22 AM EDT (US)     3 / 9       
Most of the treaty games you will either be playing (or playing against) France or Russia. Be prepared for the occasional German, though, as FU Solingen'd Dopps supported by falcs or needlers can be a problem.

The critical resource of a treaty game isn't time, it's XP. Since you're not fighting, you have to generate your XP by building and training. Once you reach your pop cap and have built all your necessary economic buildings, your XP dries up. By this time you are still in early Industrial and may not even have enough XP to get your factories. A trade route helps, but usually you get just 1 TP if you're lucky. You may be able to send about 10-15 cards before combat. You can stretch this a bit if you build wisely and manage your time carefully.

A few tips on where to build:

Consider playing Nomad in treaty. You can then build your starting TC closer to trade routes, the shore, etc. to establish map control and get access to trade posts you would otherwise not be allowed to have. You can always build your 2nd and 3rd TC further to the rear of this (and even delete the first one and rebuild it elsewhere once your map control is established.)

Whoring the shore: Get a boat boom going to max out your pop cap with vills/boats and rack in extra resources. This will also bring you a little bit more XP which you can always use. If you intend to stay on the water fishbooming throughout the game, try to get a TC up on shore by your docks. Shooting the enemy's wandering fishing boats and warships will also get much needed XP since in treaty XP and cards are the crucial resource.

3 minutes before end treaty, send a few vills forward to chop wood near far trading posts that you want. You might meet up with the enemy's vills doing the same. Don't spend the first minute of treaty fighting over posts unless there's a crucial tech involved (Cree posts or Cheyenne posts for instance). You can then build a forward base at this area.

Walling up: Sometimes your starting TC will be far enough from the edge of the map that you have to go all around. Take the time to build triple or better walls and subdivide your interior with additional walls. Use towers. If you bother to send fort cards in Treaty, put them where you know you will have a hard time getting troops fast enough to save your eco, in the rear. Think of it as a barracks, not a glorified tower, and it will be of more use to you.

If you find yourself running short of time and need a particular economic card ASAP, make some dorks. Even 10 strelets might be enough XP to put you over the edge to get that second factory that you need to boost yourself. If you need that pop cap for decent units later, either delete them and make better dorks, or wait until battle begins and send them on a suicide mission. Just remember that when they die, they give your opp some XP to do the same.

Spies are useful. Use them. If your opp has lots of forts and/or TCs up (French or Ports or Russian) consider sending Advanced Hot Air Balloon instead. If you're playing Dutch go ahead and research Spies, and Blockade if rules allow (it's a gamebreaker if you can only get half your HC cards).

Build a saloon and see what you get. Mamelukes and Elmeti are decent, have good siege, and decent ranged resistance.

What units to make: Depends on what your enemy's initial army is like. The best policy is to counter your opp's initial army then and only then think about trying to break into his town. However, if you play Russia, French, or Aztec, you can get a head start on siege/raiding with very little extra effort. First army: build mostly counter units (hopefully with good siege) and a few dedicated siege units. A sample Spanish end-treaty army would be 30 pop worth of mortars or horse cannons, 40 FU rods, 2-3 culverins or additional anti-LI or some melee cav of some sort to deal with enemy cannons. After that build a spamfest of fast-moving melee units + siege. You want to get in the walls and keep gettin in before they have time to rebuild.

In team treaty games, consider playing Sioux and getting your ally to wall you. The siege dance with FU everything and the New Ways card (Pillage tech) will be a real nasty surprise for the enemy. You can crank XP out the wazoo at the firepit. Do this only on a water map with whales so you can fishboom like mad, unless your ally is dutch and can bankroll some of your more expensive upgrades. Suiciding their factories down with repeated tashunke raids along their flanks might be enough to equalize the economic disadvantages you will face.

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
MusketKing
Skirmisher
posted 06-27-07 11:17 AM EDT (US)     4 / 9       
Build a saloon and see what you get. Mamelukes and Elmeti are decent, have good siege, and decent ranged resistance.
Mercs in treaty :P

"The better at AoE, the worse at RL" - Doppel
After someone suggesting to make a meatshield to fight off petards..."Where can I find this meatshield? Is it in the TC?" - Sjalle

"That last comment has earned you a ban Musk" - Solus
On realising I was on a 2nd account:"Quinarvy ehhh" - Solus

RUSSIAN CIVIL WAR - VERY GG
Mine and Micky's OPness
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 06-27-07 02:04 PM EDT (US)     5 / 9       
Hey, 30 or 40 minutes is a long time, I get bored, start building random things...it's not such a longshot if you play Dutch man :/

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
Pale Horse
Skirmisher
posted 06-27-07 02:28 PM EDT (US)     6 / 9       
Don't ignore the Native TP's. That is free pop space for units, so they are important to control.

I like to stack unit and production time bonuses. Being able to switch to counter units and repopulate quickly can prevent losing ground.

Wood is a critical resource on most maps for most civs. I have as many as half my vill pop taking down all forward wood to deny it to the enemy early.

Building scout early on. You will be surprised where and what it might let you build forward. I have had maps where it would not let me build any of the TP's on the route, but there was a small area, on the far side of the route that it would let me build military buildings. Seems to be a radius around that starting TC.

Also, use warships whenever possible. More free pop space, and Monitors can help breech defenses more quickly with their special attack.

Use the pathing AI against itself. It will always run to a target, regardless of how long the path if it is open. Leave a maze of walls and natural obstacles like mesas, with walled bombard towers for the enemy to run through if possible. Put in choke points to string out the enemy and expose them to more damage.

NOOB'XPERT wannabe
Bastiaan
Skirmisher
posted 06-27-07 02:52 PM EDT (US)     7 / 9       
PORT LLAMA BOOM!!!
SahintheFalcon
Skirmisher
posted 06-27-07 04:29 PM EDT (US)     8 / 9       
I can't see how treaty is so difficult or complicated. Maybe I'm just talented at no rush games, but I find them SO EASY AND STRAIGHTFORWARD.

The last time I played no rush was like a year ago, when Ottomans still had a chance (there was no "treaty" back then)

Discovery Age: play discovery like a normal game, all settlers on food, make a trading post, ship 3 settlers.

Colonial: Ship silk road, construct another TP, ship 700 gold.

Fortress: Ship 1000 wood, build 2 more TC's and a mosque, ship 1000 gold, then age up. Start creating mills and plantations.

Industrial: You should be here by the 20th minute, if not the 18th. Ship both factories, then ship Acemi Olglan School. Start building military buildings and upgrading troops (DO NOT create troops yet unless you REALLY need xp). During the transition from Indu to Imp, WALL UP. You need 3, preferably 5, layers of OUTER walls to stall Gendarmes or Oprichniks. Max out towers (don't bother to ship that card that increases the tower limit, focus on resource rate boosting shipments). Make a double wall layer surrounding the factories, mills, and plantations. The walling is MEANT to confuse the enemy and mess up his plans.

Imperial: You should be here by minute 25, preferably earlier. Ship cards that increase production like refridgeration. Ship advanced arsenal if you can, and upgrade the arsenal completely. Start making an army (my favorite combo is 60 jans + bombards + a bit of anything else I feel like). Your forward base needs 5-8 barracks, 3-5 stables, and 4-6 artillery foundries, plus the fort. The basic idea is to be able to rebuild your army without having to queue up more than 5 units at any one building.

Units that should be FU by the 30th minute:
1. janissary
3. falconet
4. hussar
5. great bombard

Units that you would do well to also upgrade by the 30th minute:
1. abus gun
2. culverin

Other units like cavalry archers and mortars don't really need to be upgraded. Instead, focus on stockpiling resources (especially food). Janissaries are as amazing as strelets if you mass them. I have never seen an opponent push back a full janissary spam. 100 jans push 100 skirms back. Test it yourself (you'll lose the economic game and of course it won't work if you run out of resources).

Possible eventualities:

1. Ruyters/Halbs/Skirms/Falcs - if you already have 6+ great bombards, you should win this one if your janissaries support your army well.
2. Cuirs/skirms - toughest combo to fight. Mass janissaries. Try to defend your bombards, but don't despair if they die. Set factories to coin and create falconets or abus guns. Keep janissaries coming to strike at his base. If luck is on your side, you should be able to push through to his TC. That complicated wall system really helps here defending against raiding cuirs!
3. Cassadores/dragoons/organ guns - If you have like 40,000 food stockpiled, then just MASS JANS after your initial army dies. Have 70 settlers gathering food + factories. You WILL push the ports back. Your points will go down relative to his, but once you get to his economic center, it's over. The ports can't raid your well-protected vills. If you have less than 40,000 food stockpiled, fight a conventional war. You will still win.
4. Muskets/rockets/longbows - Use jans and great bombards. This should not be hard as long as you don't get bogged down; the brit economy is slightly better than yours.
5. Strelet spam - TBH I have never beat this because the oprichniks ALWAYS tear my walls down and kill my vills while the strelets slowly ground me down.

ESO Nickname: Eisenhower
Favorite Age 3 character: Sahin the Falcon
Unban James Lock!
As_Saffah
Scenario Reviewer
posted 06-27-07 04:35 PM EDT (US)     9 / 9       
One other reminder that people new to treaty games often forget. Get to imperial ASAP to take advantage of the Imperial eco upgrades for as long as possible before treaty end. Sacrificing a card like Textile Mills is worth it if replacing it with a 1000 gold card will get you to Imperial faster. Likewise with getting to Fortress (and additional TC for those not playing Ports) that is another eco rate limiting step.

One other thing. if your base is large and sprawling, you really MUST build additional raxes/stables in or near potential weak points. Crossing a large map with a large army is impractical especially if there's a lot of lag (which often happens in treaty games because of the sheer number of units on the map). You do not have the luxury of time when there are 30 Imperial Oprichniks bearing down on your flank. Also, for this reason, I would send Riding School and Fencing School before treaty end, even sending them before Cav Combat and Infantry Combat type cards.

Because of this lag, which really starts to become a problem in Fortress as everyone is maxing villager production, I try to have at least the first set of walls up before reaching Fortress, as wall building really suffers when lag is bad (gaps, vills standing idle around unfinished wall segments, difficulty setting path of wall by shift-clicking).

Crunkatog on ESO
Bart331 balance suggestion: aztec: remove civ
Voltiguer: Ender, Sioux in 1.04 will be a top civ, no matter how many layers of Sioux goggles you put on
schildpad on Elephants: ...their mansabdar unit sucks so hard it looks like a black hole
Crunkatog on Steam.
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